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“But, but, but” – Islam Means Peace, Doesn’t It? (NOT BLOODY LIKELY)
Free Britannia Journal ^ | February 23, 2002 | Greg Collins

Posted on 02/23/2002 8:15:48 AM PST by MadIvan

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To: Hamza01
It has been my observation that, of the Muslims I've known in the USA, the UK, in Japan, and in Turkey, most want to just live quiet lives, run successful businesses, and take care of themselves and their families: good God fearing people who tend to hang out in libraries. Having said that, I see Islam itself as a political ideology masquerading as a religion, prone to being hijacked by power mad demagogues, and a threat to civilization. That means that, in relation to Islam, the rest of the civilized world has to look at Islamicist organizations with an extreme, alert suspicion, like the Turks do.
41 posted on 02/23/2002 9:27:45 AM PST by Mortimer Snavely
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To: Utopia
I didn't know Andrea Yates murdered her kids for God and Christianity. I thought she claimed insanity for the murders. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
42 posted on 02/23/2002 9:30:11 AM PST by Moridin
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To: Hamza01
There may very well be some people who adhere to your interpretation. However my question is, why haven't we heard more from those who do not? You would be hard pressed to find a group of any significance among the Christians who suggest that they follow the dictum to "slay the Canaanites" (not many being around does help in this) - but there is a group of very real significance who is apparently taking this passage from the Koran to heart.

It would be a lot easier to dismiss them if the "moderates" were actively trying to do something to show patriotism for the nations in which they live and purging and shunning those who threaten violence. We have seen very little of this patriotism or support at all.

Regards, Ivan
43 posted on 02/23/2002 9:30:52 AM PST by MadIvan
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To: MadIvan
<...Muslims around the world, appear to be lying low...

It's time to call them to account.

"Do you endorse the violence or not? Will you attempt to force your religion on the rest of us or not?"

If there are no answers, then we must assume the game is on. Avoiding confrontation invites trouble all the more.

44 posted on 02/23/2002 9:33:00 AM PST by stboz
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To: MadIvan
Islam = The i-slam religion. Born to be violent.
45 posted on 02/23/2002 9:41:15 AM PST by highenergyzone
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To: MadIvan
Islam. A cult for savages
46 posted on 02/23/2002 9:42:32 AM PST by paul51
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To: Mortimer Snavely
"It has been my observation that, of the Muslims I've known in the USA, the UK, in Japan, and in Turkey, most want to just live quiet lives, run successful businesses, and take care of themselves and their families: good God fearing people who tend to hang out in libraries."

Is there a possibility that the Muslims who live in the USA would like America to BECOME A MUSLIM COUNTRY?

47 posted on 02/23/2002 9:47:48 AM PST by shetlan
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To: MadIvan
Standing O for a spot-on article that hits the mark.

It's almost as if the author heard the debate on Chicago-based WLS AM a few weeks ago between myself, a talk show host, and a Muslim Cleric. I found myself cheering this article's accuracy and calling it like it really is.

This quote "Most American Muslims, and indeed other populations of Muslims around the world, appear to be lying low. This is unsettling to the Western world as we are unclear whether or not they merely wish to avoid controversy or whether they are merely unsure which side to cheer." really hits the nail on the head. We have not heard a loud outcry from American Muslims (or others around the world for that matter) that rejects what the Islamic Terrorists did on Sept. 11th 2001. Quite the contrary as the author notes: they're ducking and covering.

So they're either waiting for their chance to rise up as Islam calls them to, and commit terrorist acts of their own, or they're too afraid.

I for one, do not believe that American Muslims are afraid of anything. Rather, I think they're biding their time as Islam instrucst them to, waiting for the right opportunity to strike out against America.

The history of Islam from the Ottoman Empire to the Turkish wars and more is bloody and violent. It seeks to convert entire nations in one of three ways as the author correctly points out: conversion, coersion or killing its enemies. The choice that has been resoundingly made by Islamic Terrorists (let's call them what they are) has been to KILL.

To say that these Islamic Terrorists "hijacked" Islam on Sept. 11th 2001 does two things:

First, it belittles the loss of innocent life - all innocent life from Christian to Jewish to Muslim to non-believer - on Sept. 11th, and IMO is a less than subtle attempt to draw attention away from all those who died, and portray Islam as the "victim" in all of this.

Second, the statement "Islam was hijacked" is a futile attempt to those of us who know the TRUTH, to draw away attention from the fact that these Islamic Terrorists did precisely what the Qu'ran instructs them to do: kill all non-Islamic believers.

Sura, known as the Verse of the Sword gives specific instructions on how to wage war against Non-Muslims and when to kill them. Islam is a religion of peace?

Let's compare and contrast the Qu'ran vs. The Holy Bible. In order to compare the Qu'ran to the Bible, we must compare the Qu'ran to the New Testament, in order to make an apples to apples comparison. The Qu'ran after all, was written hundreds of years *after* Christs Crucifixion, so there is no way to compare the Qu'ran to the Old and New Testament. Therefore, we must compare the New Testament vs. the Qu'ran:


48 posted on 02/23/2002 9:57:18 AM PST by usconservative
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To: MadIvan
As I said Ivan, the wrong people have all the guns in these societies. In Egypt and Pakistan-- countries with which I'm familiar, normal Muslims are scared shitless of being kidnapped and murdered a la Dan Pearl. In Iran, if you speak out against the Mullahs, you disappear and your family property is confiscated.

Personally, I said to my relatives in the ME and Pakistan that we're simply going to have to bite the bullet and wipe out the Wahabbi. The Koran says "fight oppression lest oppression become pervasive". Yet, so many are content simply to wait until it's too late.

