Photo shows Ferrie and Lee H Oswald together 1955 (Ferrie told FBI in '63 he didn't know Oswald)

Frontline ^ | Nov. 20, 03 | Frontline

[churchillbuff]

FRONTLINE obtained this photograph from John B. Ciravolo, Jr., of New Orleans. Ciravolo was also a C.A.P. member in 1955 and says he was in the same unit with Oswald and was standing right in front of him in the photo. Ciravolo identified David Ferrie, while former C.A.P. cadet Tony Atzenhoffer, also of New Orleans, identified Oswald and Ferrie in the photograph, and Colin Hammer, who says he served with both men in the C.A.P., also identified both in the photograph.

FRONTLINE located the photographer, Chuck Frances, who says he took the picture for the C.A.P. Francis also said that when he was interviewed by the FBI, he told them Oswald and Ferrie knew each other, but he did not tell them about the photograph. The executor of Ferrie's estate, as well as Ferrie's godson, also picked out Ferrie.

After the Kennedy assassination, David Ferrie told investigators he never knew Lee Oswald. "I never heard David Ferrie mention Lee Harvey Oswald," said Layton Martens, a former C.A.P. Cadet and a close friend to Ferrie until Ferrie's death in 1967.

But when FRONTLINE showed Martens the photograph, he identified Ferrie. "It does indicate the possibity of an associaton," said Martens, "but if and to what extent is another question. Of course we've all been photographed with people, and we could be presented with photographs later and asked, 'Well, do you know this person? Obviously, you must because you've been photographed with them.' Well no, it's just a photograph, and I don't know that person. It's just someone who happened to be in the picture."

"As dramatic as the discovery of this photograph is after thirty years," says Michael Sullivan, FRONTLINE executive producer for special projects, "one should be cautious in ascribing its meaning. The photograph does give much support to the eyewitnesses who say they saw Ferrie and Oswald together in the C.A.P., and it makes Ferrie's denials that he ever knew Oswald less credible. But it does not prove that the two men were with each other in 1963, nor that they were involved in a conspiracy to kill the president."

[_Jim]

I think your confusion is in the sense that 'not there' must refer to his not being there in an official postion or capacity; I have left places of occupation and retured years later to say Hi to those who were 'still there' even though I wasn't ...

See the diff?

[texasbluebell]

(YOU do know that that 'attack' was against site rules and may subject you to discipline - don't you?)

_Jim, once again I am going to object, as I did yesterday to you.

I am tired of watching those who have differing opinions treated as if they're imbeciles, and brow-beaten into silence.

You continually put others down by calling those who refuse to believe in the WC, nuts, freaks, oddballs, and then you criticize a poster's father who has finally had enough of all this?

And in fact whose own post was nothing approaching the sarcastic criticisms you make of others including me.

It's just enough.

GDD's dad, welcome to posting on FR. Sorry for the poor welcome some have given you.

[breakem]

The difference is irrelevant to my point. The investigators said they were not there together/at the same time. I have continued to make a simple point which you try to waffle around. THE INVESTIGATOR WAS EITHER WRONG OR LYING.

[_Jim]

Personal attacks are prohibited and spelled out pretty clearly in the rules - do you not recall this?

[_Jim]

The investigators said they were not there together at the same time.

It's a matter of you not understanding the terminology it looks like. I think I tried my best to show examples, much more I can't do ...

[_Jim]

By the way, I think somehow you've become oversensitized to something here, and it shouldn't be. WHEN I refer to 'conspiracy freaks' (and there are conspiracy freaks out there) I'm referring to a hard-core group who write books and create HUGE websites on these topics.

Somehow, it looks like, you've lumped yourself in with that group ...

[breakem]

The investigators said they were not there at the same time. The picture proves that is not true. THE INVESTIGATORS WERE EITHER WRONG OR LYING. Plain and simple. No need to try to weasel around it.

I have made this simple point 5 or 6 times and you refuse to acknowledge it. This is symptomatic of your unwillingness or inablity to accept simple truths without twisting them.

