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“But, but, but” – Islam Means Peace, Doesn’t It? (NOT BLOODY LIKELY)
Free Britannia Journal ^ | February 23, 2002 | Greg Collins

Posted on 02/23/2002 8:15:48 AM PST by MadIvan

From over privileged guilt ridden leftists on college campuses to left leaning media to portentous gasbags in world governments, we hear a steady droning that Islam means “peace” and that it is a nonviolent religion practiced by millions around the world.

Mixed with these proclamations that Islam is peace, we are deluged on a daily basis with news accounts of deaths and horror inflicted on other people of faiths by practitioners of this acclaimed “peaceful” faith. The images and sounds from the news are emotionally gripping, powerful and horrific.

The screens and headlines shout one event after another until we are numb from disbelief … from kidnapping and murder of tourists in the Philippines to the shock of September 11, 2001 to videotaped executions of hostage reporter Daniel Pearl to street gangs in the Palestinian Authority gleefully bathing in the blood of dead Israeli soldiers.

We continue to hear cries of “jihad” from the street. We find ourselves dumbfounded to learn Islamic worshipers enter mosques to pray, and depart with shouts they are ready to kill for the glory of Allah.

What to believe about Islam and its practitioners? I suggest we examine some facts and try to reach some conclusions.

First, let’s start with the impression that the word “Islam” means “peace.” A little research quickly uncovers this is incorrect. The translated Arabic word ‘Islam’ means `submission' or ‘surrender’. The Arabic word ‘salaam’, a close linguistic cousin to the Hebrew ‘shalom” means peace

Second, history shows Muhammad used to send letters to the kings and leaders of the surrounding countries and tribes, inviting them to surrender to his authority and to believe in him as the messenger of Allah. He always ended his letters with the following message … `surrender and you will be safe', or in other words, `surrender or face death'.

Conversion at the point of a sword certainly begs the question of exactly where is the `peace' in all of it. Is it considered “peace” to threaten to kill other people, do away with their customs, and dominate them by whatever means possible? I think not, and thus, a historical review of Islam reveals it to be merely a successful means of conquest and expansion of religious creed but also secular political power.

To the faithful, this is an acceptable means of spreading their faith as well their influence. It also explains its rapid growth throughout the world over the last 5 centuries. A religion that was established by violence and still believes in violence as a chief tenet to growth is not a religion of peace – not by any stretch of the imagination.

Third, through reading secular history and even the Islamic holy books themselves, we find sufficient anecdotal evidence that without violence and conquest, Islam might not have survived.

“But, but, but, how can this be?” you might be asked by people who hadn’t heard this on the Nightly News With Tom Brokaw.

Examining the wars of Al-Riddah (the wars against the apostates) yields powerful verification to support this supposition. This series of conflicts began almost immediately after the death of the prophet Muhammad.

It’s a long story. However, the capsulated version goes like this - after the disappearance of Muhammad the conquered peoples, who have been forced to embrace Islam, refused to pay, imposed religious taxes and revolted.

The first Caliph, Abu-Bakr, knew without tax money he could not sustain his empire. He ordered his army to fight the apostates and after 2 years won out over the rebellious tribes. To justify the massive bloodshed, Abu-Bakr based his claim were necessary to preserve the faith and even went so far as to say he had been instructed by both Allah and the prophet messenger Muhammad to do so.

Thus, we see the beginnings of the religion and state being one using whatever means necessary to survive.

Fourth, the Qur’an itself is full of messages of peace, love, justice, harmony and oneness with the fellow man, but only if that man is Islamic. For all other peoples and nations, the message appearing throughout the Qur’an is clear and consistent – find the nonbeliever, get him to convert or kill him.

One example -

" But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.” - Qur'an, 9:5

Conclusions - A religion of peace? Not from a historical perspective regarding its inception. Not from the tactics it used to develop. Not from its own religious text. Not from modern-day examples of real world practices of its followers, and clerics.

Islam is not a religion founded on peace, and its followers today have not done enough to stem the violent sects. Further, Islam is long overdue for a renaissance that can make it religion of peace and in harmony with the world of today.

