Just what is a Libertarian?

Internet - Lost URL | FR Post 01-11-02 | Written by Deanna Corbeil

[jimt]

Fod, I still believe that one cannot be Libertarian AND be pro-life.

That's an exceptionally silly position, given all of us who've told you that we are. It's a major point of contention in the party. Were it not for certain people in the power structure, the party would very likely have a pro-life plank. You should read some of the older platforms. They were much more explicitly pro-abortion.

[Dane]

And yet you have been confronted with a half-dozen libertarians who have told you that they are pro-life

And in their party's platform(Libertarian) they say that abortion is to divisive an issue to talk about.

Oops I forgot the no force no fraud Libertarian tenant.

I guess the "pro-life" Libertarians abide by the no force no fraud tenant when it comes to "forcing" the issue.

[lormand]

"First of all, I'm a libertarian conservative, not a Libertarian."

I once took an online poll that asks political questions and depending on your answers, places you on a 2-D diamond shaped matrix. According to my answers, I was a a right-wing Libertarian.

I don't remember where it was online.

[texson66]

I have morals. I use those morals to decide how I will live my life. However, I have no right to use those morals to tell others how to live their lives. Likewise, politicians have no right to legislate morality. So then, if someone rapes your sister, it's ok because the rapist has a different set of morals? The problem is that the public schools and unoiversities have sold us all a bill of goods: that moralitity is relative.

[Benson_Carter]

you should worry more about the GOP making good on their party platforms, and their promise to make good on their pro-life posturing, which could affect many people, and worry less about the Libertarian Party platforms, which, in reality, affect no one.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Fod, I still believe that one cannot be Libertarian AND be pro-life. 172 posted on 1/11/02 2:00 PM Pacific by lormand

Why on earth would you willingly claim for yourself such a strange belief? It makes you look silly.

Libertarianism -- "No one has the right, under any circumstances, to initiate force against another human being, nor to delegate its initiation". (the Non-Aggression Principle)

This is the fundamental ethical principle of libertarianism. It denies you the "right" to initiate force to prevent gambling, or drug use, etc.... Defensive force against an aggressor is permitted (you are reacting, not initiating, against the force which someone else has introduced), but NEVER the initiation of force.

And so (as should be blatantly obvious), IF you believe that the unborn child is human, it disallows the initiation of force against the unborn child, "No one has the right... to initiate force against another human being...". IF a libertarian believes that the unborn child is human, his most fundamental ethical principle requires him to be pro-life. Or didn't you know that?

And you DO believe that the unborn child is a human being, right??

[lormand]

"And yet you have been confronted with a half-dozen libertarians who have told you that they are pro-life."

...and yet I say again to all half-dozen people, you can't be Libertarian and Pro-life!

[Benson_Carter]

that's great. do you care to continue our debate, or would you like to discuss online polls?

[Dane]

Uh could you let OWK answer the question, the question was directed towards him.

Btw you never answered the question about the Libertarians indifference towards abortion.

[CyberCowboy777]

Many Libertarians ARE Pro-Life and Agree that it should be prohibited. I happen to also think it should be a State ban.

Now, believe me that OWK and I disagree on many things. I as a Conservative, he as a Libertarian. Be sure though, not all Libertarians are the same and most can be better allies on more issues than some Republicans. (if that makes sense)

I would much rather have OWK and CubicleGuy in my corner that McCain.

Now of course some Libertarians think all Conservatives are the same.... (I am a member of the Constitution Party, not a Republican).

[dpa5923]

self ping so I can read all the replies later.

[Benson_Carter]

I wasn't answering your question, I was making a statement. I think I answered your second one, though. I'm not a Libertarian, so I have no idea about the indifference issue you raise. As a libertarian minded conservative who votes for conservative Republicans or abstains from voting for that candidate, I can only say I am ashamed of the GOP for not acting on their OWN party platforms, especially when they have control of ALL THREE branches of govt.

[CubicleGuy]

So then, if someone rapes your sister, it's ok because the rapist has a different set of morals?

(Sigh.)

Did the rapist initiate force against my sister? Did my sister ask to be raped?

I think the answer is no.

OK, now, select the correct answer, if you can: the rapist is / is not justified in raping my sister under libertarian philosophy.

[Dane]

Pinging tpaine, a well known pro-abortion Libertarian on FR.

Tpaine, are you in a major disagreement with your Libertarian brethren?

[weikel]

I agree Libertarians tend to be right on economic and personal issues but very very wrong and dangerous on security and international issues. I guess I would call myself a hawkish libertarian.

[CubicleGuy]

I think the answer is no.

Better clarify before somebody gets all upset.

I think the answer to the first question is yes, and the answer to the second question is no.

For all you budding lawyers out there.

[The Green Goblin]

Don't confuse party affiliation with ideology.

I won't if you won't...

[Dane]

I can only say I am ashamed of the GOP for not acting on their OWN party platforms

Are you ashmaed of this?

Bush Branded a Bully for Funding Ban Over Abortion

especially when they have control of ALL THREE branches of govt

Uh since June, Tommy Daschle(D-SD) has been in control of the Senate.

Oops, I forgot you are pro-marijuana, never mind.

[Hard Case]

"little dictator wannabes".....yes, we call them Libertarians. And they claim it all in the name of individual liberty.

I think you have deluded yourself as to what we really are. Please provide examples for your statement.