I have no more patience to listen to your spin. Good-bye.

[_Jim]

We've tried to cover and reconcile this - I guess this is it.

We'll have to let the judges decide.

[texasbluebell]

Personal attacks are prohibited and spelled out pretty clearly in the rules - do you not recall this?

Funny, I was going to say that very thing to you yesterday...

I think "_someone else" has forgotten that.

[texasbluebell]

By the way, I think somehow you've become oversensitized to something here, and it shouldn't be. WHEN I refer to 'conspiracy freaks' (and there are conspiracy freaks out there) I'm referring to a hard-core group who write books and create HUGE websites on these topics.

Is that so? Well, it sure doesn't come across that way in some of the comments I've read coming from you.

[Brilliant]

Sure, it raises questions, but it's a big jump to say that Oswald knew Ferrie just because they are in that picture together, and then to use that as a basis for a theory that they conspired is even more over the top, given that there is no evidence of that.

[Brilliant]

No, I don't, because it was known that they were in the same CAP group even before they started to ask the questions. The whole reason why they investigated Ferrie to begin with was that it was known that they were in the same CAP group. That being the case, why is it so surprising that there was a picture of them at a group picnic? I'm actually surprised that there weren't more photos of them together.

[breakem]

You are addressing me on a point I have not made.

[breakem]

Who was it that knew they were in the same group? Frontline last week said the government did not know that. In fact they reported that the government investigation said that Ferrie was gone by the time Oswald was there?

[archy]

And Mr. Ferrie is important because.....?

Because of his connections to former FBI Agent Guy Bannister, once the Special Agent in Charge of the Chicago FBI office, who shared the office space with Oswald's *Free Play for Cuba Committee* location in New Orleans. And both Ferrie and Bannister had been employed at times by New Orleans mob figure and hotelier Carlos Marcello.

A former Eastern Airlines pilot and Civil Air Patrol officer, Ferrie was one of the light plane pilots flying folks between New Orleans and Dallas, and Dallas to Mexico City.

At the time, the C.A.P. was also a useful place for sheepdipping Air National Guard aircrew with experience on obsolete aircraft supplied to friendly- and in use by other than *friendly*- governments, such as the B-26 crews shot down over Havana in US supplied B26 aircraft with Cuban Air Force markings.

[archy]

2nd from left. Helmet and white t-shirt. Frontline did a blow-up of the picture and it seems to be Ferrie.

Look at the guy in the picture second from the right in the rear row. I think it's Underscore Jim -- an inerrant indication of somethin' conspiratorial.

Nah, the CAP folks of the period were mostly former military, with useful skills. The second-stringers and chair-warmers used in the Dallas job never even knew they were going to get their chance until New Years day of 1963, as backups in case the plans to hit JFK in Chicago and Miami failed or were uncovered- as they did and were.

[wolficatZ]

  

 

    

 

 

       Joe Pesci Rocks!

[archy]

Oswald must have been a pretty interesting 16 year-old.

My first thought, too. Oswald must have been a little adolescent commie-in-training.

Well. a little something in training with the *Civil Air Patrol Eagle Squadron*. But not necessarily a commie:

Is it conceivable that Oswald could have been a right-winger posing as a left-winger? Contrary to what the Warren Commission and Gerald Posner would have us believe, a number of Oswald's New Orleans acquaintances describe him as a right-winger. Yet his public activities - such as his leafletting events allegedly on behalf of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee and his appearances on WDSU radio's "Latin Listening Post" -- are uniformly that of a left-winger. Is it possible that Oswald had been using his left-wing stance as a cover for other activities? That is precisely what statements from a number of New Orleans witnesses - such as Delphine Roberts, Delphine Roberts, Jr. (see Summers), and George Higgenbothan (Hinckle & Turner, Deadly Secrets, 234-5) suggest.

Do we have any evidence that Oswald was capable of that kind of deception? Indeed we do.

