Posted on 02/24/2002 8:50:08 PM PST by mdittmar
A Fort Bragg soldier taking part in an exercise off the base was killed and another was injured in a shooting after a sheriffs deputy stopped them on a rural road, authorities said.
The soldiers were taking part in a role-playing exercise that is part of the Special Forces Qualification Course, according to a statement from the Moore County Sheriffs Department.
The soldiers were carrying weapons, but they do not carry live ammunition during the exercise, Maj. Richard Patterson of the John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center and School told The Fayetteville Observer.
The two soldiers were not in uniform. For various scenarios within the exercise, thats not uncommon, said a Special Forces spokesman. They were going out to do reconnaissance of a target that was going to be used for a future mission in the exercise, the spokesman said.
The newspaper reported that the soldiers were in a vehicle that was stopped by Deputy Randall Butler on a rural road northwest of Robbins on Saturday afternoon. Robbins is about 25 miles from the Fort Bragg reservation.
The sheriffs department would not comment on why Butler stopped the vehicle or why he drew his weapon. No charges had been filed Sunday. Butler was placed on administrative leave with pay.
Sheriff Frank Johnson was out of town and couldnt be reached by telephone Sunday.
UNDER INVESTIGATION
The soldiers were in a vehicle driven by a civilian who was playing the role of a resident of a fictitious country, Patterson said. He wouldnt discuss further details of the incident because it was being investigated by the State Bureau of Investigation and the Army.
It was definitely a misunderstanding, but were still looking at the procedures and actions taken. We cant lay blame on anyone right now, said the Special Forces spokesman. The exercise, known as Robin Sage, is the 19-day final exam of the Special Forces Qualification Course. It tests skills in survival, tactics and dealing with people, as well as judgment, decision-making and ethics.
In previous Robin Sage sessions, law enforcement officials have helped the military by setting up road blocks. There was no immediate indication whether Butler was helping with Saturdays exercise.
Patterson said the names of the dead and wounded soldiers wouldnt be released until their relatives were notified.
The wounded soldier was listed in serious condition at FirstHealth Moore Regional Hospital in Pinehurst, according to the sheriffs department.
You read this HorseHillary on World Net Daily,and there were several threads about it right here on FR. The "source" WND used was a wannabe liar named Thomas Sanchez who WND claimed was a Colonel in the Texas NG,and a professional intelligence officer with covert experience in VN. He also claimed to have seen a secret Executive Order that was "Eyes Only for the President" that stated this exercise was to train troops how to confiscate the weapons of US citizens. The reality was he was a self-promoted Colonel in the Texas Militia,and his "covert VN experience" was as a enlisted sailor floating off the coast of VN.
Sanchez was also the source WND was using as "proof" of UN troops rallying along the Mexican border.
The sheriff and the deputy are both lying. The Moore County Sheriff has awards from SF hanging on his office wall to thank him for his help with Robin Sage,yet he tries to claim his dept was never involved with Robin Sage. These teams had been on the ground and running missions for almost two weeks,and this involves daily explosions and machine gun fire. If the sheriff and his deputies didn't think this was the result of harmless operations by the SF students,why didn't they investigate them? Don't you think MOST sheriff depts would investigate machine gun fire and explosions?
Not only do you believe it,but so does the SF guys who came back from Afighanistan who were interviewed by the Fayetteville paper. One guy actually stated the problems he ran into in Afighanistan were EXACLTY like the problems he ran into during Robin Sage.
Very insightful remark.
' No,it was the same operation. WND published quotes by the mayor that he later said were either made up,or taken out of context. He not only knew about the whole operation wellin advance,but had the local fire dept and police standing by to give help if needed. He and the town were PAID by the army for their cooperation.
Doubt is placed on the credibility of any individual who attempts to justify or to imply no real consequence is to be taken.
Or as so eloquantly stated in WWII,...NUTS!
Many cruisers nowadays are equipped with dashboard video cameras to record the actions of the officer and the driver during stops. The article never says if the vehicle carried one, but it might help clarify things. Also, in addition to the two soldiers, there was a civilian driver involved. In all traffic stops, the person responsible for the vehicle and its occupants is the driver. I've yet to hear what the driver's actions were or what comments he had to say about the incident. That could be telling also. Does anyone know?