What does it mean for us today?

The rate of these attacks appears to be increasing and all done by Islamics who are described by leftist apologists as mere “fringe” elements. I believe it bears pointing out these “fringe” actions bear a striking similarity to the birth of the Islamic movement, and appears to be continuing the tactics of centuries ago to gain converts or eliminate competing beliefs.

It is not an exaggeration to state Islam has a goal of dominating all other religions, as well as eliminating offensive Western style democracies. This objective has remained unchanged since the prophet messenger Muhammad demanded conversion or death.

Does this mean all Muslims are violent? No, not at all.

Many Muslims, like almost all mankind, wish to live in peace and leave their neighbors alone. However, in current times, we see the overwhelming majority of religious related attacks done by Islamics against Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, Jews and Buddhists around the world.

Most American Muslims, and indeed other populations of Muslims around the world, appear to be lying low. This is unsettling to the Western world as we are unclear whether or not they merely wish to avoid controversy or whether they are merely unsure which side to cheer.

Many Westerners are wondering aloud if the lack of a strong opposition Muslim voice to terror campaigns as well as mere lip service to anti-terror activities raises one alarming concern.

If the notion of these terrorist actions done by “fringe elements” is in error, are we looking at the revitalization of an Islamic crusade began centuries before.

If so, what will “moderate” Muslims do when they hear the louder calls to join with their brothers in jihad? After all, these “moderate” Muslims are keenly aware any Muslim who fails to heed the call to avenge his brothers, in the long run, will be marked as a traitor and hunted down like dogs.

Will the “moderates” seek elimination of this “fringe” and try to change their faith to become more in tune with modern society? Or are they going to choose war, and the renunciation of Western civilization concepts like democracy and freedom while embracing the religious fanatical tyranny embodied by the Taliban?

There are no quick easy answers. These questions are merely like a storm in the distance. Something to keep in mind as well as to keep an eye on as time and events continue to unfold.


TOPICS: Editorial; Front Page News; News/Current Events
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To: mv1
I think it is frightening, but all we can do at this point is to try to inject reason into the argument.

There is much of concern in the Muslim countries. They have festered for centuries in a Dark Ages of their own making, and it has been difficult to see the rise of militant Islamism.

But I am appalled at the hatred of people and their religion based on the actions of a few fanatics.

61 posted on 02/23/2002 11:07:55 AM PST by Illbay
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To: MadIvan
Munich Olympic Massacre, September 5, 1972: Eight Palestinian "Black September" terrorists seized 11 Israeli athletes in the Olympic Village in Munich, West Germany. In a bungled rescue attempt by West German authorities, nine of the hostages and five terrorists were killed.

Entebbe Hostage Crisis, June 27, 1976: Members of the Baader-Meinhof Group and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) seized an Air France airliner and its 258 passengers. They forced the plane to land in Uganda, where on July 3 Israeli commandos successfully rescued the passengers.

Iran Hostage Crisis, November 4, 1979: After President Carter agreed to admit the Shah of Iran into the U.S., Iranian radicals seized the U.S. Embassy in Tehran and took 66 American diplomats hostage. Thirteen hostages were soon released, but the remaining 53 were held until their release on January 20, 1981.

Grand Mosque Seizure, November 20, 1979: 200 Islamic terrorists seized the Grand Mosque in Mecca, Saudi Arabia, taking hundreds of pilgrims hostage. Saudi and French security forces retook the shrine after an intense battle in which some 250 people were killed and 600 wounded.

Assassination of Egyptian President, October 6, 1981: Soldiers who were secretly members of the Takfir Wal-Hajira sect attacked and killed Egyptian President Anwar Sadat during a troop review.

Assassination of Lebanese Prime Minister, September 14, 1982: Premier Bashir Gemayel was assassinated by a car bomb parked outside his party's Beirut headquarters.

Bombing of U.S. Embassy in Beirut, April 18, 1983: Sixty-three people, including the CIA's Middle East director, were killed, and 120 were injured in a 400-pound suicide truck-bomb attack on the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, Lebanon. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.

