Bush to push for amnesty

Washington Times ^ | Saturday, November 23, 2002 | By Jerry Seper

[JohnHuang2]

The Bush administration wants to grant amnesty to hundreds of thousands of Mexican illegal aliens now in the United States, according to the new U.S. ambassador to Mexico.

Tony Garza, sworn in this week at the White House, told reporters in Mexico City that reaching an accord legalizing the status of Mexican immigrants

[MissAmericanPie]

In other words, the problem has gone too far for pretty fixes, there is an unacceptable number here now, they can't stay, that's all there is to it.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Amnesty? Sounds like we need plenty of "mnesty" here.

[patriciaruth]

You put troops on our border, if they are fired upon they fire back.

There will be a Kent State incident, and thus there is absolutely no way the majority of the American people will condone this. And if you think it can be sold to the public as a normal, non-overkill way of dealing with the real problems at the border, I believe you are kidding yourself.

Now there is a way some of this can be done that is acceptable, and it is going on now, and that is, operations to intercept drug smugglers. If drug smugglers are fired on, the public will accept that. Or if they are smuggling in terrorists at $30,000 a head, those people can be fired on.

But when they are bringing in poor Mexicans or poor Chinese, and bullets go astray and kill these people and their kids, then no, the majority of the American people will blanch.

I think a trained policing force, like a beefed up Border Patrol with teeth, that can arrest people without killing them is the way to go, and are trained to distinquish between the nefarious and civilian idiots. Soldiers are not trained to arrest people but to kill them and are trained to see everyone but their fellow soldiers as the enemy, and it is not good to mess with that mentality by giving them border guard duty.

You and wcbtinman may want to get together and vie for body count scores at the border, but my Christian vows don't allow me to join you in blood lust.

I believe the intercession of drugs and terrorists will give our newly invigorated Border Patrol shiny enough credentials in the public mind to allow them to also really start intercepting and shipping home a lot more illegals crossing both our borders (Canada and Mexico).

Frankly if you guys really want to intercept terrorists then the unpatrolled forest borders with Canada is the place you should go. There are trails there that the Soviets used to infiltrate people and if you took potshots at someone entering the U.S. illegally on those trails, you'd have a high likelihood of hitting a criminal or a terrorist, not a poor Hispanic slob trying to make a better life, plus the press would be a lot better if their bodies were ever found.

[Mo1]

Very good post

[MissAmericanPie]

Our troops are trained to kill and not arrest? Our troops have been turned into the cop on the beat, look at Bosnia.

Both borders need defending. If women and children don't want to be killed they shouldn't hang around with drug smugglers. The only danger our troops would face would be being fired on by cartels.

Let me ask you to remember something right after 9-11 when our troops were placed at border crossings, activity, especially illegal activity, border jumpers, and drugs dried up at the border for the entire time the troops were in position.

I'm afraid your blood bath scenario is just not realistic.

[patriciaruth]

If women and children don't want to be killed they shouldn't hang around with drug smugglers.
I'm afraid your blood bath scenario is just not realistic.

I'm not for American soldiers doing policing in Bosnia. I think that police work takes the edge off a soldier and can get him/her killed in subsequent duty assignments.

And when you put the Guard or the U.S. Army on police duty, eventually you get Kent State. Maybe you don't remember Kent State. Or do you think that American demonstrators should be shot down as well as women and children being smuggled across our border?

However angry you are, you can't sell that to the majority of the American public. And frankly, I'm glad that most Americans don't carry around the kind of anger that doesn't blanch at killing kids.

I think if we are going to prevail, it is going to be slowly and cautiously changing the Border Patrol administration, and slowly getting undocumenteds documented in an updated computer system with fingerprint ID's of prior arrested illegal alien detainees and felons.

And there may be a way down the road of exacting some penalties on repeat offenders, to end the revolving door.

But the libs have brainwashed an entire generation in our schools and universities and have preimminent propaganda rights to the broadcast news that goes into most brains, and the TV shows and comedians generally reinforce all this.

We have a tougher road to get the public on our side than you are willing to admit.

And why I am discussing this is because I think it is time to see beyond anger and angry "solutions" that won't work, and try to figure a course that has a chance of working even though we are way behind the eight ball at the moment.

[patriciaruth]

We can't even find the ones who have committed crimes and been ordered deported and we are going to be able to register these and make them go home after a couple of years?

Updated computers will probably help out a lot. And giving those computers to the Border Patrol and keeping Dem social worker employees at the INS out of the decision making and processing loop may improve the situation more than you expect.

Frankly, I would have agreed with you before 9/11 that we are fighting a losing battle and in fact hopeless. My approach before 9/11 was just to try to make true Americans out of as many of the children of illegals overflowing our education system as possible hoping some would come to hold a small vision of The American Way. Hence I was for the Kennedy bloated Education bill as a means to get our camel's nose under the tent in beginning to derail liberal propaganda education; like trying to bail out the Pacific with a teaspoon, I grant you. Still, despite losing the war of the reconquista here in California, I wanted to try to have some of the magnificent American heritage survive.

