Now That Bush Has Sold Us Out... What are we going to do about it? (vanity)

[Michael2001]

Well I'm mad and I'm angry, and maybe that's why I can't think of an appropriate response. While all of us were prasing him for how he was dealing with the war on terror, Bush passes this Amnesty Bill, something that not even the sneaky Bill Clinton would do. This is one of the worse Bills to pass through Congress, it will hurt us in many ways, and ten years from now we will still be feeling it's effects.

Bush has, without a doubt in my mind, sold us out for the Hispanic vote. He sold us out because he can take our vote for granted (who will we vote for Al Gore?). Is he wrong? What do we do when the Republicans stop looking out for our interests? Is it time for a new party, or do we work within the party and try to root out the Republicans In Name Only (of which there are many)?

[Joe Hadenuf]

I completely agree with that.

[F.J. Mitchell]

#35: Having never tried fried cockroaches, I couldn't say. Not being as good as spam shouldn't rule them off the menu though, lots of foods are not as tasty as spam. (Just my opinion of course.) If someone would try fried cockroaches and they turned out to be not half bad-we could start rounding them up instead of poisoning them, and world hunger would soon cease to exist.

I apologize to those with weak stomachs who read this-had to write it though, the devil made me do it.

[EBUCK]

You must be developmentally disabled. I thought that my post was perfectly clear.

I'll put it into small words for you.

By not supp-ort-ing the pubs and mak-ing your rea-sons for non supp-ort known you are act-ual-ly imp-rov-ing your chan-ces of get-ting your con-serv-at-ive i-de-as put in-to act-ion.

As it stands now the difference between pubs and rats is so small that voting for either is a vote for the other. And by stating that gore for four is better than the other four for 16 I'm actually making my point even more clear.

Look, after 4 years of clowntoon who did the pubs put up? Dole. Did anyone ever think he had a chance of winning? I didn't. Then after 8 years of clowntoon the pubs put someone up that actually seemed to be a true conservative and he won. Why? Because they regrouped and came up with someone that they thought we would take as a "true" conservative. How many more times before we get a "true" conservative is up to you and I voicing our opinion at the ballot box.

EBUCK

[fire and forget]

I'm speachless. That quote (from your link) is among the most eloquent and hard-hitting that I've ever heard.

"Hold on to the Constitution of the United States of America and the Republic for which it stands-- what has happened once in six thousand years may never happen again. Hold on to your Constitution, for if the American Constitution shall fail there will be anarchy throughout the world."

These words exactly mirror my own thoughts over many years, and the thoughts of so many others here and elsewhere. What hope has the world in a nuclear age if the greatest beacon of liberty and rationality is lost? I'm not Christian, although I espouse and try to live within true Christian precepts, and I'm not Libertarian, as I still hold out with hope that the Republican Party will return to the wisdom of the Founders. I don't see the inevitability of an armed conflict between us and our government. Still, I'm profoundly moved and share the sentiments of the author of those comments. I will take up arms to defend America if need arise, and I've the will to use them, should circumstances require. And I will take care in drawing distinctions.

Thank you for your post. Bookmarked.

[Joe Hadenuf]

I would sugguest that you start brushing up on your Spanish, because in another ten years, you won't recognize the United States.

You bet. There are so many positions and jobs that now *require or prefer spanish speaking or bilingual* that its truly offensive to be an American, and not be qualified because you don't speak the language.

[EBUCK]

Did I mis-read the bill. I thought it stated that anyone of illegal staus here before (was it) Dec 2000 was elligable for amnesty. Am I wrong? Please let me know if I am.

EBUCK

[zlala]

When I was a kid my parents sent me out to the Strawberry/Blueberry/Garlic fields every summer to work. My kids can't even get into those places any more.

Ditto for my kids. There are plenty of kids in the Yakima (WA) Valley that would really like a job, period. They try to get work in the fields or orchards or fruit warehouses for the summer and no luck. Immigrants now take these jobs. And it's not for the lack of citizens not wanting them either. (I despise that argument). Kids, if they are lucky enough to get jobs for the summer (adults year-round)end up working for the fast food places with fewer hours and less pay.

[EBUCK]

Actually going third party got you Bush in the long run.

EBUCK

[EBUCK]

Time to go home, I'll pick this thread up first thing in the morn. Good night.

EBUCK

[fire and forget]

I'm of the same mind. We mustn't just assume our leaders are infallible. However, Bush is briefed daily with intelligence unavailable to us on all fronts. Although my gut disagrees with this bill, I'll still give Bush the opportunity to spell out how it balances out to our advantage. I hope he will. Otherwise we're likely to have a democrat in office come 2004. That wouldn't portend well for America, its Constitution or any of us.

