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State sues over online cigarettes
The Seattle Times ^ | 1 November 2002 | Paul Queary

Posted on 11/02/2002 10:59:44 PM PST by SheLion

OLYMPIA — Attorney General Christine Gregoire is trying to force an Internet cigarette dealer to cough up its list of Washington customers so the state can levy its steep tobacco tax on them.

The state Department of Revenue estimates that perhaps 40 percent of the cigarettes smoked in Washington are contraband — smuggled in from out-of-state, bought at tax-exempt Indian smoke shops on reservations or purchased by mail or through the Internet. ( CONTRABAND????)

"We estimate that contraband cigarettes maybe account for $250 million of lost revenue," (ahhhhhhh) Gregoire said. "It's lost taxes to the state of Washington, that goes without saying. It's also not fair to the brick-and-mortar store in Washington that's abiding by the law."

The lawsuit filed yesterday in Thurston County Superior Court seeks an injunction against dirtcheapcig.com, which sells cigarettes online from Kentucky, forcing the company to disclose its customers within Washington.

That would allow the state to track down the buyers and collect both the cigarette tax of $1.425 per pack and the 6.5 percent use tax — the tax the state levies on out-of-state purchases by Washington residents in lieu of the sales tax. (Good Luck)

The company bills itself as "The last refuge of the persecuted smoker."

A 10-pack carton of Marlboros sells for less than $30 on the site, compared with as much as $50 in Washington.

The lawsuit seeks to invoke the Jenkins Act, a decades-old federal law that requires dealers who ship cigarettes to customers in another state to provide that state's authorities with a list of customers every month. The law was designed to prevent large-scale tax evasion, and the state argues that it applies to Internet sales.

But Matthew Fairshter, the company's lawyer, argues that the law was designed to regulate the shipment of untaxed cigarettes from one state into another. The smokes sold by dirtcheapcigs.com are all duly taxed in Kentucky, he argues.

"They're not buying untaxed cigarettes, which is what the Jenkins Act is all about," Fairshter said. "The Jenkins Act does not regulate this issue."

Fairshter also argued that the state's lawsuit violates the Internet Tax Freedom Act, which protects online sales from taxation except where the transaction actually takes place.

"This company operates out of Paducah, Kentucky," Fairshter said. "It does no business in the state of Washington."

Mike Gowrylow, a spokesman for the Department of Revenue, said the Internet Tax Freedom Act was designed to prevent new and discriminatory taxes on Internet sales, not pre-empt existing laws such as the Jenkins Act and the use tax.

"This is neither new nor discriminatory," Gowrylow said.

In general, Internet and mail-order retailers can't be compelled to collect Washington taxes or provide customer lists unless they're physically located here.

That puts the burden of paying any taxes on the consumer, who typically doesn't show much interest in paying.

Enforcing the use tax is virtually impossible except on large items such as boats or cars that must be registered with the state.


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Culture/Society; Government; US: Washington
KEYWORDS: antismokers; butts; cigarettes; individualliberty; niconazis; prohibitionists; pufflist; smokingbans; taxes; tobacco
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To: Judith Anne
Then what will she do? Try to get people to smoke again? How? Lowering taxes?

She's an idiot. Now we KNOW it isn't about health care and THE KIDS! It's about the MONEY!!!!!!!!!!

21 posted on 11/03/2002 2:08:56 AM PST by SheLion
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To: SheLion
At 16. Me too. However, before we could get our hands on cigarettes, my brother and I tried corn silk and dried lilly pad stems. Don't do the lilly pad stems kids - they'll rip your lungs out.
22 posted on 11/03/2002 2:09:50 AM PST by leadpenny
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To: leadpenny
At 16. Me too. However, before we could get our hands on cigarettes, my brother and I tried corn silk and dried lilly pad stems.

LOL! Well, back then, there was a vending machine on ever corner. Of course, it was illegal for anyone under 18 to buy cigarettes, but they didn't enforce it.

My girlfriends and I would find a vending machine on a side street and put our change in the lots! :)

23 posted on 11/03/2002 2:18:43 AM PST by SheLion
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To: SheLion
It's ironic, isn't it? Washington State is showing much more interest in taxing the hell out of a legal smoke sold out of state - Marlboros - than an illegal one (pot or crack) actually sold in the state by state residents.
24 posted on 11/03/2002 2:21:04 AM PST by glc1173@aol.com
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To: glc1173@aol.com
It's ironic, isn't it? Washington State is showing much more interest in taxing the hell out of a legal smoke sold out of state - Marlboros - than an illegal one (pot or crack) actually sold in the state by state residents.

Well, not just Washington. Mayor Bloomberg upped the tax so high that a pack not costs $7.50!!!!!

Smoke tax burns stores

Cigarettes Up to $7 a Pack With New Tax/New York

25 posted on 11/03/2002 2:45:55 AM PST by SheLion
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To: SheLion
Hi there 'little girl'. When I started they we $.25 / pack. And to the other poster...when I was in Nam '67-'68 they were $1.00 per carton. By the way, She Lion, I just started stuffing my own about 6 weeks ago. Sure saves the bucks. Still trying to find the ideal tobacco tho'.

Nam Vet

26 posted on 11/03/2002 2:59:56 AM PST by Nam Vet
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To: Nam Vet
25 cents a PACK>! YOU MUST BE AN OLD BIRD! JUST KIDDING!!!!!!