Oswald's Intourist guide Rimma Shirakova says that Oswald spoke not a word of Russian upon his arrival in Russia in October 1959 (Norman Mailer, Oswald's Tale, 43). Retired General Igor Ivanovich Guzman of the KGB's Counter-intelligence directorate informs us that the KGB bugged Oswald's residences and placed him under close surveillance to monitor his conversations to see if he was faking his ignorance of Russian, as knowledge of Russian would be a tip-off to a probable connection to US intelligence. The alleged defector was very carefully watched to determine if he spoke Russian upon his arrival, or if he took to the language unusually easily later on. The KGB concluded he was not faking (Ibid., 71). Oswald states in his own "Historic Diary" that he spoke no Russian upon his arrival, and learned all he later knew by studying "two self-teaching Russian language books" eight hours a day in his Moscow hotel room while he awaited news of his citizenship status (Diary entry of November 17 to December 30).

Yet it is a fact that Lee Harvey Oswald spoke excellent conversational Russian no later than the summer of 1959, as evidenced by the statements of Rosaleen Quinn, who had intensively studied Russian with a Berlitz tutor for two years, and who found Oswald to speak Russian much more fluently than she did (Epstein, 374-5). Even as far back as February 25, 1959, when Oswald was tested on his Russian by the Marines, he scored just under fifty percent -- not bad for a supposed beginner, and already enough to speak at least the handful of phrases the average tourist memorizes before a trip to a foreign country. But Shirakova's recollection couldn't be more specific: "He didn't seem to know a single word in Russian" (Mailer, 43).

Oswald deceived not only every one of his acquaintances in the USSR but also the KGB agents who were SPECIFICALLY listening in for signs that he'd spoken Russian prior to his arrival in the Soviet Union. Why? If Oswald were merely the pro-Communist, pro-Russian young man he claimed to be, why would he not proudly display his proficiency with Mother Russia's language at the earliest possible moment? Would he not be anxious to be accepted by the Soviets -- both his acquaintances and the officials who would decide whether or not he could remain in the USSR? And would he not suspect that familiarity with their language could potentially facilitate this acceptance?

Oswald - whether through training or by instinct -- was capable of sophisticated acts of deception. Just as he played the role of innocent abroad in the Soviet Union, he spent the late spring and summer of 1963 in New Orleans playing the role of pro-Castro leafletter for media consumption - and somehow there seemed always to be a member of the media on-hand with a camera or tape recorder - while off-stage palling around with some of New Orleans' most radical right-wing extremists and arguing their brand of politics with college students at LSU and elsewhere.

"One feature of Oswald's five-month sojourn in New Orleans that has never been revealed is the fact that he made several trips to Baton Rouge in the summer of 1963. According to witnesses, Oswald accompanied a prominent leader of the White Citizens' Council and of other segregationist organizations to Baton Rouge six or eight times in July and August. These witnesses met Oswald, who was introduced to them as "Leon" Oswald. Oswald's companion, who was a personal friend of two of these witnesses, stated that he was employing "Leon" to do construction work for him. Oswald, however, was not dressed in work clothes; he was wearing what appeared to be 'dressy clothes.' Furthermore, Oswald and his companion engaged in discussions which included criticisms of American foreign policy as being 'soft on Communism' and of United States civil-rights programs. On their last visit to Baton Rouge, the two men were accompanied by two 'Latins,' neither of whom said anything to them" (Kurtz; based upon confidential interviews, "Lee Harvey Oswald in New Orleans").

Acting on a tip from a New Orleans researcher who requests anonymity, this author asked Dr. Kurtz if the "prominent leader of the White Citizens' Council and of other segregationist organizations" that accompanied Oswald to Baton Rouge numerous times was Kent Courtney, a close personal friend and associate of Guy Banister's and publisher of the ultra right-wing *Independent American.* Dr. Kurtz confirmed that it was (Interview of December 2, 1998). Courtney once mentioned to an associate that Oswald had applied for a position with the *Independent American* (15 H 720-1), something he later denied.

Is Dr. Kurtz a credible source?