[Gore_ War_ Vet]

No!

[Merdoug]

I have lived in Nashville, Tn all of my life and, at least here, I HAVE seen an ENOURMOUS change in the Hispanic population in the last FIVE years. I don't know about where YOU live, but don't go telling me that nothing has changed in the last ten years because it HAS. I have nothing against Mexicans; I live in an apartment complex where five years ago it was 20% white and 70%black and 10%hispanic. Now it is 80% hispanic. They have made very polite neighbors, but they DO NOT assimulate with the American culture! THAT is what I am saying and you had better open your eyes. Rant over. No hard feelings? :)

[Texasforever]

By not supp-ort-ing the pubs and mak-ing your rea-sons for non supp-ort known you are act-ual-ly imp-rov-ing your chan-ces of get-ting your con-serv-at-ive i-de-as put in-to act-ion.

Did you or did you not state that "it is better Gore for four"? Did you or did you not intimate earlier that the Homeland Defense agency in the hands of Hillary would be a nightmare? No you were caught in a logical fallacy and now are trying to find a corner in a round room. To use an old Vietnam saying, you are advocating that we "destroy the village in order to save it".

[zog]

--I'm with you on that, having worked farms off and on well into my young 30's. An entire chicken might cost another 25 cents if the workers were paid better and no illegals were involved. A bag of apples maybe another 25 cents, ditto spuds. Combine harvested foods-negligible,probably too hard to even calculate any sort of difference. Farmers as a whole make zilch, the middle man traders , the international agribiz corporations, then all the processing takes 90% or better of the food dollar. A bushel of wheat on a good day might bring a grower 2.50$, and it will make 30-40 loaves of bread.

We do serious gardens here, too, in fact tomorrow the first spring stuff is going in the first bed. If I had to compare it to what retail is-being organically grown-it pays better then most of the jobs I have had on return with cash+labor in hours with it, plus it's just so dang tasty! heheheh

--generic commentary-- As to voting, dang if I'm gonna vote for NWO faction A or B, they done got enough chances from me, I learned my lesson. Some folks say don't be a one issue voter-and I ain't. I actually agre with those sentiments. So, what happens is, I got dozens of issues with both parties. They both fully support the UN. Support this massive illegal immigration. Support "law" by executive order dictates and bureaucratic edicts. They both support running our foreign policy based on fatcats with ties to middle eastern oil supplies. Neither party wants to address the second amendment reasonably, as in "follow it". Neither party is in any hurry to investigate high level treason in government or weird craspola like waco or twa800 or 9-11 even . Neither gives a crap about limited constitutional federal government and states rights. Dems want to always expand the size of government-and dang if we don't have even more federal government cooking on the burners as we speak with the repubs in the hotseat. And now they want to run all the local and state cops as 'efficiently" as the fed cops are. With them running the show, to boot. Unlawful FRN fiat counterfeit money and the manipulation of peoples lives with the IRS goons-they both dig it. Stock market on-purpose boom and bust cycles that only really benefit the very tipppy top skimmers and their allies in government. On and on, I just had ENOUGH with the evil and stupid party and the stupid and evil party, their parties resemble drunken brawls more than any "party". I just can't "pick" between the crips and the bloods anymore.

No offense to the faithful here, I got respect for the grassroots activists, people who honestly care and who try, only to get shafted all the time. I was meself for quite the long time, Ijust think you and I been sold out and are being played for suckers. No idea what it would take for that to truly register, but I try what I can. Is it gonna take a 90% tax rate and tanks on the corner to sink in? Will it be a mostly two class society with elites ansd serfs like in all these foreign places the various leaders love to ship jobs off to? I dunno, can't even guess anymore.

Go independent or go third party, but seek to end these two private organizations-not carved in stone anywhere in our laws-from running this government and nation into the ground anymore than it has been. The democratic and republican parties are NOT the two official arms of government, even though they have everyone faked out like they are. They are just private organizations dedicated to keeping their hands deeper into the pie than the other guys and that's IT. If you want a one world government and all that entails-swell, keep voting and working for global government faction A or B, because it won't matter, you will GET global government from those efforts. Your support for faction A or B is about as relevant to the outcome of global government as if there was a major difference in the outcome between getting poison ivy or poison oak. Big hint, there ain't, it's still a rash that is itchy and just plain sucks.

