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Legal warning to church on gay stance
The Irish Times, Dublin ^ | August 2, 2003 | Liam Reid

Posted on 08/03/2003 3:53:01 PM PDT by AFA-Michigan

Clergy and bishops who distribute the Vatican's latest publication describing homosexual activity as "evil" could face prosecution under incitement to hatred legislation.

The Irish Council for Civil Liberties (ICCL) has warned that the language in the 12-page booklet is so strong it could be interpreted as being in breach of the Act.

Published by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, it states that Catholics have a duty to oppose the introduction and operation of legislation recognising same-sex unions. It identifies politicians as having a duty to vote against any such moves.

According to the document, Catholic teaching states that while homosexuals should be treated with "respect, compassion and sensitivity", homosexuality was "objectively disordered".

"Those who would move from tolerance to the legitimisation of specific rights for cohabiting homosexual persons need to be reminded that the approval or legalisation of evil is something far different from the toleration of evil," it states.

It also claims that allowing children to be adopted into same-sex unions would mean "doing violence to these children". This would place them "in an environment that is not conducive to their full human development".

Ms. Aisling Reidy, director of the ICCL, warned yesterday that the statement could be in violation of the 1989 Incitement to Hatred Act. Those convicted under the Act can face jail terms of up to six months.

"The document itself may not violate the Act, but if you were to use the document to say that gays are evil, it is likely to give rise to hatred, which is against the Act," according to Ms Reidy. "The wording is very strong and certainly goes against the spirit of the legislation."

Under the Act literature which is threatening, abusive or insulting, linked with the intent of stirring up hatred, is illegal.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: catholic; catholiclist; gay; hatecrime; homosexual; homosexualagenda; iccl; incitementtohatred; marriage; religiousfreedom; vatican
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To: nutmeg
Begayrah
61 posted on 08/03/2003 8:31:44 PM PDT by evilC
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To: sitetest
However, if you were to write a short treatment with the satirical premise of how unjustly maligned were Nero and Caligula, and send it to Hollywood, it might become the basis for a rather serious dramatic made-for-TV movie, with the straightforward premise of how unjustly maligned were Nero and Caligula.

You're right, of course. Which is why I would never send such a thing to Hollyweird. I'd make a book out of it and publish it myself in a form that made it obvious to anyone reading it that it was satire. ;-)
62 posted on 08/03/2003 8:33:44 PM PDT by Antoninus (In hoc signo, vinces †)
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To: sinkspur
As long as you'll advocate it be made illegal in every state, OK.

Barring a constitutional amendment, why don't not let each state decide?

This is the province of the legislatures--not the courts.

And not even the pro-sodomy majority didn't buy the "equal protection" crap slung by gay activists in the Lawrence decision. Only the increasngly senile Sandra Day O'Connor bit on that bit o' legal legerdemain sucker bait.

The only way to buy into the "equal protection" hogwash is to buy into the silly fiction that there are more genders than two: male and female.

63 posted on 08/03/2003 8:34:27 PM PDT by Kevin Curry (Put Justice Janice Rogers Brown on the Supreme Court--NOW)
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To: Paul Atreides
If they try to get that started in this country, just wait until the backlash begins

HAHAHAHAHA rigggghhhhhtttt watch the right just lay down over here and let the ACLU walk all over them buisness as usual unless they right has grown a set of gonads! in the past six months

The right has pandered to so many in this country and others it has to duck to get to their car!

Id love to see a backlash id help even but it would never happen like i said unless gonads have been grown recently!

64 posted on 08/03/2003 8:37:48 PM PDT by ATOMIC_PUNK ("Treason" How can such a small word mean so little to so many ?)
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To: Antoninus
Dear Antoninus,

"I'd make a book out of it and publish it myself in a form that made it obvious to anyone reading it that it was satire."

You'd have to make sure that not a single copy fell into the hands of earnest left-wingers, else you'd still see a mini-series, "The Hidden Torments of the Emperors".


sitetest
65 posted on 08/03/2003 8:38:22 PM PDT by sitetest (You mean marrying your sister doesn't make you... differently-abled??)
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To: Palladin
Lord have mercy...why are they silent, I'd be screaming at my preacher at the top of my lungs. I'm sorry, the bible is very clear on homosexuality...if the secular world wants to say it's okay well there isn't alot that we can do about it. But in our churchs where the Bible is still supposed to be preached we can.
66 posted on 08/03/2003 8:39:53 PM PDT by Blue Scourge (Corruption, lies, murder, lust for power...congratulations your Hillary Clinton..)
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To: Blue Scourge
This issue will likely be the downfall of many churches.
Apparently, the Methodists have already caved in; there is a Methodist church in Houston that has an exclusively gay congregation (yes - openly gay.... some would say "flaming").
Is it evil actively at work? Or just abdication of the faith by church leadership? Maybe both. Either way, their destination is the same.
67 posted on 08/03/2003 9:24:37 PM PDT by TheGrimReaper (o)(o)
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To: TheGrimReaper
Jesus and Paul both spoke and in the latters case wrote clearly about what would precede the coming of the Lord. Looking at what is happening now I can honestly say I believe we are at 11:59 on a 12 hr clock.
68 posted on 08/03/2003 9:26:53 PM PDT by Blue Scourge (Corruption, lies, murder, lust for power...congratulations your Hillary Clinton..)
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To: AFA-Michigan
could be in violation of the 1989 Incitement to Hatred Act.