If Robin Sage has been going on for 4 decades and "everybody" knows about it, then I would think that there must be some SOP in place, in the event one party or the other is unsure about whether or not they were taking part in a Robin Sage role-play excercise, to drop a code word or gesture, or the civilian tips the deputy with identification and a password about what's about to take place.
I find it significant that the Sheriff is coming down firmly on the side of his deputy at this point. He has access to knowledge that we don't and appears willing to face the court (and perhaps the voters, if his is an elective office) over this one. Then again, until the facts are clear, it may may be his duty to give his officer the benefit of the doubt.
Based on what I know at the moment, it seems to me the Deputy did his duty in resisting disarmament by unknown assailants. It's a terrible loss that one SF soldier was killed and another was wounded over the incident.
Ok, you explain it to me. Again, if this is not being misreported, the cop sees some young toughs in a pickup, stops them because one is riding in the back in a 40 degree drizzle, and is attacked by the occupants of the truck. Are the three in uniform? No. Are they marked in any way to show that they are taking part in an exersize? No. Can the cop be expected to be clarivoient? No.
The spec op guys fell to their own bad judgment and the bad judgement of their superiors.
Running this kind of drill without tight controls will inevitably cause problems. This time, it got people killed.
Again, I am no great admirer of cops in general. Too many of them are badge heavy arseholes. But this guy, from the reports, does not seem to have done much of anything wrong.
The spec op guys failed the test because they lacked judgement. They let the cop see the gun, then lacked the good sense to surrender and ID themselves. Their excuse that they thought he was part of the FX sounds self serving to me.
Did the snake eaters and their superiors commit some great evil? No, they just fxxxed up. So they pay the price, dead, wounded and ended careers.
Reading the posts here has been quite an education -- didn't know about the extent/history of the Robin Sage evolutions, so it makes a lot more sense now.
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February 26, 2002 |
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A Mistaken Shooting During Exercise By CHIP CUMMINS
FRANKLINVILLE, N.C. -- For more than 40 years, people around here have had an unusual hobby: posing as resistance fighters and enemy soldiers. Townspeople and farmers ferry soldiers around in their trucks and turn their homes and backyards into safe houses and guerrilla bases. Local police set up roadblocks along country lanes. The town librarian in neighboring Ramseur has played the role of a partisan fighter, smuggling coded messages in Dr. Seuss books. It's all part of the elaborate war games that the Special Forces troops at nearby Fort Bragg stage, enlisting local civilians to volunteer to help them train to fight behind enemy lines. Over the decades, "Robin Sage," as the two-week, four-times-a-year exercise is called, has become a family tradition, going back three generations. "A lot of people like ball games," said Michael Grigg, who has taken his six-year-old granddaughter, Taylor, with him some weekends when he is hauling troops in his Ford pickup. "I like doing this."
On Saturday, the tradition turned into tragedy. A Moore County sheriff's deputy stopped two soldiers and a local man driving on a quiet country lane near the town of Robbins. Dressed in civilian clothes, the threesome were taking part in the Special Forces exercise and believed the deputy was part of a training scenario. They resisted arrest, and the deputy, apparently not realizing the others were part of the exercise, shot the two soldiers, who were riding in the local's pickup truck and carrying a disassembled M-4 rifle. One soldier, First Lieutenant Tallas Tomeny, died from his wounds. The other was seriously wounded, and a community with long, close ties to the military has been shaken. The accident is especially poignant because it occurred in a community where residents take great pride in having helped prepare Special Forces troops in the sort of tactics that helped topple the Taliban regime in Afghanistan. The weekend's fatal mishap casts a spotlight on the unconventional training and methods of these troops, who have played a leading role in the post-Sept. 11 war on terrorism. For decades, every Green Beret -- a nickname that refers to the distinctive Special Forces head gear -- has had to qualify here in central North Carolina before being sent overseas. The Moore County Sheriff's office and the North Carolina State Bureau of Investigation are conducting separate investigations of the weekend shooting. The prosecutor's office for Moore and two other counties said Monday that based on initial findings in those investigations, the sheriff's deputy, Randall Butler, acted appropriately, as did the two soldiers