It would have been much better if Muslims had themsleves risen up against the mullahs and binLadinites. Unfortunately, like the state of affairs in the USSR, the people of the Muslim world have been made docile by years of tyranny.

As far as Muslims in the West are concerned, too many go to Mosques funded by Saudi dollars, so if they speak up, they are intimidated into silence or become outcast in their own communities. Worse yet, when the media goes for an opinion from the "Muslim community" they go to the local imam. That's the very last place you're going to find honest opinions.

49 posted on 02/23/2002 9:58:29 AM PST by Hamza01
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To: MadIvan
"Yes! We are for peace, and if you don't believe us, we will kill you!"

50 posted on 02/23/2002 10:00:22 AM PST by antidemocommie
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To: MadIvan
Radical islam is an insane death cult: "moderate" islam is the Trojan horse of radical islam.
51 posted on 02/23/2002 10:02:13 AM PST by Travis McGee
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To: shetlan
Read the rest of the post.
52 posted on 02/23/2002 10:04:07 AM PST by Mortimer Snavely
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To: Hamza01
As I said Ivan, the wrong people have all the guns in these societies.

Not in Britain and the USA. Why haven't we heard much from moderate Muslims in either country?

Regards, Ivan
53 posted on 02/23/2002 10:06:21 AM PST by MadIvan
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To: MadIvan
I found it incredible that a week or two ago the official (Minister of Travel?) from Afghanistan was beaten and killed by an angry mob who were at the Kandahar airport to travel to on their pilgramage to Mecca.

Doesn't sound like a religion of peace to me.

WAS THE ARTICLE REGARDING THIS MURDER POSTED ON FreeRepublic? Please provid a link if one exists.

KillerMosquito

54 posted on 02/23/2002 10:11:45 AM PST by killermosquito
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To: Mortimer Snavely
It has been my observation that, of the Muslims I've known in the USA, the UK, in Japan, and in Turkey, most want to just live quiet lives, run successful businesses, and take care of themselves and their families: good God fearing people who tend to hang out in libraries.

I don't know about libraries, but thank you.

Having said that, I see Islam itself as a political ideology masquerading as a religion, prone to being hijacked by power mad demagogues, and a threat to civilization

Religions are routinely hijacked by power-mad demagogues. Indeed, the Christian experience has not been dissimilar, and episodes of frenzied bloodshed in the name of God-- while not recent, are both numerous and horrific. The role of good men is to remain eternally vigilant against such people. As far as Islam itself is concerned, I think the Wahabbi heresy (like the Kharijite heresy of 1400 years ago), is indeed-- as you so eloquently put it-- "a political ideology masquerading as religion".

55 posted on 02/23/2002 10:14:34 AM PST by Hamza01
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To: Utopia
There are exhortations to peace and goodness and exhortations to war and violence in both the Bible and the Koran.

The difference between Christians and Muslims is that Christians by and large stopped engaging in warfare and other forms of mass killing in the name of religion centuries ago.

The last one which comes to mind is the Thirty Years War occurring during the first half of the 17th century.

But Muslims are curently engaged in aggressive religiously-inspired wars of conquest against non-Muslims in Sudan, Indonesia, the Philippines, Nigeria, Pakistan, throughout the Middle East, Kashmir and almost everywhere in the Third World where Islam comes in contact with those whom Muslims consider infidels.

Even here in the West there are some causes for concern about Muslim populations.

Unlike the Bible, the Koran does not just concern itself with religion, but also contains sociopolitical and economic commandments regulating many aspects of everyday Muslim life.

Since the Koran mandates every Muslim to strive to extend Islam's dominion over non-Muslims there must always be a nagging doubt about where the individual Muslim's loyalties lay.

Does he consider himself to be a Muslim who just happens to be living in America or Britain or wherever, or does he look upon himself primarily as a loyal citizen of his country and, incidently, also a Muslim.

It's all a question of loyalty you see, and there is ample evidence that there is every reason to be asking that question.

56 posted on 02/23/2002 10:21:38 AM PST by quidnunc
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To: Utopia
Indonesians are Muslims. East Timorese are Roman Catholics. At the end of the last century Indonesians wiped out one third of the East Timorese, hundreds of thousands killed. What could possibly motivate a large country in modern times to slaughter a small population gaining independance from Portugal after 500 years of colonial rule. In a word, Submission, the ideology of Islam. I believe this is truely a religion to be feared.
57 posted on 02/23/2002 10:29:38 AM PST by LoneRangerMassachusetts
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To: killermosquito
Other than oil (which we pay for) and the number "Zero" as in "0" what has the Arab world given us?

I really don't have anything against Arabs but the religion of Islam does not promote peace. It seems to me that, if anything, it promotes poverty. And any culture that celebrates the death of innocents is indeed scary.

KillerMosquito

58 posted on 02/23/2002 10:31:40 AM PST by killermosquito
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To: Hamza01
I always make a distinction between Muslims and Islamicists: Islamicists want to conquer the world. Check out my profile page to see what my fear is. As far as Christianity and politics is concerned, the Reformation and the rise of nationalism in the West has made the idea of subordinating the secular power to the church, à la the Middle Ages, a very queer one indeed. I would very much like to know if there are any serious Islamic theologians who can "reform" Islam so that it may be content to live under secular authority.
59 posted on 02/23/2002 10:46:52 AM PST by Mortimer Snavely
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To: is_is
Christian Germany allowed the Nazis to rise to power, too. what does that tell you?
60 posted on 02/23/2002 11:05:47 AM PST by Illbay
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