Bombing of Marine Barracks, Beirut, October 23, 1983: Simultaneous suicide truck-bomb attacks were made on American and French compounds in Beirut, Lebanon. A 12,000-pound bomb destroyed the U.S. compound, killing 242 Americans, while 58 French troops were killed when a 400-pound device destroyed a French base. Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.

Kidnapping of Embassy Official, March 16, 1984: The Islamic Jihad kidnapped and later murdered Political Officer William Buckley in Beirut, Lebanon. Other U.S. citizens not connected to the U.S. Government were seized over a succeeding 2-year period.

Hizballah Restaurant Bombing, April 12, 1984: Eighteen U.S. servicemen were killed, and 83 people were injured in a bomb attack on a restaurant near a U.S. Air Force Base in Torrejon, Spain. Responsibility was claimed by Hizballah.

TWA Hijacking, June 14, 1985: A Trans-World Airlines flight was hijacked en route to Rome from Athens by two Lebanese Hizballah terrorists and forced to fly to Beirut. The eight crew members and 145 passengers were held for 17 days, during which one American hostage, a U.S. Navy sailor, was murdered. After being flown twice to Algiers, the aircraft was returned to Beirut after Israel released 435 Lebanese and Palestinian prisoners.

Achille Lauro Hijacking, October 7, 1985: Four Palestinian Liberation Front terrorists seized the Italian cruise liner in the eastern Mediterranean Sea, taking more than 700 hostages. One U.S. passenger was murdered before the Egyptian Government offered the terrorists safe haven in return for the hostages' freedom.

Egyptian Airliner Hijacking, November 23, 1985: An EgyptAir airplane bound from Athens to Malta and carrying several U.S. citizens was hijacked by the Abu Nidal Group.

Aircraft Bombing in Greece, March 30, 1986: A Palestinian splinter group detonated a bomb as TWA Flight 840 approached Athens Airport, killing four U.S. citizens.

Berlin Discoteque Bombing, April 5, 1986: Two U.S. soldiers were killed, and 79 American servicemen were injured in a Libyan bomb attack on a nightclub in West Berlin, West Germany. In retaliation, U.S. military jets bombed targets in and around Tripoli and Benghazi.

Kidnapping of William Higgins, February 17, 1988: U.S. Marine Corps Lt. Col. W. Higgins was kidnapped and murdered by the Iranian-backed Hizballah group while serving with the United Nations Truce Supervisory Organization (UNTSO) in southern Lebanon.

Naples USO Attack, April 14, 1988: The Organization of Jihad Brigades exploded a car bomb outside a USO Club in Naples, Italy, killing one U.S. sailor.

Pan Am 103 Bombing, December 21, 1988: Pan American Airlines Flight 103 was blown up over Lockerbie, Scotland, by a bomb believed to have been placed on the aircraft in Frankfurt, West Germany, by Libyan terrorists. All 259 people on board were killed.

U.S. Embassy Bombed in Peru, January 15, 1990: The Tupac Amaru Revolutionary Movement bombed the U.S. Embassy in Lima, Peru.

Attempted Iraqi Attacks on U.S. Posts, January 18-19, 1991: Iraqi agents planted bombs at the U.S. Ambassador to Indonesia's home residence and at the USIS library in Manila.

Bombing of the Israeli Embassy in Argentina, March 17, 1992: Hizballah claimed responsibility for a blast that leveled the Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires, Argentina, causing the deaths of 29 and wounding 242.

World Trade Center Bombing, February 26, 1993: The World Trade Center in New York City was badly damaged when a car bomb planted by Islamic terrorists explodes in an underground garage. The bomb left six people dead and 1,000 injured. The men carrying out the attack were followers of Umar Abd al-Rahman, an Egyptian cleric who preached in the New York City area.

Attempted Assassination of President Bush by Iraqi Agents, April 14, 1993: The Iraqi intelligence service attempted to assassinate former U.S. President George Bush during a visit to Kuwait. In retaliation, the U.S. launched a cruise missile attack 2 months later on the Iraqi capital Baghdad. Air France Hijacking, December 24, 1994: Members of the Armed Islamic Group seized an Air France Flight to Algeria. The four terrorists were killed during a rescue effort.