involved. Criminal charges aren't expected, the prosecutor's office said. The Army has said the shooting resulted from an "unfortunate case of mistaken identity and a breakdown in communications between the individuals involved." An Army spokeswoman said exercise planners are going back to all local law-enforcement agencies to ensure close coordination. The exercises are continuing this week, the Army said. The shooting took place in a 4,500-square-mile swath of North Carolina forest and farmland that Army war-game designers have reimagined as the nation of "Pineland." During the current 14-day exercise, which began Feb. 16, some 200 aspiring Green Berets were inserted behind "enemy lines" by parachute, helicopter or plane. Then, they were supposed to make their way to "guerrilla bases" outside small towns like Franklinville, population 1,258. Their mission: to help topple Pineland's fictional puppet government. A visit to the area before last weekend's accidental shooting revealed high enthusiasm among locals for the exercise. As part of the training, soldiers are supposed to try to win the confidence of guerrilla chiefs, played by civilians or retired Green Berets. The trainees then accompany the guerrillas on missions, including ambushes of enemy militia and raids to free hostages. The Army asks land owners for permission to use their property. Live ammunition isn't employed in the role-playing that involves local residents, who cheerfully refer to themselves as "Pinelanders." Residents said Monday they were saddened by the accident but that it hasn't dented their support for the military exercises. Cheryl Lamonds of nearby Troy has volunteered since the 1980s for Robin Sage. (Green Beret lore has it that the name refers to the daughter of a former commander.) Last week, Ms. Lamonds donned a camouflage uniform to play a senior guerrilla chief. A group of soldiers came to her home to meet and negotiate with her. Another such gathering is scheduled for tonight. "It's really a shock," Ms. Lamonds, 48 years old, said of the accident. "There has to have been a whole lot of misunderstanding. Someone, somewhere dropped the ball. It will make people more cautious." Still, she doesn't expect it to decrease local eagerness to help the military. "These people are attached to this training, to the instructors and to Fort Bragg. I don't want to say the word 'mystique,' but it's a family," she explained. "It has gone on for so long without incident. This is really an anomaly." A week before the accident, Mr. Grigg, a 58-year-old maintenance man for the local power company who spent six years in the Army, stood in the dark next to his sister's dump truck as a stranger emerged from the woods behind Mount Lebanon Church, near Franklinville. "Does the preacher allow praying in the cemetery?" the man called out. Mr. Grigg recognized the code. "This truck is dirty as a dog," he barked back. He opened up the truck's tailgate, and 12 camouflaged soldiers with heavy packs and rifles ran from the woods and piled in. "We're in Pineland," said one of the soldiers, smiling through streaks of black-and-olive face paint as he clambered aboard. Helping the soldiers train, said Mr. Grigg. "makes me feel like I've done something." His two-story clapboard house often serves as a place where local militia keep captured Army soldiers. He has scrawled additional numbers on the dial of his bathroom wall clock so that it displays 24-hour military time. Most residents typically don't see much of the exercises, except for a few Army trucks and the occasional helicopter at night. In years past, more locals have volunteered than the Army can accommodate. In the past, there have been instances of residents unaware of an exercise calling 911 after seeing armed soldiers prowling the woods. But until now, no one has been hurt as a result of interaction between soldiers and locals, according to Army officials There have been occasional complaints from people who say they didn't know about the mock troop movements in advance or are angry about soldiers trampling on private property. Sgt. First Class Wade Bramble, who devises scenarios around Franklinville, said before the weekend accident that he warns local law enforcement and 911 dispatchers when part of an exercise might involve fake gunfire or explosives. But he said he still worries about the well-intentioned resident who could stumble onto a staged raid. "It's the good citizens who might come out with their own guns," he said. With the exercises spread out over nine counties and dozens of small towns, he conceded, he "can't physically talk to everyone." Last October, Jessica Keeling, 18 years old, heard a spray of mock machine-gun fire behind the Citgo filling station where she used to work. She quickly locked the doors, herded customers playing video poker into the store's walk-in refrigerator and dialed 911. The dispatcher told her it was just the Army staging a hostage rescue at the body shop next door. "Nobody told me there was going to be shooting," she recalled before the weekend