"I'M ASHAMED OF THIS" Interview with a 'copter Wildfire Fighter.

The Lars Larson Show ^ | 8/02/02 | AuntB

[AuntB]

The following is a transcribed portion of an interview aired today on the Lars Larson radio program from Portland, Or., which is broadcast across the Northwest from noon to 4:00 P.M. pacific. There is little I can add to his exchange with the executive vice-president of a company that supplies helicopter service to the US Forest service to show the inept and dangerous policies of this bureaucracy. Please bring these disclosures to your congress people’s attention and demand the policy of silence and media blackout practiced by the Forest Service and environmental groups stop. Our homes, forests and lives are being destroyed and YOU, the taxpayers are funding it.

***** Lars Larson: [Our radio affiliate, KCMX, Medford, Or – The Morning Express with Garth & Rosemary, 880 AM] called me this morning and said Mark Lindamood (sp) has just an unbelievable story to tell about Carson Helicopter and some work it’s been doing for the Forest Service in fighting these forest fires. Mark, why don’t you tell people how many helicopters you have up there working on behalf of the public to get those fires put out.

ML: Well, today we have 9 aircraft flying on the Toolbox fire, Timbered Rock, and the Southbisquit Fire.

LL: …people should realize that at one point, Mark’s helicopter pilots were told to stop taking water out of a pond to fight fires….Mark, why did your pilots decide that was a good pond to take water out of to dump on that fire?

ML: First let me preface this with the Oregon State dept. of Forestry is who we are working with on the Timbered Rock fire and in my opinion, as having done this for thousands of hours and many years, the Oregon State Dept. of Forestry is by far and above the best fire fighting team in the whole nation. These guys are absolute professionals and they were working on TR fire headed up by Phil Hostetter (sp). They found a dried out pond on the Josephine/Jackson County line. They took a dozer up, bladed out the pond a little bit, knocked down a couple trees I think, and that gave us good ingress and egress for our giant water buckets……

We flew out of that for a day or so, it shortened the turn around time from 10 minutes down to 2 or 3 minutes. And they kept the pond filled with water trucks that came up from Lost Creek or Elk Creek, someplace and kept the pond filled……BUT, we were just on the other side of the US Forest Service line and we were within their boundaries. So they came up yesterday (8/1) and shut the pond down and they gated it and prohibited trucks from coming in. Their reason for this was…. we didn’t ask for permission and they didn’t have what is called a “Dip Site Manager” on site. This is a problem that pervades the whole helicopter industry and it’s part of the USFS big overall problem. So they shut us down and we went back to running about a 10 minute flight for water.

Now, that land we we're on…… was not a park, it was not a road less area, it was not a wilderness area, it was a multiple use forest service property. In other words, YOUR PROPERTY…..

They finally got a “dip site manager” in, who by the way, sits on the heli-base about 15, 20 miles from the dig site and he or she brought their paperwork in………but that pond is not opened up yet because they are still trying to sort it out and that’s about a day and a half that’s gone by that we can’t use that site.

Listen, it gets worse. We have to wait constantly for these “quote managers”. First of all they’re named wrong, they should be called “liaisons” because when they’re designated “managers” they interpret that in their own mind as “boss”. These are people who are part timers or they work for the forest service full time and work part time as a “manager”. This week we waited for two days waiting for a “manager” with our …aircraft sitting in front of the hanger in the Grants Pass airport 7 miles from a major forest fire that is threatening homes, burning up property, and certainly wasting and burning up our own natural resources. With the USFS we have to have one manager per aircraft…… Under extreme emergencies a manager can handle two type one aircraft. We don’t carry people, we only carry water…….all our pilots have more than 15,000 hours, they all in their fifties, most of them, and we’re waiting on some college student while people’s homes are burning. The worst of it was on the fire in Colorado, near Durango, we had 3 aircraft working along a housing development…….. The three aircraft were keeping the fire away from this sub[division]by laying down retardant. The Columbia (another company) aircraft had to leave in about 20 minutes for fuel. They called our aircraft, which had almost 2 hours of fuel remaining aboard, and told us we had to come in because it’s time for [our] 2 ½ hour rest break. Our guys said they didn’t need the break,[ they were used to flying 10 hour days every day] …….they said you come in and land or you’re going to be in violation….….you have to remember, we have to fly 15 or 20 minutes back to the heli-base, shut the aircraft down, stop the rotors and then start it back up again and fly back out…..by the time our aircraft got back out there the housing development was GONE.

This kind of garbage, this kind of crap is why the president needs authority to fire people in our Homeland Defense. ….these people in the USFS are only interested in their wages, their time off, vacation time, their retirement, THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT OUR RESOURCES…….we have to operate our aircraft when were flying for the USFS at our very minimum. We have a performance section in flight manuals, a limitation section. They take our performance section, which is only there as a guideline, and make us operate on the very minimum of that. …under the guise of safety, USFS is the only place in the world I can work that I’m forced to do the absolute minimum that I can do and get paid the absolute maximum. …..I honestly think now that the USFS doesn’t care about our resources, they only care about their next year’s budget. The bigger their budget is this year, the bigger it will be next year. Their answer to it is to hire more “managers”.

LL: What is it that the public can do to help you get some of the bureaucrats to get off the dime and actually let you and your pilots do their jobs?

