Shame on you, teen smokers' mom says

Milwaukee Journal Sentinel ^ | 8-2-2002 | LAURIA LYNCH-GERMAN

[goodieD]

There is no debate here, there is you getting angrier and angrier, using profanity against me, and then saying I'm not Christian because I suggest that you are a lazy parent.
Christian doesn't mean seeing something wrong and remaining silent, Christian doesn't mean being a doormat as you seem to think... We are not called to judge souls, but we are called to judge actions, and suggest corrections where necessary. You cannot talk about how a Christian should behave since you obviously haven't studied the Bible. Anyone who uses the term "judgemental" as an insult doesn't know what they're talking about. The view that children are will always do bad things so we shouldn't even try to raise them properly IS a leftist view. It's a defeatist attitude.
I am done with this conversation. You may respond, but you will be talking to yourself. Stop insulting me with profanity.

[goodieD]

We certainly seem to have a couple of "let's not hurt their little self esteems" types here. "let's not give our kids any guilt or shame or consequences for their actions"... If it quacks like a socialist.....

[Rebelbase]

"who is 18, and does not curse, drink, smoke, or have sex...nor has she expressed a desire to. She goes to church regularly, and participates in many healthy hobbies like arts and crafts and cooking. "

LOL! Sounds like me ex-wife till she went off to college.

[tomkat]

you're making a fool of yourself ...

[goodieD]

Hardly. It's fairly simple. Socialists use a "non parenting" method. It works like this. "All kids will do bad things. We should allow them to do bad things and not judge them so we don't hurt their self esteem. There should be no consequences to their actions. No guilt, no shame, no retribution. This will breed happy children."
This is a crock. It is because these parents don't want their children disliking them. It is because they don't want to actually work at being parents. They think if they don't ever put any limits on their children and give into every whim, their children will love them forever. It doesn't work that way.

[tomkat]

if my dad would've pulled some bullshit stunt like this, i'd have kicked his ass, then moved out.
if my mom had been the one to do it, i'd have told her to kiss my ass just prior to moving out.

this silly cow may well have just alienated her sons for decades to come.

'course i'm just a heathen who's brought two male children not my own back from the edge of delinquency,
so please disregard everything i've said as the rantings of one of the 'infidels', k ??

[Cable225]

Stop insulting me with profanity. ----- OK, then stop insulting me with the name-calling and pretense that you are so much better than I am.

Christian doesn't mean being a doormat as you seem to think... ----- I don't know where that comes from. Did I say you were acting like a doormat? Or am I the one acting like a doormat?

You cannot talk about how a Christian should behave since you obviously haven't studied the Bible. ----- I'm certain I haven't studied the Bible to the level you have, but I'm pretty sure I have a good idea of how a Christian should behave, or strive to behave. I may not be a Christian Fundamentalist, but I'm a Catholic. I just don't remember the part about how the best way to profess the faith being hitting someone with a sledgehammer when they don't agree with you. Let's not lose sight of the fact that YOU initiated the attack.

There is no debate here, there is you getting angrier and angrier, using profanity against me, and then saying I'm not Christian because I suggest that you are a lazy parent. ----- There is no debate here because you haven't acknowledged a single thing I've said. YOU initiated the attack. YOU started the name-calling. YOU were the person that lectured me about parenting without having the slightest knowledge regarding anything about me. Additionally, I have never doubted that you are a Christian, I stated that your behavior on this thread didn't seem very "christian". There is a difference.

The view that children are will always do bad things so we shouldn't even try to raise them properly IS a leftist view. It's a defeatist attitude. ----- I'd like you to point out exactly where I said that we shouldn't even try to raise children properly. I'm pretty sure I did say that kids are going to be kids, make mistakes and do things we would rather they didn't. I disagreed with the "put wanted posters out" stategy the lady in this article used because I don't think she accomplished anything worthwhile. Do you really think her kids are going to stop smoking because their mom put up signs? Do you not think these kids are going to be teased unmercilessly by their friends? Do you think there will be more or less peer pressure now that signs are up all over the neighborhood? And let's not forget, the kid in question went to his mother and told her what was going on. Do you suppose her "solution" will inspire him to do that again the next time something (alcohol, drugs, sex) comes along? These are real questions, and the answers are not going to be found by "because I said so".