They should just change its name to a more truthful title:

1989 Thought Crime Act

69 posted on 08/03/2003 9:30:20 PM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: Blue Scourge
I agree. And, as foretold, there are but a scarce few who dare to call evil by its name.
Sadly, it only takes a few highly-placed minions to destroy the fabric of society... the occasional Supreme Court Justice, for example.
70 posted on 08/03/2003 9:40:33 PM PDT by TheGrimReaper (o)(o)
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To: sinkspur
The Pope issued "orders" from the Vatican to Catholic politicians in the US as well as the rest of the world.

This is going to get real interesting here...Jefferson must be turning over in his grave.

71 posted on 08/03/2003 9:44:47 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (You are either with us, or you are against us.)
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To: steplock
"I think we really need to pre-emptly notify ALL of our legislators of ALL parties that if they attempt - or even think to attempt to copy this and the canadian laws --- "

I agree that we have a responsibity to do that, but I'm not too optimistic that it will do any good. Satan's power is rising in America because of her rejection of God, and while that is not true for all of us, we have obviously not done enough to counter it. Our children are being sacrificed daily either in abortion clinics or on the altar of political correctness. Satan is winning victory after victory in our courts while God's people are being driven into an oppressed servitude. Can we turn the tide? I don't know. We have to continue to do all we know to do, pray fervently, then put it in God's hands by faith. We are living in extraordinary times and the spritual war is escalating.

72 posted on 08/03/2003 9:50:26 PM PDT by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: NetValue
"I just cannot get rid of the feeling that this issue will divide religions and countries very shortly."

If there are churches that keep silent in the face of such abominations, or worse, ordain and appoint them to positions of leadership as is now happening in the Episcopal church, then it should cause a division. Perhaps God is drawing a line in the sand so to speak, and it is up to us to choose whom we will serve....God or an apostate church. To me the choice is clear although I don't know what that will mean for me in terms of how I will worship since I am an Episcoplaian, but I am a Christian first and will have to trust God's guidance. It is an uncomfortable place to be nevertheless.

73 posted on 08/03/2003 9:56:38 PM PDT by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: viaveritasvita
We seem to end up on a lot of the same threads. Funny how that happens.
74 posted on 08/03/2003 9:59:23 PM PDT by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: nmh
Anyone who takes God at His word, regardless of his or her church affiliation, can in no way wink at the practice of homosexuality being "normalized". This "warning" will not be limited to the Roman Catholic church. That is only the beginning. I can forsee the PC gestapo infiltrating churches of every denomination in the not too distant future for the sole purpose of catching priests and ministers preaching or teaching against this particular sin. I believe we are coming up against a terrible test of our faith and as someone else said, it will separate the sheep from the goats, but choosing to obey God rather than men will come at a high cost.
75 posted on 08/03/2003 10:13:11 PM PDT by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: Zack Nguyen
"Ultimately, I know who will win (I've read the back of the Book) but for this generation I am concerned.

Amen to that, and not only for this generation, but for those who inherit the curse upon the land it will bring if it is legislated into societal acceptablity.

76 posted on 08/03/2003 10:18:28 PM PDT by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: Puddleglum
Robert Burns is the national poet of Scotland.
77 posted on 08/03/2003 10:48:14 PM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: Antoninus
Good! Bring on the lions! Nothing will make the Church stronger than a persecution.

I don't want to suffer any more than the next Catholic, but better to suffer for the sake of the Truth than to burn a pinch of incense at Nero's altar.

I see these warnings of "possible hate crimes" as a mark of fear on the part of the humanistic republics of the world. They think the threat of the guillotine will silence the Vendée, so they're rattling the blade. But Robespierre knows his time is almost up!

If the forces of evil are running scared from the Church at this point in the game, wait until they see the power of the persecuted Church.

So, bring it on, parliaments! Do your worst, senators! Pass your foolish laws, legalize your perverted desires -- the Church of Christ and her Marian Pope will still be there to fling the law of Nature and Nature's God right back in your haughty faces!

This is a war we cannot lose. We might not all see its end -- indeed, I suspect some of us may end our days roasting on a grill like St. Lawrence -- but the Army of the Cross will not only survive, it will conquer. The last time they tried to wipe us out the whole of Europe ended up under the banner of Christ; the next time Christendom triumphs, it will spell the end of the Republic of Man and his false gods of liberté, egalité et fraternité forever.

We're not being targeted for any sort of hatred on our part. It's the love of Christ they cannot abide -- a love so real it refuses to call evil good or good evil. It is that kind of love that they call a crime -- the crime of Truth.

But the Truth will win in the end. Long live Lovecrime!

78 posted on 08/03/2003 11:05:40 PM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: Zack Nguyen
"the issue of homosexual behavior sharply divides between those that believe the Bible and those that don't."

That's what it really comes down to, but I don't think you can draw such clear denominational lines, for there are those within all denominations who are true believers and those who are just nominal believers, which is the same as being not a believer at all I think. And then there are the ignorant, those who believe, but really don't know what it is they believe because they have failed to study the scriptures. Still, I believe a greater responsibility will fall on the shepherds who fail to tend the flock in accordance with God's word.

"Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. " (2 Tim. 2:15)
"Woe to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering the sheep of My pasture!" declares the LORD. Therefore thus says the LORD God of Israel concerning the shepherds who are tending My people: "You have scattered My flock and driven them away, and have not attended to them; behold, I am about to attend to you for the evil of your deeds," declares the LORD. (Jer. 23:1-2)

79 posted on 08/03/2003 11:13:05 PM PDT by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: sinkspur
As long as you'll advocate it be made illegal in every state, OK.

Shall we abolish state legislatures while we're at it?

80 posted on 08/03/2003 11:38:52 PM PDT by Roscoe
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