Posted on 10/20/2003 7:27:44 AM PDT by SheLion
So the American Heart Association is a front for the tobacco companies?
So the Oak Ridge National Laboratories are a front for the tobacco companies?
Those ARE the three largest studies made of ETS thus far.
And none of them found any statistically valid linkage between ETS and ANY medical condition.
Now what?
They still won't get it, though.
The new Flat Earth Society.
Then being a man of science, perhaps you could post your links to the pertinent research.
Then how do you plan on talking to them and swaying them over to your viewpoint?z
See above.
How do you plan on talking to me and swaying me over to your viewpoint?
After your Oprah-style breast beating?
One that protects private property rights.
The one we're allegedly operating under,
"Pompous Ass" isn't a diversion, it's a stance.
Good luck with it.
Sorry, friend.
Not at all. Every bartender, every waiter, waitress or cook has the absolute right to find a job at a place he or she likes better. Just like every other worker in this country. And if you and your kind hadn't forced YOUR likes and dislikes on the employers, there'd be MORE choice for everyone.
And I'm still a smoker - if you can get to anyone, you should be able to get to me.
NY Mulls Extending Smoking Ban to Cars as Protests Mount Steve Brown Staff Writer (CNSNews.com) - New York lawmakers are considering extending the state smoking ban to private automobiles even though smokers and bar and restaurant owners recently took to the streets to demonstrate against it.
The Empire State Restaurant and Tavern Association (ESRTA) organized the statewide protest against the ban, which outlaws smoking in all workplaces, including bars, restaurants and bowling alleys.
People in such western New York localities as Kenmore, Niagara Falls and North Tonawanda participated in the Sept. 15 protest, called "Taking It to the Streets." The following day saw placard-bearing demonstrators line up outside the state legislative building in Albany against the law, which took effect March 30.
"I think we're winning the battle of the press and public opinion," Scott Wexler, ESRTA executive director, told CNSNews.com. "Watching the news clips, both electronic and print, we seem to be getting our message across. I think they're presenting our message as a more credible message than our adversaries."
Speaking to the Buffalo News last week, Patrick Hoak, president of the New York Innkeepers Association, said the law caused five western New York restaurants to shut down completely and estimated a 20 to 60 percent loss in business among those remaining open.
According to a New York Nightlife Association (NYNA) poll taken prior to the law going into effect, 21 percent of club and bar patrons said they would spend less time there if smoking were banned. Nine percent said they would cut off all visits to bars and clubs affected by the ban.
"This ban is the first step in the death of nightlife entrepreneurship," David Rabin, NYNA president, told the New York Post. "Why don't we just change our name to Cleveland and call it a day?"
Aside from grassroots protests and letter-writing campaigns to state lawmakers, Wexler said the ESRTA had filed a motion for a preliminary injunction against the law in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of New York. Hearings were conducted Sept. 9, and Wexler said a decision was expected next week.
"I don't think we're going to get the preliminary injunction, although I think we have a very strong case on the merits," Wexler said.
Wexler said the ESRTA is hearing from its members that overall business is down an estimated 20 to 40 percent since the law took effect.
"Heck, a whole bunch of places aren't following the law," Wexler added. "They're not going to have economic losses if they're not following the law."
City officials said health inspectors have written 524 tickets for smoking ban violations as of Sept. 16. Thirty restaurants and bars have been ticketed more than once, according to Nancy Miller, New York Health Department assistant commissioner for tobacco control.
The New York Times Monday included a feature on drug dealers turned contraband tobacco dealers on the city streets in the wake of the ban. According to the article, former marijuana pushers make between $100 and $150 per day selling Marlboros and Newports in Harlem.
"A lot of people who were selling pot or heroin are now selling cigarettes. You can make the same amount of money, and you don't get locked away as long," an unidentified 25-year-old was quoted as saying in the Times .
Wexler said he was not surprised.
"Small businesses predicted this would happen," Wexler said. "It's a similar pattern to what we're finding with people finding a way to smoke. There was an article in the paper last week about an apartment in Brooklyn that had opened up as a quasi-illegal bar. There was another article last week in the Hudson Valley News about private clubs, fraternal organizations, Veterans of Foreign War posts and American Legion posts that were allowing smoking."
It all goes to show that people will find a way to get around a law they consider onerous, Wexler explained.
Still, lawmakers show no sign of backing off or weakening the ban.
"There has been no movement whatsoever," Wexler said.
Pending bills introduced this year in the state legislature include one banning smoking in the privacy of a person's own car, leading smoking advocates to believe a complete ban on smoking is on the way.
However, lawmakers claim the intent is to protect children by getting businesses to cut down on pollution.
"With concern for public health, I would be pleased (to ban all smoking), but that's not what we're doing," State Assemblyman Peter Grannis (D-Manhattan), the bill's sponsor, told the New York Post.
Supporters of the ban said they were skeptical about claims that the smoking ban has hurt businesses in the state.
"While there have been some anecdotal reports of some establishments losing business, the data show that the city bar and restaurant industry actually grew in the first three months of the ban," Miller said at a hearing at Pace University last week.
NYNA attorney Rob Bookman disputed Miller's data, saying that statistics point to a loss of jobs as a result of the smoking ban. Vincent Fyfe, United Food Commercial Workers Union chief, said his members estimated a 20 to 30 percent drop in liquor sales.
Michelle Dell, owner of the Hogs and Heifers bar in New York City, said the ban had "devastated" her business at the hearing.
"I may have to lay off workers soon. We need help before it's too late," Dell said.
-Eric
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