Attack on U.S. Diplomats in Pakistan, March 8, 1995: Two unidentified gunmen killed two U.S. diplomats and wounded a third in Karachi, Pakistan.

Kashmiri Hostage-taking, July 4, 1995: In India, six foreigners, including two U.S. citizens, were taken hostage by Al-Faran, a Kashmiri separatist group. One non-U.S. hostage was later found beheaded.

Jerusalem Bus Attack, August 21, 1995: Hamas claimed responsibility for the detonation of a bomb that killed six and injured over 100 persons, including several U.S. citizens.

Saudi Military Installation Attack, November 13, 1995: The Islamic Movement of Change planted a bomb in a Riyadh military compound that killed one U.S. citizen, several foreign national employees of the U.S. Government, and more than 40 others.

Hamas Bus Attack, February 26, 1996: In Jerusalem, a suicide bomber blew up a bus, killing 26 persons, including three U.S. citizens, and injuring some 80 persons, including three other US citizens.

Dizengoff Center Bombing, March 4, 1996: Hamas and the Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ) both claimed responsibility for a bombing outside of Tel Aviv's largest shopping mall that killed 20 persons and injured 75 others, including two U.S. citizens.

West Bank Attack, May 13, 1996: Arab gunmen opened fire on a bus and a group of Yeshiva students near the Bet El settlement, killing a dual U.S.-Israeli citizen and wounding three Israelis. No one claimed responsibility for the attack, but Hamas was suspected.

Zekharya Attack, June 9, 1996: Unidentified gunmen opened fire on a car near Zekharya, killing a dual U.S./Israeli citizen and an Israeli. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) is suspected.

Khobar Towers Bombing, June 25, 1996: A fuel truck carrying a bomb exploded outside the U.S. military's Khobar Towers housing facility in Dhahran, killing 19 U.S. military personnel and wounding 515 persons, including 240 U.S. personnel. Several groups claimed responsibility for the attack.

Bombing of Archbishop of Oran, August 1, 1996: A bomb exploded at the home of the French Archbishop of Oran, killing him and his chauffeur. The attack occurred after the Archbishop's meeting with the French Foreign Minister. The Algerian Armed Islamic Group (GIA) is suspected.

Sudanese Rebel Kidnapping, August 17, 1996: Sudan People's Liberation Army (SPLA) rebels kidnapped six missionaries in Mapourdit, including a U.S. citizen, an Italian, three Australians, and a Sudanese. The SPLA released the hostages 11 days later.

Paris Subway Explosion, December 3, 1996: A bomb exploded aboard a Paris subway train as it arrived at the Port Royal station, killing two French nationals, a Moroccan, and a Canadian, and injuring 86 persons. Among those injured were one U.S. citizen and a Canadian. No one claimed responsibility for the attack, but Algerian extremists are suspected.

Tupac Amaru Seizure of Diplomats, December 17, 1996: Twenty-three members of the Tupac Amaru Revolutionary Movement (MRTA) took several hundred people hostage at a party given at the Japanese Ambassador's residence in Lima, Peru. Among the hostages were several U.S. officials, foreign ambassadors and other diplomats, Peruvian Government officials, and Japanese businessmen. The group demanded the release of all MRTA members in prison and safe passage for them and the hostage takers. The terrorists released most of the hostages in December but held 81 Peruvians and Japanese citizens for several months.

Egyptian Letter Bombs, January 2-13, 1997: A series of letter bombs with Alexandria, Egypt, postmarks were discovered at Al-Hayat newspaper bureaus in Washington, New York City, London, and Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. Three similar devices, also postmarked in Egypt, were found at a prison facility in Leavenworth, Kansas. Bomb disposal experts defused all the devices, but one detonated at the Al-Hayat office in London, injuring two security guards and causing minor damage.

Empire State Building Sniper Attack, February 23, 1997: A Palestinian gunman opened fire on tourists at an observation deck atop the Empire State Building in New York City, killing a Danish national and wounding visitors from the United States, Argentina, Switzerland, and France before turning the gun on himself. A handwritten note carried by the gunman claimed this was a punishment attack against the "enemies of Palestine."

