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Why Christians Don't Understand Non-Christians
ArGee | 1/3/01 | ArGee

Posted on 01/03/2002 11:19:13 AM PST by ArGee

A very rich man decided that he wanted to show kindness to the people of the fair city where he lived. Since he was very rich indeed, he decided to throw a banquet for the entire city. He rented the largest sports arena in the city and began his plans. He planned for huge amounts of the best food possible, making allowances for every religious and medical diet. He advertised the banquet in every possible manner - television, radio, billboard, door-to-door canvassing. Considering that there might be some who could not travel, he arranged for free bus transportation to and from the event, and some special-needs vehicles for all who could not ride busses. He even scheduled the banquet to run for 24 hours a day for several days so that everyone could be sure of being served.

He planned long and hard and finally the big day came. The rich man ate quickly and then went about wishing all his guests well and personally making sure that all had every need met. After a while he went outside to tour the grounds and talk with those who had not yet gone in, and those who had already left. Everyone was happy. Many were profusely thankful. It was a glorious occasion.

At one point the rich man noticed a group of people sitting outside a locked door with most unpleasant looks on their faces. Sensing they were not happy, he went over to them. He did not introduce himself but simply asked them if he could be of service.

"We want to go in through this door," one of them replied.

The rich man explained to them that the hall was arranged to feed a large number of people as quickly and effortlessly as possible. This required order inside, and the entrances and exits had been carefully planned to be as efficient as possible. He then offered to go call one of the golf carts that were avaialbe to help people who could not walk far to take them to the entrance. But the man replied, "We do not want to go in the entrance. We want to go in this door. We don't understand why we can't go in any door we wish. We think the man who set this banquet up is mean and hateful for insisting we go in through the entrance. He has tried to bill himself as a very kind man by offering this banquet, but he is not kind at all if he will not indulge us and let us go through this door.

The rich man was distressed at these words, but still attempted to please these people. He tried once more to explain to them what was behind this particular door, and how if they went in this door they would disrupt the meal service being offered inside. He offered to drive them himself, not only to the door, but inside the hall to their tables if they would only go through the entrance to enjoy the meal. Again the man said, "No, but only a hateful man would keep us from going through the door of our choosing. And we will sit here and tell anyone who will listen to us what an awful man he is until he lets us in."

At that the rich man was enraged and he shouted, "Enough." Then he called a police officer to have them thrown off of the property and ordered that they not be allowed to return until the banquet was over and all the scraps had been hauled away. Then, mourning for their loss, he turned to visit with other guests.


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To: Celtjew Libertarian
My comments were predicated on the traditional "eternal torment" notion of hell, advanced by most Christians.

If we redefine hell to be simply "the inavailability of the presence of God", my comments would likely have been different.

1,141 posted on 01/07/2002 9:53:04 AM PST by OWK
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To: occam's chainsaw
Unfortunately that was a few moves ago and the list is long gone. Wouldn't take long to make a new one. The quote I use now is from last year's election fiasco: "because of the higher rate of illiteracy ballots in primarily black precincts should have pictures of the candidates". That's an amazing quote to me. There he standing up on international TV saying black people can't tell the difference between B-U-S-H dash R and G-O-R-E dash D without pictures. If somebody white had said that the media would have destroyed them.

As for what it stems from that just shrink talk, threw that in for background (basically it aknowledges that the people in charge or figuring out how we think say it's possible). To me a bigot is a bigot and I really don't care who they're bigoted against or why.