Dr. Michael L. Kurtz is a professor of history at the Southeastern Louisiana University, Hammond. He is the author of Louisiana: A History, and Crime of the Century: The Kennedy Assassination from a Historian's Perspective, as well as a former associate editor for Readings in Louisiana History and a contributor to other scholarly historical journals. He is a two-time winner of the Williams Prize in Louisiana History, presented by The Historic New Orleans Collection and the Louisiana Historical Association, for his 1981 article, "Organized Crime in Louisiana History: Myth and Reality," and his 1990 book, Earl K. Long: The Saga of Uncle Earl and Louisiana, co-authored with Morgan D. Peoples.

The Tulane Connection

On January 6, 1961, Guy Banister drew up the charter for the Friends of Democratic Cuba, a fund-raising arm of the CIA-backed Cuban Revolutionary Front. Vice-President was onetime Oswald employer Gerard Tujague. The Front was an attempt by the CIA to unify the many dozens of Cuban exile groups springing up in Miami and New Orleans. The Friends of Democratic Cuba soon merged with the Cuban Revolutionary Front while E. Howard Hunt -- by his own account in his memoir, *Give Us This Day,* was the Front's Chief Political Officer.

A CIA document states that the Friends of Democratic Cuba folded after only one month (CIA #1338-1052; Weberman), which would mean that it was up and running just long enough to send two men named "Joseph Moore" and "Lee Oswald" to the Bolton Ford Dealership to look into buying a number of trucks for shipment to Cuban rebels. (Lee Harvey Oswald was in the USSR at that time; see Reitzes, "Constructing the Assassin, Part 2.") In two documents juxtaposed in A. J. Weberman's Web site, we find the CIA and FBI pointing fingers at each other of the issue of the late Guy Banister: The CIA reported that two of Sergio Arcacha Smith's "regular FBI contacts" were SA Warren de Brueys and "the deceased Guy Banister" (CIA #1363-501; Banister had OFFICIALLY resigned from the FBI many years before Arcacha Smith moved from Miami to New Orleans); while the FBI reported that "Banister was also active in the [CIA-affiliated] Cuban Revolutionary Front" (FBI #62-105198-5; 5 HSCA 129; Weberman). Weberman notes that a great deal of CIA and FBI documents on Banister are still heavily censored; an example is the FBI report that reads: "Banister related that he is a member of the Board of Directors of the Friends of Democratic Cuba, which he describes as a charitable organization chartered under Louisiana State law whose primary purpose is to lend assistance to Cuban exiles. In response to inquiry, Banister stated that he [CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED]. Banister stated that he did receive [CENSORED] from [CENSORED]. His purpose would then be to furnish such information to [CENSORED]. In addition to the above, Banister remarked that [CENSORED] is hired by him as a part-time [CENSORED]. He explained that [CENSORED] is interested in ascertaining the political sympathies of Cuban and other students attending TULANE UNIVERSITY [emphasis added]. This is of interest to Banister in connection with his interest in the Louisiana State organization known as the State Joint Legislative Committee on Un-American Activities" (Weberman).

Banister -- along with those whose interests he served -- was interested in infiltrating Tulane University just as he had Louisiana State University. Do we know the name of any one of the individuals recruited for this effort? Not necessarily; but we may have a clue.

The morning after Harvey Oswald's August 9, 1963, arrest in New Orleans for creating a disturbance with Carlos Bringuier and others, Oswald was interviewed by Lieutenant Francis L. Martello. Martello reported:

Oswald was asked how many members of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee were in the New Orleans Chapter and he stated there were 35. I asked him to identify the members of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in New Orleans and he refused to give names of the members or any identifying data regarding them. Oswald was asked why he refused and he said that this was a minority group holding unpopular views at this time and it would not be beneficial to them if he gave their names. Oswald was asked approximately how many people attended meetings of the New Orleans Chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee and he said approximately five attended the meetings, which were held once a month. He was asked where and he said at various places in the city. He was asked specifically at what addresses or locations were the meetings held and he stated that the meetings were held on Pine Street. He was asked at whose residence the meetings were held and he refused to give any further information. It should be noted at this time [that] during prior investigation conducted, while I was a member of the Intelligence Unit [of the NOPD], information was developed that Fair Play for Cuba Committee literature was found in the 1000 block of Pine Street, New Orleans, which was near the residence of Dr. Leonard Reissman, a professor at TULANE UNIVERSITY [emphasis added]. This investigation was conducted by me.