But I believe 9/11 has given President Bush an opportunity to maybe actually make small, incremental and meaningful changes in the INS and our open borders that might end up making a meaningful difference. It's a long shot, but I'm willing to work for it.

However, I truly believe that not being very stealth and cool and savvy about how this is done will lose us the opportunity. I truly believe that if we state we are trying to stem the tide of economic refugees flooding our country rather than just saying this new measure and that new policy and these new laws are to catch terrorists and drug gangsters and protect American lives, then we will fail.

[katze]

"Frankly if you guys really want to intercept terrorists then the unpatrolled forest borders with Canada is the place you should go. There are trails there that the Soviets used"

And while we're watching the northern border, 1 or 2 terrorists can slip through the southern, with each new group. I'm wondering if it is a coincidence the money from Bandar's wife went to San Diego; sure would be handy to turn over the money as one of them comes across the border.

Like you, I'm not for a bloodbath, but this constant stream of people illegally crossing our borders has to stop. Fox won't cooperate, since he's glad to get rid of so many people who don't contribute anything to his needs (revenues), so perhaps it is time for Bush to get tough with Fox.

While I'm not affected economically like the border states, my concerns are more from the terrorist standpoint, and I believe there is a real danger. Terrorists are serious as death, and they don't want to lose.

[MissAmericanPie]

I don't understand your hysteria over troops on the border. Psssst, that's why we have an army, to guard our borders. That is their first function and duty.

Your throwing up all these imaginary reasons as to why they can't be used, and it's silly. We were given a few weeks of seeing what happens when they are on the border right after 9-11. Nothing happens on the border, no invaders, no terrorist crossers, no drugs, and that's just the way I like it. Very frankly, I don't care how many eggs get broken to get that done. That is someone else's look out, not ours.

[WaveThatFlag]

#248

[MissAmericanPie]

Ok, patriciaruth, dear heart, you have made me put my thinking cap on.

How about this? The President gives a speech telling not only Fox but all the world that Americans have been compassionate and generous for generations, foreign aid, rebuilding Europe, taking in more immigrants than any nation on earth, we have the most liberal immigration policy, visa policies. However the American people have a right to control that immigration and reject those that flaunt our laws and sovereignty for our own safety, prosperity, and well being.

But now it is time for the world to show some of the compassion that has been extended to them by Americans, to Americans. We have suffered a terrible attack, we are still at great risk, we ask the nations of the world to co-operate with our need for self defense and accept our policies in regard to that defense, be they temporary or permanent.

Then tell illegals that they have only a certain amount of time to show up to have their photos and finger prints taken for our new "guest worker" program. If they are caught after that date in country, they forfit all future ability to come into the country under any circumstances, be it guest worker or citizen. But let me tell you right up front patriciaruth, this has to have teeth, the illegal has to know that it won't be a small matter of being deported then hopping back across the border again. That takes a military presence on our border, this little Homeland Security plan of putting about a thousand new agents on each border is not going to cut it. Not at all, Americans will see the entire plan as just a ploy to placate them and this issue is not going away, it is not only a matter of national security but the survival of our Constitution, and we all know it and will not accept half measures. It would be even better to have the illegal face jail time in his own country if he is caught in this one illegally. The skids can be greased with building Mexico's infrastructure, I'm not against helping Mexico get on it's feet, but all that must be tied to civil liberties and a more democratic government, not Marxist. Those illegals that are here and gainfully employeed, and PAYING TAXES, not making their money under the table, should be given some kind of worker status that allows them to keep their families here. Farm workers get temporary status, they go home after their contract is up and their families stay in Mexico. Those not in compliance are arrested by local police and the INS picks them up and deports them. Private enterprise can take care of transportation with a government contract to do so if that is a problem. Any American, wanting the job of an illegal must be given first preference or that American can file suit against a company. This takes a well funded INS, it takes manpower and equipment at both borders. And personally I don't care who gets kicked off welfare, who doesn't get their foreign aid, or whose borders in the entire world doesn't get guarded, to pay for this program. What do you think about this plan?

[MissAmericanPie]

Ok, patriciaruth, dear heart, you have made me put my thinking cap on.

How about this? The President gives a speech telling not only Fox but all the world that Americans have been compassionate and generous for generations, foreign aid, rebuilding Europe, taking in more immigrants than any nation on earth, we have the most liberal immigration policy, visa policies. However the American people have a right to control that immigration and reject those that flaunt our laws and sovereignty for our own safety, prosperity, and well being.

But now it is time for the world to show some of the compassion that has been extended to them by Americans, to Americans. We have suffered a terrible attack, we are still at great risk, we ask the nations of the world to co-operate with our need for self defense and accept our policies in regard to that defense, be they temporary or permanent.