Israeli Shopping Mall Bombing, September 4, 1997: Three suicide bombers of Hamas detonated bombs in the Ben Yehuda shopping mall in Jerusalem, killing eight persons, including the bombers, and wounding nearly 200 others. A dual U.S./Israeli citizen was among the dead, and seven U.S. citizens were wounded.

Yemeni Kidnappings, October 30, 1997: Al-Sha'if tribesmen kidnapped a U.S. businessman near Sanaa. The tribesmen sought the release of two fellow tribesmen who were arrested on smuggling charges and several public works projects they claim the government promised them. They released the hostage on November 27.

Murder of U.S. Businessmen in Pakistan, November 12, 1997: Two unidentified gunmen shot to death four U.S. auditors from Union Texas Petroleum Corporation and their Pakistani driver after they drove away from the Sheraton Hotel in Karachi. The Islami Inqilabi Council, or Islamic Revolutionary Council, claimed responsibility in a call to the U.S. Consulate in Karachi. In a letter to Pakistani newspapers, the Aimal Khufia Action Committee also claimed responsibility.

Tourist Killings in Egypt, November 17, 1997: Al-Gama'at al-Islamiyya (IG) gunmen shot and killed 58 tourists and four Egyptians and wounded 26 others at the Hatshepsut Temple in the Valley of the Kings near Luxor. Thirty-four Swiss, eight Japanese, five Germans, four Britons, one French, one Colombian, a dual Bulgarian/British citizen, and four unidentified persons were among the dead. Twelve Swiss, two Japanese, two Germans, one French, and nine Egyptians were among the wounded.

Somali Hostage-takings, April 15, 1998: Somali militiamen abducted nine Red Cross and Red Crescent workers at an airstrip north of Mogadishu. The hostages included a U.S. citizen, a German, a Belgian, a French, a Norwegian, two Swiss, and one Somali. The gunmen were members of a subclan loyal to Ali Mahdi Mohammed, who controlled the northern section of the capital.

U.S. Embassy Bombings in East Africa, August 7, 1998: A bomb exploded at the rear entrance of the U.S. embassy in Nairobi, Kenya, killing 12 U.S. citizens, 32 Foreign Service Nationals (FSNs), and 247 Kenyan citizens. About 5,000 Kenyans, six U.S. citizens, and 13 FSNs were injured. The U.S. embassy building sustained extensive structural damage. Almost simultaneously, a bomb detonated outside the U.S. embassy in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, killing seven FSNs and three Tanzanian citizens, and injuring one U.S. citizen and 76 Tanzanians. The explosion caused major structural damage to the U.S. embassy facility. The U.S. Government held Usama Bin Ladin responsible.

Attack on U.S.S. Cole, October 12, 2000: In Aden, Yemen, a small dingy carrying explosives rammed the destroyer U.S.S. Cole, killing 17 sailors and injuring 39 others. Supporters of Usama Bin Ladin were suspected.

Manila Bombing, December 30, 2000: A bomb exploded in a plaza across the street from the U.S. embassy in Manila, injuring nine persons. The Moro Islamic Liberation Front was likely responsible.

Bus Stop Bombing, April 22, 2001: A member of Hamas detonated a bomb he was carrying near a bus stop in Kfar Sava, Israel, killing one person and injuring 60.

Tel-Aviv Nightclub Bombing, June 1, 2001: Hamas claimed responsibility for the bombing of a popular Israeli nightclub that caused over 140 casualties.

Hamas Restaurant Bombing, August 9, 2001: A Hamas-planted bomb detonated in a Jeruselum pizza restaurant, killing 15 people and wounding more than 90.

Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Homeland, September 11, 2001: Two hijacked airliners crashed into the twin towers of the World Trade Center. Soon thereafter, the Pentagon was struck by a third hijacked plane. A fourth hijacked plane, suspected to be bound for a high-profile target in Washington, crashed into a field in southern Pennsylvania. More than 3,000 U.S. citizens and other nationals were killed as a result of these acts. President Bush and Cabinet officials indicated that Usama Bin Laden was the prime suspect and that they considered the United States in a state of war with international terrorism. In the aftermath of the attacks, the United States formed the Global Coalition Against Terrorism.