1,142 posted on 01/07/2002 10:35:46 AM PST by discostu
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To: ArGee
I still think your analogy is flawed, but it's your analogy. It can be whatever you want it to be. :-)
1,143 posted on 01/07/2002 10:52:44 AM PST by LuvItOrLeaveIt
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To: discostu
Using what you understand the definiton of "bigot" to be, can you tell me if you believe I am a religious bigot for claiming that a lot of the Christians I have known have been intolerant snobs?
1,144 posted on 01/07/2002 10:59:48 AM PST by occam's chainsaw
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To: wattsmag2
Are there any references to hell outside of the bible? I'm wondering if it's just a Christian concept, or if other cultures have a hell?
1,145 posted on 01/07/2002 11:07:39 AM PST by stuartcr
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To: ArGee
Here's a title for your story:

"Invisible Rich Man Takes Over Park, Builds Giant Invisible Tent, Angers Many Local Residents who Want to Play Soccer, Leaves Big Mess To Clean Up."


1,146 posted on 01/07/2002 11:07:58 AM PST by RobFromGa
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To: Celtjew Libertarian
I'm afraid we don't agree with one another's analogies. I wonder if it is possible to come up with one that we can agree represents the situation to both your satisfaction and mine. Let me restate mine leaving out the child since you were side-tracked by the question of the child's will.

If someone points a gun to your head and tells you to accompany him into the liquor store, makes you hold the bag into which the terrified cashier puts the money, are you guilty of aiding him in robbing the liquor store? Do you feel that you had just as much choice in the matter as someone who does not have a gun to their head?

1,147 posted on 01/07/2002 11:18:21 AM PST by Anamensis
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To: stuartcr
Probably the roots go back to Greek myth. They had Hades, the realm of the dead. Hades was subdivided into areas of reward, punishment and just hanging around. Most people went to the just hanging around section (which in and of itself was a bit of a punishment as it was pretty boring, the shades didn't have anything to do), though most depictions show the punishment area being larger the punishments tended towards the elaborate and complex they weren't standardized by sin the way Dante set things up.

Since you asked about the Northern Tribes (Norsemen) I'll give you theirs. They had Hel (ruled by Hela, daughter of Loki) which was kid of like Hades only without the reward section, and Valhalla where the warriors that were true and good got rewarded (the reward being fighting in battle every day, to be resurrected at sunset and spend the night feasting and carousing with the gods), but at the price of being the soldiers for the gods in the big final at the end of time (interesting thing in the Norse myths, the world AFTER the big battle is supposed to be really nice because all good and evil will be destroyed in the battle thus leaving a world without conflict, it's the only religion I know where the good guy gods are actively working to prevent paradise). Interestingly the Norse religion (which probably has the closest approximation to Christian Heaven and Hell of any other) actually post dates (as near as we can tell) Christianity but predates the Northmen's exposure to Christianity.

1,148 posted on 01/07/2002 11:25:53 AM PST by discostu
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To: OWK
IF you have read and understood the Torah, the Prophets, etc. and the New Testament, you would not be making statements like the one above, and you would know that the God of Abraham is just, merciful, kind, generous, long-suffering, sensitive, loving, good, fore-bearing, forgiving, wonderful, truthful, beautiful, caring, worthy of being worshipped, glorious, magnificent, the Lord of lords, our Redeemer, the Prince of Peace, and more.
1,149 posted on 01/07/2002 11:32:47 AM PST by la$tminutepardon
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To: ArGee
Why am I (are we) here? Excellent question, isn't it? Just beware of those selling quick and cheap answers. They're probably selling something else.

The struggle for comprehension is the duty of any rational individual. Those who've given up the struggle aren't worth my time.

1,150 posted on 01/07/2002 11:43:56 AM PST by Noumenon
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To: Celtjew Libertarian
One is God acting; the other is God failing to act. Distinct difference.

I gather this is the same as the distinction between active and passive euthenasia. One is a person acting (giving an ovedose of drugs) to kill someone, while the other is a person failing to act (refilling a feeding tube mechanism when it becomes empty) to kill someone.
1,151 posted on 01/07/2002 11:44:27 AM PST by abandon
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To: occam's chainsaw
Well I haven't tracked that discussion closely but from what I'm seeing people are hounding you pointlessly. Looks to me like maybe you said something that struck a little to close to home for some people's comfort. "A lot" is a largely undefined term and these guys started talking percentages right away. If a sample set is large enough 1% can be "a lot", for instance if 1% of the Population of America did something that would be 2.8 million people, clearly "a lot".

