State ban against online cigarette sales begins today

TheJournalNews.com ^ | June 18, 2003 | ALLAN DRURY

[Just another Joe]

New Yorkers who have been dodging the state's sales tax on cigarettes by buying their cigarettes online lose that right today due to a law that was passed in 2000 but has been bottled up in litigation.

The law, which is still being challenged by pro-tobacco interests, prohibits the delivery of cigarettes purchased over the Internet to a consumer in this state and specifically targets Internet sales. A violation is a class A misdemeanor and can bring a jail sentence of up to a year.

[VRWC_minion]

And at that point I start my own hydroponics tobacco growing section in my house and keep right on going.

Which at the level you smoke would make the per pack cost be way out of line compared to the tax.

[Calpernia]

What about the cig MLMs? The independent representatives aren't 'licensed' dealers. They are independent referral sales. The ones I'm familiar with meet FTC standards.

They aren't required to track shipments. They are referring customers. How does that work?

[Protagoras]

As a licensed dealer you will be required to demonstrate where your shipments went.

You just love requirements don't you?

The people who will deliver these things in the future won't be part of your beloved "licenced" dealers. They will be just like the people who deliver other prohibited substances.

[Just another Joe]

I said the nontaxable ways of aquiring cigs would be shut down when the smokers used it to claim the increase in taxes won't work.

Please show me where you said this.
I can't remember you ever saying anything but "Smokers' stink" "I don't like the smell of cigarettes" and "Smokers' should be shot."

[Just another Joe]

Which at the level you smoke would make the per pack cost be way out of line compared to the tax.

And I'll still do it just to spite people like you and the state government taxaholics.

[VRWC_minion]

Its the cigarettes themselves that are subject to the tax. If there is no stamp they are subject to being taken by the state. In that their are federal taxes on tobbacco at the source, they are tracked very carefully at every step of the way.

[Calpernia]

So, it is not the seller that is in violation. It is the purchaser. The consumer has the responsibility to declare their purchases.

[VRWC_minion]

Here is a pdf file for the use tax on NY cigs. Read the instructions and you will see that it applies to anyone that possess cigs

That is how it affects carriers.

[VRWC_minion]

The consumer has the responsibility to declare their purchases.

Anyone in possesion.

[VRWC_minion]

They will be just like the people who deliver other prohibited substances.

And they will become liable for severe taxes, penalties etc.

[Great Dane]

Will they open and inspect every package delivered to my house?

I am wondering if they are not already doing that, my daughter in Ohio sent me a bag of loose tobacco, along with some hand towels and a t-shirt, it never got here, it's the only thing she ever sent which I didn't get.

[cinFLA]

NASCAR dumps Winston; signs Nextel as sponsor.

[VRWC_minion]

Please show me where you said this.

Its something I have always maintained when smokers claim all the loopholes that will allow them to avoid taxes. The ussuall one being roll your own/grow your own , black market from other states, reservations, and internet purchases.

So long as the amounts a minor they won't atttract much attention but once they do the gov't will shut them down.

You know its conceivable that even if you grow your own the tax would apply to you because its a tax that is levied at the source and it applies to floor stocks as well.

[VRWC_minion]

Please show me where you said this.

Its something I have always maintained when smokers claim all the loopholes that will allow them to avoid taxes. The ussuall one being roll your own/grow your own , black market from other states, reservations, and internet purchases.

So long as the amounts a minor they won't atttract much attention but once they do the gov't will shut them down.

You know its conceivable that even if you grow your own the tax would apply to you because its a tax that is levied at the source and it applies to floor stocks as well.

[Saundra Duffy]

Can't they go to an Indian Reservation to buy cheap ciggies?

[Calpernia]

From reading that, I don't see how a delivery organization, ie., UPS, AirBorne, USPS would be applicable. They are involved with the use or sale. Only 3rd party delivery.

I DO see how that affects and import/export agency. They ARE involved with the delivery for sales.

BUT, IN READING THIS, it specifically leaves USERS from other states opened to this TAX. If specifically says, a person bringing unstamped cigarettes into the state (and city listed separately) and uses any portion of them, are subject to the city and state tax (nonresident falls within the language).

[Wolfie]

The big gun is the Jenkins Act. Once the Feds start enforcing it, game over.

[newgeezer]

Oh and how would I know whether the consumer is going to declare? For the example in this forum, the topic is cigs. So, the issue is the consumer declaring. How would it be my responsibility as a retailer to know whether the purchaser intends to declare an item?

Sorry, but I don't see how your questions relate to my post (the one to which you replied). When you, the seller, decided to market or sell or ship to consumers in NY, you're obligated to know the NY laws applicable to your products.

[Calpernia]

The tax law seems to apply to the user. See the PDF file posted above. From reading page 3 of that form, the tax needs to be declared by the user of the product.

And from reading that pdf file, I think the shipper is a misunderstanding in this above article that started the thread. Delivery organizations such as UPS/Airborne/USPS et al don't possess or deliver with the 'intent of sales' as worded. Import/Export companies do.

So, if a third party sells cigs electronically/some form of media...it seems the responsibility is on the user. (from reading the pdf file, not the article the thread was start on).

[VRWC_minion]

From reading that, I don't see how a delivery organization, ie., UPS, AirBorne, USPS would be applicable. They are involved with the use or sale. Only 3rd party delivery.

A user is anyone in possession. A carrier would be in possession. Look at the definitions of the word USE.