62 posted on 02/23/2002 11:15:39 AM PST by ChadGore
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To: Utopia
Both killed in their name of their God for their religion. Is Christianity on trial because of Andrea Yates? No. When why is Islam on trial because of Atta?

That is without a doubt among the top 10 stupidest things I've ever seen posted here. Where in the world did you come up with that twisted analogy? Please refrain from posting such drivel.

63 posted on 02/23/2002 11:28:42 AM PST by pgkdan
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To: Illbay
"Christian Germany allowed the Nazis to rise to power, too. what does that tell you?"

You cannot honestly call pre-WW2 Germany "Christian." They weren't governed by a Christian consensus before WW1 and they were in a terrible state of confusion after that war. The nazis bullied their way into power over a very disoriented and starving people and tried to eliminate Christianity with a vengance.

Yes, the "nasties" were elected, but then after winning, lo and behold, there weren't any more elections! Your phrase "Christian Germany allowed....." is really unfair.

64 posted on 02/23/2002 11:28:44 AM PST by nightdriver
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To: MadIvan
It seems when I read these posts regarding Islamic terrorists, I get the urge to eat bacon.
65 posted on 02/23/2002 11:29:46 AM PST by virgil
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To: MadIvan
The truth is that Jesus Christ is the Lord God and allah is Satan
66 posted on 02/23/2002 11:36:48 AM PST by marbren
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To: Utopia
There are peaceful Moslems. I know many who pray 5 times a day and are appalled that their religion is being hijacked.

If they are so appalled, shouldn't they be screaming it from the roof tops, as it is, we are left to believe they all think as one.

67 posted on 02/23/2002 11:39:11 AM PST by Great Dane
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To: Illbay
Illbay wrote:
But I am appalled at the hatred of people and their religion based on the actions of a few fanatics.
Daniel Pipes — an unquestioned expert on the subject — estimates that 5-10% of Muslims are Islamists.

Assuming that there are 1.2 billion Muslims throughout the world, this means that there are 60-120 million Islamists.

Furthermore, again assuming there are about 2 million Muslims here in the U.S., we have somewhere in the vicinity of 100,000 -200,000 Islamists living right here among us.

This is somewhat more than "a few fanatics" I'd say.

68 posted on 02/23/2002 11:43:01 AM PST by quidnunc
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To: ChadGore
#62....... Thanks for the reminder, they sure are peaceful folks, aren't they.
69 posted on 02/23/2002 11:59:44 AM PST by Great Dane
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To: Utopia
You are an IDIOT if you are trying to tell Freepers that Andrea Yates killed for Christianity....you are Delusional.
70 posted on 02/23/2002 12:13:11 PM PST by Ann Archy
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To: marbren
Radical Islam is the Anti-CHRIST.
71 posted on 02/23/2002 12:24:35 PM PST by Ann Archy
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To: Illbay; Utopia
Islam, religion of the sword.
72 posted on 02/23/2002 12:25:13 PM PST by Luke FReeman
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To: Illbay
But I am appalled at the hatred of people and their religion based on the actions of a few fanatics.

Not hatred but discernment.

73 posted on 02/23/2002 12:26:51 PM PST by MarMema
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To: MadIvan
"these “fringe” actions bear a striking similarity to the birth of the Islamic movement"

97% fanatical fringe, 3% average peace-loving muslim.

74 posted on 02/23/2002 12:34:40 PM PST by watchin
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To: Utopia
What's the difference between Andrea Yates and Mohammed Atta?

For starters: Yates' actions were against her religion, Mohammed Atta's actions were in keeping with his. Yates' actions are repugnant to Christians, Mohammed Atta's actions are celebrated by Muslims. Evil is evil no matter the religion, but there is a big difference between one crazy woman who succumbs to evil and legions of fanatics who construe their evil as good and justify their atrocities as the work of God.

75 posted on 02/23/2002 12:35:58 PM PST by EverOnward
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To: Utopia
Both killed in their name of their God for their religion.