"A lot" of just about any sizable subsection of humanity are intolerant snobs, that's just how it is. That applies to Christians, Jews, Hindus, Moonies and Atheists. It applies to fans of NFL football and fans of World Cup Soccer. That's just how it is. We're people, one of the great quests of the human mind is to be better than as many people as possible. Within your own mind most everything that sets you apart makes you better, even criminals will often talk about how "regular citizens" could never handle what they go through in prison. The well adjusted person knows that while they probably are better than those around them in some ways, they are also worse and in the end things even out. But not everybody is well adjusted, and these are the people who take that thing that sets them apart and make it HUGE and constantly assault you with it. These are the people we call snobs.

One of the things we need to understand is that the loud members of a group are the ones that define it to those outside the group. And more often than not the loud ones are the bad ones. You say "Christian" to most people that aren't and the first thing they think of is Jim Baker cheating on his wife and ripping people off. They think of fire and brimstone pulpit preachers promising eternal torture to the non-believer. They think of annoying people intruding on their home to give them pamphlets and try to make them change religion (sorry to anyone who is a JW or Mormon but to the rest of the world the door knockers are the most vile form of salesman). They think of yahoos burning book that supposedly portray witchcraft in a positive light. Even though these people represent a small percentage of the Christian population, there are a lot of them and they're all over the place.

1,152 posted on 01/07/2002 11:48:42 AM PST by discostu
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To: discostu
Thanks for the info. Any idea if any of the Native American tribes had a hell, (ie, you hear of the 'happy hunting grounds', but not of the opposite)or Pacific peoples? What about Central/South American peoples? I'm interested in seeing if there's a correlation between the concept of eternal punishment or hell, and a more sophisticated society. In other words, was hell developed by the thinkers/philosophers, or if it is a sort of inherent thing in people. I would be interested in knowing if there have been any cultures that did not have any negative aspects (hell/sin/punishment) in their interpretation of the creator/creation. Thanks
1,153 posted on 01/07/2002 11:52:23 AM PST by stuartcr
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To: Noumenon
Why is this struggle a duty of any rational individual?
1,154 posted on 01/07/2002 11:54:12 AM PST by stuartcr
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To: discostu
I agree - the whole thing is pointless. You made some very good points and I appreciate your input. I agree that the hounding is pointless, especially when it can be argued that every single living person is a "bigot" in some way or another.

Dictionary.com defines "bigot" as:
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

1,155 posted on 01/07/2002 12:04:27 PM PST by occam's chainsaw
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To: stuartcr
Why is this struggle a duty of any rational individual?

Consider the alternative....

1,156 posted on 01/07/2002 12:09:07 PM PST by Noumenon
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To: stuartcr
Thanks for the info. Any idea if any of the Native American tribes had a hell, (ie, you hear of the 'happy hunting grounds', but not of the opposite)or Pacific peoples? What about Central/South American peoples?

I read a book called Hach Winik on Central American Mayans who've had very little European contact, and they have a concept of afterlife that is comparable to hell.

1,157 posted on 01/07/2002 12:15:57 PM PST by Anamensis
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To: Noumenon
The alternative is the lack of comprehension of why we are here. No one knows that anyway, even if they thought they did, it's not provable, so why the duty?
1,158 posted on 01/07/2002 12:32:43 PM PST by stuartcr
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To: Anamensis
Thanks
1,159 posted on 01/07/2002 12:38:46 PM PST by stuartcr
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To: stuartcr
Look under Hades(both Greek and Roman), Aralu, Orun Buburu, Quetzalcoatl, Osiris, Annwfn, and Ahriman to start.
1,160 posted on 01/07/2002 12:40:06 PM PST by wattsmag2
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