Anyone who uses the term "judgemental" as an insult doesn't know what they're talking about. ----- "Judgemental" generally has a negative connotation. My pastor uses it all the time, I don't think he doesn't know what he's talking about. When you open up a dialogue by telling someone you don't know from Adam that they're a leftist and a lazy parent simply because you disagree, that's being judgmental.

Hey, if you don't want to respond, don't. I just think discussing the issue (i.e., the wanted posters of the kids) and the causes/solutions is more enlightening than being lectured.

You may respond, but you will be talking to yourself ----- I feel like I've been doing that already.

[Tired of Taxes]

I'm sure the mother tried talking to them and understanding them before she distributed the Wanted Posters. Obviously, considering that they've been smoking since age 12, those talks didn't work. It sounds to me like this woman's sons are out-of-control, and she is trying desperately to reach them. Every kid is different, and these two need some serious discipline. I'd bet smoking is not their only problem. It's funny how horrified people are by this so-called "Wanted Poster". I remember what relatives used to do when they caught their sons smoking: Make them stand there and smoke the whole pack. They were so sick, they didn't even want to look at a cigarette afterward... lol. Couldn't do that today. Today, we get upset over Wanted Posters. ;-)

[Cable225]

The mother (from the article) -

In the past, Paape has taken away things such as computer and television time when the boys have broken the rules, prompting Gavin's oft-repeated retort: "Smoking is the one thing you can't take away from me. You can't stop me."
Paape said she has good kids who can be a lot better if they give up their smoking habits.
"For the most part, they are doing the best they can. You can't expect them to be perfect. They're still kids," she said.

Maybe it's me. When I read that, it sounds to me like Mom knows these are teenagers being teenagers. That's why I wonder where the wanted poster thing comes in. Do you want them to smoke? No, of course not. But here's my question, what exactly are you supposed to do? Does anyone think there is a punishment available that is going to stop kids from smoking if they really want to?

I'm not saying give them permission, and I even agree with making it difficult to continue their habit. But I just see this poster business as a no-win deal. The mother freely admits she's trying to shame them, and I just don't see how that is in the best interest of the parent/child relationship. I know that I would remember for a long time that my Mom went out of her way to embarass me in my town, in front of my friends, and now, in the newspaper. I just don't think that's what a parent is needed for. Guide, advise, teach, set an example and help pick up the pieces when things go wrong, yes. Develop an adversarial relationship that takes years to get past? I just don't see how that's the way to go. Don't you want your children to know they can count on you?

That would be a long time healing. The kids is 16, and at 18 the issue of whether or not he's allowed to smoke is going to be moot. Would this heal in two years? I don't know. That's really all I was trying to say.

[Dakotabound]

Ah, yes...embarassment. A great tool in the right situation.

My son learned early on that if he misbehaved in WalMart, I just might break out into song and dance in the aisles, just to draw attention to his bad behavior and his crazy mom.

Never had much problem with him in public, imagine that.

[goodieD]

Good job! The difference between embarrassment and letting your kids smoke, drink, and do drugs, is that your kids won't die from embarrassment. We aren't here to be their "buddies", we are here to be their parents. Embarrassment isn't abuse, it doesn't cause trauma and it definitely won't kill you.

[Jeff Chandler]

It's a good thing to establish rules of behavior in a household, and there is nothing wrong with requiring unemancipated minors to uphold those rules. When they have moved out and are fully supporting themselves, they can make their own decisions and set the rules for their own households. This is simple common sense. Young people need direction, and if they're old enough to reject parental authority, they're old enough to pay their own freight.

What this mother is doing to stop her boys from smoking will certainly not hurt the boys, but my guess is that it probably won't change their behavior, either. She isn't risking destroying the relationship with them, because the relationship is already bad. They don't seem to respect her. If they did, then she wouldn't need the posters.

I'm curious: where is the father? Fathers can usually enforce discipline more effectively than mothers. No offense to mothers, it's just that boys, expecially at that age, need a strong male to model behavior and teach them respect for the rules of the house.

[Ramius]

She has accomplished a couple of things: She has virtually assured that her boys will smoke, and heavily, especially when they are around friends. She has also alienated her boys, evaporating whatever credibility she may have had left. They now know that they cannot trust her not to fly off the handle in the future.

The posters are silly and useless and will be seen that way by everybody in town. They virtually scream "Hey look at me! I'm an incompetent parent! I do stupid things to my kids!".

The truly delusional part of it is that she probably actually thinks that townsfolk will bother to actually call the police if they see the kids smoking, and that if they did, the police would actually do anything about it.