As to those who say you waste your vote? I say that's called thievery, anyone who claims to own your vote and tell you how to spend it is a con man engaging in fraud, trying to scare ya into maybe doing something you might not be inclined to do. When people do it with investment money it's called buncoism and you can get arrested for it, but for your vote? something more important than a few bucks? Naw, you can get lied to and misled and not represented, and it's scot-free for the liars for a time of at least 2 to 6 years, then they probably get a pension you pay for anyway. Such a deal!

Vote for the person who is the closest to your beliefs, and stick to it. You will never get a perfect match, this is a gimmee, so with that as a gimmee, vote for the best person as you see fit, period. No matter what happens, you done your duty, and only YOU can do YOUR duty, no one else can do it for you.

[sinkspur]

I thought it stated that anyone of illegal staus here before (was it) Dec 2000 was elligable for amnesty.

You thought wrongly. If someone was here before Dec 2000, has other family here, and has $1000 bucks, they can apply for a green card.

From what I've read over the last 24 hours from level-headed sources, that amounts to about 200,000 people.

Many less than the "amnesty" approved by Ronald Reagan.

Maybe that's why Ron Paul voted for the bill.

Or, maybe he voted for it because of the additional INS border agents. Or because the "amnesty" ends in October.

[antidemocommie]

Do we keep on riding this pony thats going in the wrong direction? If our party was responsive to the will of its members, GW would never dream of offering to make legal those who spit on our laws.

I don't want to vote 3rd party, but what with the wimps in Congress running from our common values, and GW ignoring them, what alternative do we have?

By the time the GOP wakes up, the New World Order will be fully in place.

Is that what I want for America? No way.

[AAABEST]

"Are you totally nuts, or Mr. Peanut himself? If you want to live in a country run by that POS Buchanan or his ilk I understand Zimbabwe is nice this time of year."

Don't freepmail me with your foolish comments . Put them on the forum so you can make an idiot out of yourself in front of everyone.

I don't know what's more absurd, your laughable contention that El Presidente' Jorge is more conservative than Ronald Reagan, or your assumption that those who recognize such stupidity are Buchananites.

[ATOMIC_PUNK]

Now That Bush Has Sold Us Out...

Sold us out? He didnt sell me out but his decision did piss me off Tell you what this country has got to get used to honesty again if it dont were sunk Bush is an honest and forthright President and i beleive hes the right man for the job regardless of this decision I dont think voting for a 3rd party or voting for a demoncrat would do anything but throw us HEADLONG into a communist police state and if we go to war with Iraq what better allie to have close to home than mexico sure the decision was WRONG but i think it may be for reasons other than VOTE PADDING and ELECTION TAMPERING i just dont see GWB doing it that way i may be wrong ! i have been before but ill stand behind him for now we will see what the future brings WONT WE ?

[Darth Sidious]

Kick all the bums out and start over. What is your plan for getting this done?

For doing it almost overnight? I have no plan for that. Nor does one come to mind, with the exception of full-bore revolution breaking out if perchance the federal government were to attempt to seize all privately-owned firearms. Even then I'd wonder if enough sheeple would come to their senses.

But that's not even remotely realistic.

Will offer this observation: I do believe that Free Republic is setting the foundation for what is going to happen, though. Ten years ago would there have been even this much outrage over this bill? Heck, how many Americans would even care that partial amnesty was being debated in their Congress? Maybe 5% of the FR audience here, if that much. Look what's happened in just the past week though: the Pickering nomination, illegal alien amnesty, a growing discontent here in North Carolina with how Liddy Dole is being foisted upon us by the GOP bigwigs... ten years ago we were either kept in the dark about a lot of this stuff, or else had no way of seriously contesting it. Now we can. They used to think they could keep this stuff under the carpet. Thanks to FR and the "alternative media" it gets made known. Americans used to be mistrustful as Hell about their elected officials. That was a good thing. Then we began trusting them too much, ultimately buying into the con that we had to rely on them for our normal existence. Slowly but surely, we're coming to be mistrustful as Hell about them, again.

What happens next? The most obvious thing that comes to mind is this: we - the people - start taking the ideological fight back to the idiots who've trampled over principles in the name of their parties. If a candidate is speaking on a campaign stop, some of us should challenge them aloud: politely, but quite verbally. Let's start putting THEM on the defensive, see what they REALLY believe in when their backed against a wall. We stop relying on "normal" means of communicating/advertising our message, and at the grassroots start vigorously acting against this pre-packaged stagnancy the party leadership expects us to swallow... sorta like Simon's victory in California. Lord willing, Dole will get defeated in the primaries here in NC much the same way.

I think something is happening now, and for the better, but we're at a place where we can't define what exactly that is yet. But if you want a plan, I can propose that we begin looking at ways to continue what Free Republic is evolving into: from news/discussion, to hard-core grassroots activism.