Then tell illegals that they have only a certain amount of time to show up to have their photos and finger prints taken for our new "guest worker" program. If they are caught after that date in country, they forfit all future ability to come into the country under any circumstances, be it guest worker or citizen.

But let me tell you right up front patriciaruth, this has to have teeth, the illegal has to know that it won't be a small matter of being deported then hopping back across the border again. That takes a military presence on our border, this little Homeland Security plan of putting about a thousand new agents on each border is not going to cut it. Not at all, Americans will see the entire plan as just a ploy to placate them and this issue is not going away, it is not only a matter of national security but the survival of our Constitution, and we all know it and will not accept half measures. It would be even better to have the illegal face jail time in his own country if he is caught in this one illegally.

The skids can be greased with building Mexico's infrastructure, I'm not against helping Mexico get on it's feet, but all that must be tied to civil liberties and a more democratic government, not Marxist.

Those illegals that are here and gainfully employeed, and PAYING TAXES, not making their money under the table, should be given some kind of worker status that allows them to keep their families here. Farm workers get temporary status, they go home after their contract is up and their families stay in Mexico. Those not in compliance are arrested by local police and the INS picks them up and deports them. Private enterprise can take care of transportation with a government contract to do so if that is a problem.

Any American, wanting the job of an illegal must be given first preference or that American can file suit against a company.

This takes a well funded INS, it takes manpower and equipment at both borders. And personally I don't care who gets kicked off welfare, who doesn't get their foreign aid, or whose borders in the entire world doesn't get guarded, to pay for this program.

What do you think about this plan?

[wcbtinman]

Your reply(s) to me is insulting in the extreme. Nowhere, and I mean nowhere have I ever advocated shooting at or killing illegals. The only thing I said to you was that you should stand an armed patrol on the border. You will need to be armed for your own defense and the defense of your country. Do you think that drug smugglers and terrorists are going to stop in their tracks just because you tell them to? Why do you think that the military and the Border patrol, along with every other law enforcement officer are armed, many times with more firepower than civilians are allowed to carry?

Better pull your head out and apologize to me and MissAmericanPie for your moronic leap of stupidity.

Those who are like you and wish to allow a flood of illegals to continue, because it's 'inconvenient' for them to be stopped, have a very shortsided view of the future of this country under such assault. The illegals may only be looking for a job, but they are not entitled to break the laws of this country with impunity to get one. The US has a legal means of immigration, and they are free to take advantage of that process. Our govt however, has seen fit for whatever reason to ignore these laws as an inconvience. I've been to the border, and I've seen first hand the invasion that is ongoing and the resulting damage being done to my country. I'm going back soon, and I will protect my assigned area to the best of my ability, without any proclivity to shoot anyone. I will not however, go unarmed into the front lines of this unheralded war. Like any citizen of the militia, force will be used when and if it is appropriate, and only to the extent needed.

While I understand that there are exceptions, I little but contempt for anyone like yourself who panders to the notion of the 'poor little Mexicans' and would also allow our country to be infiltrated by sworn enemies just because it's dangerous for them to do so.

People like you are like people who don't vote: You haven't the right to bitch about anything. As far as I'm concerned, you are the very worst kind of traitor, the one who closes his eyes and sits back and enjoys the freedom that others provide while bitching about the manner in which it is provided.

Kiss off.

[nanny]

[But I believe 9/11 has given President Bush an opportunity to maybe actually make small, incremental and meaningful changes in the INS and our open borders that might end up making a meaningful difference.

From you lips to God's ear.

Now, I talked with Granddarlings yesterday, they are coming tomorrow and I have to begin cooking for Turkey Day. May we all take time to be thankful for what we have. Those of us who remember a different time - be thankful we had it. Those of y ou who only know this era - be thankful you have it. All of us be thankful we have today. May you Thanksgiving be a blessed and happy one filled with family, friends,football, or whatever makes your heart sing. God Bless You, God Bless America and Happy Thanksgiving.

[nanny]

Hey I like your plan.

Happy Thanksgiving.

[MissAmericanPie]

Thank you, Happy Tanksgiving to you also nanny.

[patriciaruth]

you are the very worst kind of traitor,

Looks like I am not the only one who misunderstands and then makes insulting accusations against someone trying to have a discussion.

[patriciaruth]

If you will allow President Bush time to get the new Border Patrol (split off from the INS) trained with sophisticated computers set up before he makes your speech, then I think we have a plan.

Happy Thanksgiving!

[Joe Hadenuf]

Have no regrets. Bush is a complete AH to allow this invasion of our country to continue. F all the apologist, and those that comment on how hard some illegal alien works. This aint the GD point! We are being invaded, while the Bush Administration aids and abets the F-ing criminals!

[nanny]

[If you will allow President Bush time to get the new Border Patrol (split off from the INS) trained with sophisticated computers set up before he makes your speech, then I think we have a plan.]

I am not sure we have that much time -