ML: They need to get in touch with their congress people, senators. It’s almost like it’s so big now that it’s feeding on itself……….and I will tell you in my opinion, they are at least partially responsible for some of the devastating loss that people have experienced here. We wait…..sometimes 2 days for this “manager” to come, and that may not sound like a long time to the forest service people ……..but if your home is burning or your barn is on fire or you’re losing your timber stand, that is a lifetime of wait.

I want to go back to the 21/2 hour mandatory coffee break…….. I wrote for a rule change….to the National Interagency Fire Center, who hires us, and we ask to change the rule because our aircraft are designed to fly 8 hours. We have special equipment in them that we can fly 8 straight without landing….and we do it every day, day in, day out. J. P. Johnston (sp), the head of the helicopter portion of NIFC told us that we would have to hire a lobbyist …or hire their lobbyist to change that rule.

Our daily availability rate is $19,256.00 plus $2,414.00 for every hour we fly plus all the other fees. We LOVE the money we get. The thing is Lars, I’m personally ashamed. I’m ashamed of this……

[AuntB]

Oh, no not the capri's!! "Scortched" seems to be the operative word lately. I heard on local news a bit ago tht they seem to think they are getting a handle on the fire near Selma, at least they are sending some of the fighters home, with more on standby if needed. The weather is considerably cooler with a cloud cover...not that I can see it through the smoke!....PRAY for rain. NOT lightning, just r-a-i-n.

[AuntB]

I thought you might like to check this out.

[yoswif]

The USFS get's hazard pay if a fixxed percentage, 40% IIRC, of the fire is not contained. A couple years ago, one of the USFS's top fire bosses stood not five feet from me and told two trainees "when you get on a fire, the first thing you do is grab hold of the cash register. That means maximize the hazard pay and overtime." This fire boss travels all over the West working fires and training fire crews.

[SWake]

This thing sounds way cool. Where can we see a picture and description of one? How would it work in a prairie fire situation?

[AuntB]

Forgive me if I already pinged you. I knew you'd want to see this. We have no organized local FR group. Just me, that I know of, so I guess that makes YOU 50% of the group, neighbor!

[dixiechick2000]

Oh, I'll be praying for rain, all right!
It's cloudy up here and we are supposed to get rain tomorrow...I'm praying it will make it down your way...without lightning!

"...not that I can see it through the smoke!."

That's Taxhaber's second hand smoke...

[yoswif]

Also, USFS supervisors can't get a maximum job performance rating unless they spend every dime in their budget. Every year their budget goes up so every year they have to burn more trees to get a maximum rating.

[FireTrack]

Carries 1,000 gallons of water at over 30 mph through rough terrain that is turned into 20,000 gallons of product through a compressed air foam system (CAFS). Has a front mouted dozer blade, a 200 GPM Deck gun in the rear, 90 GPM remote controlled front nozzle. Built in back fire/burn system on either side, can pull a fire plow and carry over 5 personnel.

This first version is built around the M-548 vehicle. We also built several around the M-730 A2 which has pivot steer, 100 more ponies and much better brakes sorely needed decending long grades and slopes.

[Salvation]

The gentleman with Carson Helicopters stated further that he had tried to get the local newspapers and the Oregonian interested in this story, but they didn’t have the time to hear it. He also stressed that the USFS has gone "green" and that we are supporting our own downfall by supporting the big Enviromental conglomerates.

Unbelievable.

[Granof8]

188,000 acres - $8.5 million as of this morning on the Florence fire - is there an end in sight?

[Robert Drobot]

I'm going to copy this to the usual suspects.

The very least we can do is get the word out over the net, and on talk radio.

The American people are not un-patriotic, they are being lied to, and kept blind by sources they rely upon to keep them informed.

The Minute Men of Lexington and Concord had no idea if what they were willing to die for was supported by the rest of the colonists.

It mattered to them. This is all that mattered.

Since the end of the Eisenhower presidency, the government has been intentionally blind and deaf to Citizen pleas for sane governance.

It matters to me. This is all that matters.

Pray the void in national leadership is filled. America needs it, and America deserves it - more than ever.

God bless your stand-and-fight spirit, AuntB. If America had twenty thousand of you, we could eliminate the maximus assimus cancer at all levels of the government.

Hello to your hubby! Hope your both in good health. You're a hell of a team. We need you - both of you.

[fire_eye]

". These Forest management people need to go to jail for confinement and endangerment."

I can't improve on that notion.....

*I* can... but they'd throw me off the website...

[snopercod]

Contact this guy:

--James V. Hansen
Chairman, Comittee on Resources
Website: House Resources Committee
E-Mail: resources.committee@mail.house.gov

More information in this thread: Forest Service Blamed for Deaths

[snopercod]

Flaging you for when you return.

[madfly]

bttt

[Iconoclast2]

Bump. Good job, Aunt B. Oregon needs thousands more like you.

[WaterDragon]

The federal government is good at three things: picking our pockets; erecting massive bureaucracies; and screwing up any job it takes over from local control.

Individually, there may be good people among these federal bureaucrats, but the federal firefighting teams are a huge failure...costing us our forests and homes and even lives.

[WaterDragon]

The federal government is good at three things: picking our pockets; erecting massive federal bureaucracies; and messing up tasks it takes away from local control.

[Libertina]

I'm pretty ashamed of this too. Informative post, though. And we all appreciate the number given to contact Greg Walden. And BTW, what part does, or SHOULD Gayle Norton play in this?

[AuntB]

It's good hearing from you, Robert. I see you haven't lost that charm!