I must have missed that somewhere. When and where did Andrea Yates say that she had killed her children in the name of God? As well, when did Yates say that the death of her children was to advance her cause?

There are peaceful Moslems. I know many who pray 5 times a day and are appalled that their religion is being hijacked.

Strange - I haven't heard them speaking up in public and condemning those that are hijacking their "peaceful" religion. When do they (or do they at all) plan on speaking out about this "hijacking?"

"...Do NOT paint an entire group with the same broad brush -- or is it that Christians are fundamentally ignorant, superficial and judgemental?

You know, I've been looking through the New Testament trying to find where it says that it's ok to kill non-Christians, and darn it, I just can't find it. I've been looking through it trying to find where it says that a Christian who kills a non-Christian isn't to be punished, but again, I just can't seem to find it. I also can't find any reference to killing a Christian because he commits apostasy. Would you be so kind as to point these things out to me?

76 posted on 02/23/2002 12:36:18 PM PST by Tennessee_Bob
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To: Illbay
Well, I'm somewhere in the middle on this. While I agree with you that we should obviously be careful not to condemn all Muslims for the actions of some other Muslims, I also think there is something to the idea that Islam is actually less peaceful in its theology and ideology than any of the other major religions. Also, it is at once a religion and a political movement, which sets it apart from most other religions.

I can tell you this: The Arab-American institute, which ran the ad of the two towers, which berated Americans for being essentially hateful bigots who need to be told to not hate others, had exactly the wrong idea. If they had instead run an ad pointing out that they do not subscribe to the beliefs of the extremist Wahhabists, and wish to live in peace, and are actutally patriotic Americans who grieve for the victims just like the rest of us, and believe in religious freedom for all, including Jews, and do not believe in violence to achieve religious or political goals, they would have achieved a much better result.

The catch is that all of the above would have to actually be true. I do not honestly know if that is the case. I truly hope it is.

77 posted on 02/23/2002 12:49:22 PM PST by B Knotts
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To: quidnunc
The difference between Christians and Muslims is that Christians by and large stopped engaging in warfare and other forms of mass killing in the name of religion centuries ago.

For Christians, that was the 11th Commandment which Jesus himself said to "Love thy neighbor."

Compare and contrast Christ's teachings with that of Mohammed who says to "Kill thy non-Muslim neighbor."

There it is, in a nutshell.

78 posted on 02/23/2002 12:51:57 PM PST by usconservative
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To: Ann Archy
Correction:

Radical Islam is the Anti-CHRIST.

The Islamic Terrorists who commited an act of war against innocent American civilians on Sept. 11th 2001 did exactly as their religion tells them to.

That is a FACT which bears repeating over, and over, and over again until the Politically Correct left and the President of the United States gets through their thick skulls!

79 posted on 02/23/2002 12:55:25 PM PST by usconservative
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To: Utopia
Both killed in their name of their God for their religion. Is Christianity on trial because of Andrea Yates? No. When why is Islam on trial because of Atta?

First of all, as far as I know Yates has never claimed to have done what she did in the name of her God, but because of her post-partum depression. My guess is that your hatred toward Christians made that link.

Secondly, when you find the verse in the Bible that condones Yates' behavior, you'll have a point.

Want to know the real difference between them? Yates actions were inconsistent with her belief system, while Atta's were consistent with Islam.

There are peaceful Moslems. I know many who pray 5 times a day and are appalled that their religion is being hijacked.

Let's compare your "many" to this: Since 911, 70% in Nigerian city name their baby boys Osama. So the average muslim in Nigeria sees Osama as a hero, rather than a hijacker of their religion.

You repeat your assertion on thread after thread - that your "several friends" should define Islam, rather than fourteen hundred years of barbarism, hate-filled religious texts, and a relentless parade of ruthlessness and terror in the news on a daily basis.

No one is denying that there are some peaceful muslims, but you really seem to think that the multitudes of maniacs are the fringe, while your "several friends" are the mainstream.

80 posted on 02/23/2002 12:57:07 PM PST by watchin
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