Hey, not to get off of the subject, but MY hubby was in Nam same time as YOU!!!!!!!!!! He was up on a hill with no trees and fired the Holister. He is sleeping now, or I would ask him what the name of the hill was.

They slept in bunkers with black scorpions and had a toilet right out in the open so you could see incoming rounds. I am sure you are familiar with all of this. Were you army???

27 posted on 11/03/2002 3:12:18 AM PST by SheLion
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To: SheLion
I was Navy......River / Coastal patrol. Mekong Delta and Cambodian border. Ever heard of 'Swift Boats'? Mobile Riverine ? .. The Green Fleet? What they call the 'Brown Water Navy'. Kind of like the boat in ' Apocalypse Now'.

Nam Vet

28 posted on 11/03/2002 3:26:23 AM PST by Nam Vet
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To: SheLion
Was that a 105 Holister or a 155 Holister?
29 posted on 11/03/2002 9:20:26 AM PST by Dedbone
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To: SheLion
Well, back then, there was a vending machine on ever corner. Of course, it was illegal for anyone under 18 to buy cigarettes, but they didn't enforce it.

When I started smoking in the mid 1970's I don't think NY had an age limit. And cigs in a vending machine were 49cents. And that was in NYC - my my how times change.

I sure hope this internet company prevails against the State of Washington. But as another poster stated, the Jenkins Act is very different than the issue of sales tax.

When it comes to collection of sales tax you are correct, if a state is not seekingit's sales tax on other items purchased over the internet, they can not single out tobacco products for enforcement. But because of the Jenkins act tobacco excise taxes are very different. This is going to be a case of wait and see.

30 posted on 11/03/2002 9:42:39 AM PST by Gabz
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To: SheLion
We need to start electing state reps who have some balls and will be willing to force the state off of their tax habit.

I started smoking at 24. I didn't start because Joe Camel told me too. I didn't start because my mom and dad smoked (mom quit when she got pregnant with me, dad when I was 11). I didn't smoke because any of my friends smoked. I didn't start smoking because movie stars "make smoking look glamorous". I started because I always loved the smell of tobacco smoke on cold rainy air, and decided to try it myself. End of story.

31 posted on 11/03/2002 11:13:41 AM PST by Bella_Bru
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To: Nam Vet
Nam Vet, have you tried the Fred Stoker Sampler Pack of different kinds of tobacco? Try different tubes, too, because they do make a difference--presumably papers do as well. They're no longer online (maybe they saw the writing on the wall) but you can get a free catalog at 1-800-CHEWERS.

Reading those names of places you were gives me chills. Thank you for being there. And for coming home.

32 posted on 11/03/2002 11:44:24 AM PST by Max McGarrity
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To: SheLion
"Lizard King, you know as well as I do that they would have to go after the WHOLE INTERNET if they go after tobacco!"


As much as it pains me to do so, I must disagree. They no more have to apply the same standard in taxation of tobacco products to other products as they do when they enforce unfair advertising legislation on Joe Camel (RIP) and friends. What's a little thing like the Constitution and the principle of equality before the law when you have "THE CHILDREN" (be sure to pronounce as hysterically as possible) to save?

I don't think they will win this one in particular, but, then again, I never thought the tobacco lawsuits would get anywhere (the Devil made me smoke!).
33 posted on 11/03/2002 11:46:46 AM PST by Lizard_King
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To: gPal
the aspect of this that i luv best are the whining businesses which sell products which they know will kill most of the people that they sell to...Fxxk em and the states who want to be paid to help in the slaughter!

What "whining businesses"? Only folks being hurt here are smokers...you know, one in four of your friends, neighbors and countrymen? Where, by the way, did you get your belief that cigarettes "will kill most of the people that they sell to"? Bearing in mind that even the most self-righteous nico-Nazis only claim one in three. Just wondering if you people make it up as you go along...

34 posted on 11/03/2002 11:49:44 AM PST by Max McGarrity
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To: Max McGarrity
Thanks for the suggestions. I'll look for that. Right now I'm using Zig-Zag tubes and Bugler tocacco. It's OK but not what I'm looking for. Take care.

Nam Vet

35 posted on 11/03/2002 11:52:12 AM PST by Nam Vet
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To: SheLion
I will say again, what in he.. did they expect.
36 posted on 11/03/2002 12:03:10 PM PST by Great Dane
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To: Judith Anne
Try to get people to smoke again?

Why of course, they never really meant for you to stop, they just needed a good excuse to raise the taxes. :-}

37 posted on 11/03/2002 12:06:37 PM PST by Great Dane
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To: Great Dane
Prop A in Missouri on Tuesday is to raise tobacco taxes by 55 cents per pack, plus 20% on all other tobacco. I live on Ok. state line and won't hesitate to buy across the line or online.
38 posted on 11/03/2002 12:13:20 PM PST by phil1750
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To: phil1750
#38......... Don't blame you, get them where they are cheap.
39 posted on 11/03/2002 12:29:35 PM PST by Great Dane
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To: Nam Vet
Bugler?!? You poor thing....Bugler ain't fit for man or beast! Go to the grocery store pronto and get yourself a pack of Jester! (or Drum, if you can find it) Top's not too terrible....

But Bugler? Man...
40 posted on 11/03/2002 12:47:49 PM PST by stands2reason
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