As I remember, Dr. Reissman was reported to be a member of the New Orleans Council of Peaceful Alternatives, which is a 'ban the bomb' group recently established in the city and had conducted meetings meetings and two or three demonstrations in the city. Knowing that Dr. Reissman was reportedly a member of the New Orleans Council of Peaceful Alternatives, I thought there might be a tie between this organization and the Fair Play for Cuba Committee.

When Oswald stated that meetings of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee had been held on Pine Street, the name of Dr. Reissman came to mind. I asked Oswald if he knew Dr. Reissman or if he held meetings at Dr. Reissman's house. Oswald did not give me a direct answer to this question, however I gathered from the expression on his face and what appeared to be an immediate nervous reaction that there was possibly a connection between Dr. Reissman and Oswald; this, however, is purely an assumption on my part and I have nothing on which to base this. I also asked Oswald if he knew a Dr. Forrest E. La Violette, a professor at Tulane University. I asked him this question because I remembered that La Violette allegedly had possession of Fair Play for Cuba literature during the year 1962. . . .

. . . I asked him again about the members of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in New Orleans and why the information was such a big secret; that if they had nothing to hide, he would give me the information. Oswald said one of the members of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in New Orleans was named "John" and that this individual went to TULANE UNIVERSITY [emphasis added]. He refused to give any more information concerning the Fair Play for Cuba Committee (10 H 55-56).

*-more-*

[archy]

You missed a couple of of my favourites:

[Ferrie, right with Bay of Pigs veterano Julian Buznedo/Buchada)

[archy]

No, I don't, because it was known that they were in the same CAP group even before they started to ask the questions.

Only as far back as November, 1963, 3 days after the assassination:

FBI Document #89-69-169

UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
MEMORANDUM

TO: SAC, NEW ORLEANS (89-69)
DATE: 11/25/63

FROM: ASAC J. T. SYLVESTER, JR.

SUBJECT: ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT

Re: DAVID WILLIAM FERRIE
JOHN F. KENNEDY, 11/22/63, DALLAS, TEXAS [REDACTED] Intelligence Unit, at 8:32 p.m., 11/22/63 telephonically contacted ASAC J. T. SYLVESTER at home. He inquired as to whether or not the gun had been identified and whether this office had any information con- cerning the gun that was used to shoot the President. He stated the reason he was asking was because they had received no request from the Dallas police or anyone; that the only in- formation he had was via the radio and T.V. concerning this gun. He advised there were a lot of outlets in New Orleans that could be checked as LEE HARVEY OSWALD had lived here. He was advised that I had no definite information concerning this and that all of our leads would be coming out of Dallas if they desired any check.

He referred to DAVID WILLIAM FERRIE, advising he was tied in with a Cuban movement; was an ex-pilot of Eastern Airlines; had flown planes into Central America and was cur- rently employed by G. WRAY GILL, an attorney. He stated he under- stood but he had to back it up that OSWALD was possibly friendly with FERRIE in view of his Cuban activities. I advised [REDACTED] that we were interested in any information he might have which would indicate that OSWALD was friendly with FERRIE.

BILL REED of WWL T. V. on 11/24/63 at 12:25 p.m. stated they were running a check of DAVID FERRIE of 3303 Louisiana Ave. Pkwy., formerly connected with the Civil Air Patrol and Eastern Airlines, who allegedly a few years ago was a friend of LEE HARVEY OSWALD and that OSWALD might be connected with the Civil Air Patrol. He stated they were looking to interview FERRIE who is employed by G. WRAY GILL but were unsuccessful and FERRIE had an unlisted telephone.

5 - New Orleans
JTS:lil