Posted on 02/15/2002 7:01:31 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
Welcome to The Green Dragon Inn
Approaching The Green Dragon Inn
Hobbiton, in The Shire
The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with eager feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And wither then? I cannot say.
- JRR Tolkien
Politics also goes ever on and on.
This is a place for FReeper Tolkien fans to come and take a break from the impure reality of conservative activism and relax a little with a great story. We (the other co-conspirators and I) would like to study together the writings of Tolkien, beginning together, and discussing as we go through The Lord of the Rings together.
This is a chapter discussion, roughly one chapter per week, with the discussion mostly centered on the books, though of course the movie will be contrasted and compared, and perhaps used to illustrate another interpretation of the story.
When we are ready to move on, someone from the group (maybe me) will ping The Green Dragon List to the new Chapter, but we will continue this one thread until it becomes too cumbersome . Let me know if you would like to be on - or off - this list. I will for now serve as the Thain of the list.
If you are joining late, jump right in, but please stick to the chapter currently being discussed.
Some have loved this story a long time, and some are newly discovering it. If you fit either category, we invite you to join in, but we would like this thread to stay mostly focused on the chapter at hand and keep moving, but at a pace everyone can keep up with No jumping ahead, and no lagging behind! If you have other news to report or wish to discuss something Tolkien in more general terms May we recommend the equally homey Hobbit Hole where my co-conspirators and I frequently have plenty of good talk.
One other request . This thread will get long. In recognition that images slow down the thread for many and take up bandwidth, lets keep the posting of images to a minimum on this thread. If there is a great illustration you wish to share, lets try to use links instead of images wherever possible.
So lets read, listen and become inspired by the many aspects of The Lord of the Rings that touch us deeply and reconnect us to the values we aspire to. Many great discussions have already been had, and I hope that this thread will produce even more. Many FReepers have wonderful things to say about LoTR, whether the fantasy reconnects them with their faith, with their relationships with friends and family, or simply illustrates the splendor of great acts of heroism and sacrifice in the constant battle of virtue versus corruption.
Though it is a work of fiction, we believe the inspiration to be gained can only help us in our larger political goals: to guard and defend our freedom, our culture and our political ideals. May the fellowship and insight gained from this discussion help us to work through the issues that are the basis for our many shared ideals.
Besides, we Tolkien fans* need something to keep us busy during the next two years of waiting for the next two films. If you do not enjoy this story, then please simply leave us be.
*Also known as Geeky Hobbity Weirdos, obsessive fanatics, you name it, we have heard it and we see these names as compliments. In other words: dont act like a troll, or we will distract you with our endless babble until the morning sun turns you to stone.
Hard to say. I can't imagine reading LOTR without having read the Hobbit, but I'm sure it is unnecessary. It certainly gave more life and color and background to the whole story for me.
The oddest single element signalling that we're close to The Hobbit's style (not in this chapter) is where Tolkien tells us what a fox is thinking! ("Hobbits! At this hour! Well, I'll be dipped!" -- or words to that effect.)
Dan
Granted, Gandalf does not yet know what the ring truly is, and even after the incredible struggle to give up the ring, clearly Bilbo still does not recognize the magnitude of its danger. But Frodo was not given a choice in the matter, and neither Gandalf or Bilbo appear to feel any guilt about inflicting him with it.
Gandalf never actually touches the ring does he? In the book, I mean (I'm sorry, I haven't done my homework yet--too busy with work).
I wonder, too, if he figured that the ring would have no real effect as long as Frodo never put it on or kept it with him. If he just had it in the house, hidden away somewhere, then it wouldn't be a problem--at least, maybe that was Gandalf's rationale.
The way Frodo responded to the ring--putting it away and never using it or taking it out--seemed to justify Gandalf's trust that the ring would not tempt him and would not have an effect on him...until and unless he used it.
-penny
This is clearly off-chapter but important, but how do we file Aragorn's age? He is clearly a young man by his description, although he says he is "older than he looks" he still appears to be a man in his prime. Any insight on the ages in Middle Earth?
Me either! He's definitely a mite touchy where Galadriel is concerned...
The burst of laughter this provoked startled my coworkers!
Dan
It seems to me that Tolkien basically doubled the age of English countrymen from his time to set the events normally seen in hobbits. Coming of age is 33 (16 to 17), 111 is an auspicious age (55 or so) and Bilbo living to around 130 before sailing off would be a ripe 65 for a early century English countryman.
Maybe I'm just a hobbit at heart, but I love every minute of it, and it's one chapter I've read and re-read just on its own.
But it's sort of a least-worst situation, isn't it? If he takes it, the world is a smoking ruin. If he picks it up with tongs, withstands the temptation to touch it, tosses it in the sea, it will turn up again.
But looking at Bilbo, who's had it for decades, it had become addictive, but had not utterly corrupted him. And he was able (if barely) to part with it, in the end. After DECADES of ownership and use.
And hehad no intent of Frodo having it that long.
So I suppose, having said all that, letting Frodo keep it was the "least-worst" of many bad scenarios.
Dan
..."Very well," said Bilbo, "it goes to Frodo with all the rest." He drew a deep breath "And now I really must be starting, or somebody else will catch me. I have said good-bye, and I couldn't bear to do it all over again." He picked up his bag and moved to the door."You have still got the ring in your pocket," said the wizard.
"Well so I have!" cried Bilbo. "And my will and all the other documents too. You had better take it and deliver it for me. That will be safest."
No, don't give the ring to me," said Gandalf. "Put it on the mantelpiece. It will be safe enought there, till Frodo comes. I shall wait for him."
Bilbo took out the envelope, but just as he was about to set it by the clock, his hand jerked back, and the packet fell on the floor. Before he could pick it up, the wizard stooped and seized it and set it in its place. A spasm of anger passed swiftly over the hobbit's face again. Suddenly it gave way to a look of relief and a laugh. "Well, that's that," he said. "Now I'm off!"...
Source is Appendix B.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.