accident. She smiled when telling her story but recalled that "some customers were saying, 'I'm never coming back here again.' Kids were crying." Sgt. Bramble set up that mock gun battle. As he pulled into another Citgo station down the road, where Ms. Keeling now works, she shook her head, saying, "Every time I see that one, I say, 'You going to be shooting today?' " Most people "understand what's going on" and endorse the exercises, even after the accident, said Lt. Jerry Brower, deputy sheriff in Randolph County, which abuts Moore County, where the accidental shooting took place. Once civilians realize a gun battle or a roadblock is actually role playing, "they only wish they had been closer," he said. In the wake of the accident, the lieutenant said his office is re-evaluating its safety and communications procedures and expects the military to rethink its procedures, too. But he added that "in everything, there's a risk. A soldier could have fallen in a rappelling accident." The shooting of the two soldiers "was a tragedy, but should [the Army] stop because it's a danger? No." David Griffin, 36, started helping with the exercises as a teenager, although he didn't know what was going on at first. Playing one day on the outskirts of Troy, he met a team of soldiers who mistook him for a guerrilla in the exercise. "They run me through a cornfield like you've never been run before," he recalled, with relish. "They never did catch me." He had so much fun, the next time he volunteered to help the Army. His 17-year-old son, James, used to come along on mock missions until he joined the real Army last summer. Mr. Griffin said Monday that spirits among some Army instructors and locals have flagged because of the accident, but he plans to continue to help. "You stay together and work it out," he said. Mr. Griffin recalled meeting his friend Chad Nichols, a 30-year-old power-line inspector, during a Robin Sage exercise in the mid-1980s. Posing as local guides last week, the two drove a group of soldiers in Mr. Nichols's battered truck to a "guerrilla base" in the woods just outside of Franklinville. The two friends have played resistance fighters, enemy soldiers and injured pilots. They have also bought their own semiautomatic rifles for use in the exercises. Those weapons are loaded with blanks, too. Mr. Griffin, who drives a truck for a local gas company during the week, said he doesn't mind spending late nights and weekends in the woods with the troops. He recalled the time the Army sent Mr. Nichols and him up in a surveillance plane to take aerial photos of a mock prisoner-of-war camp built by the Army for the exercise. After getting the pictures developed at a Wal-Mart, the two civilians attended an Army briefing where the photos were used to plan an assault, Mr. Griffin said. "It's not only an honor, it's a thrill," he said. His friend, Mr. Nichols, enlisted in the Army as a high-school senior but had to drop out after crushing his leg in a car accident. Participating in Robin Sage takes away some of the lingering disappointment, he explained. Mr. Nichols said the Army's recent success in Afghanistan has made the exercise even more important to him. There, teams of Green Berets linked up with guerrilla fighters to help oust the Taliban regime. Mr. Nichols said he has heard that soldiers returning from Afghanistan have said their real-life missions were similar to those they went through years ago in the North Carolina woods. "That makes me proud as heck," he said. After each exercise, soldiers spend a day painting barns, clearing fields or fixing fences as a way of saying thanks. Maj. Patrick Marques, an exercise organizer, said before the accident that the realism the locals provide is crucial. The major said he can make do with too few Army trucks or helicopters, "but if we don't have the people, we can't do this." |
Excuse me,but you NEVER surrender your fully-automatic weapon to ANYONE,and this includes the local cops. You have them call the safe house and have a SF cadre come out to take possession of the M-4's,and to see if he can work out a solution to any problems that have arisen. And,"Yes,the deputies all know where the safe house is".
Besides,why are you so certain the deputy isn't lying? We know the sheriff is. Don't you think it's strange that NOTHING has been heard from the civilian driver yet? Think maybe the sheriff has threatened him into silence? After all,he lives in Moore County.
But even to the commonsensical person, it might make sense that in an exercise where one is trying to evade capture, one may not be in a uniform signifying he is trying to avoid capture.
The spec op guys fell to their own bad judgment and the bad judgement of their superiors
This statement of yours' shows not only ignorance on the subject at hand but lack of reasoning ability. When taking part in a military E&E exercise...oh never mind........you cant comprehend the text obviously.
I keep wondering why you seem to have such a hxrd xn for the cop.
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