Oil from Coal....Boon, Bane, or Boondoggle? (posted 12/31/2001)

various links | 12-31-01 | backhoe

[backhoe]

On the way to "looking up other things" I ran across an old subject- converting coal & other solid-fuel products to liquid or gaseous fuel.

Pioneered by Nazi Germany during WWII, it was also used in South Africa during sanctions against that country.

America has some of the world's largest coal reserves, so the question becomes, "is it a viable alternative to petroleum products which we now import from hostile lands?"

An MBendi Profile: South Africa - History of the Chemical ...
... started producing oil from coal in 1955 its origins can be traced back to 1895 when
coal was first mined on both sides of the Vaal River near Vereeniging. The ...

Coal and Wastes as Oil Alternative Energy and Chemicals
... New thermal degradation methods for producing oil from coal and
biomass using novel dispersed catalysts were presented. ...

Coal Virtual Library
... coke, aggregates, industrial sands and ores. [Published by: KMAC, USA] dot Oil-from-coal
Process The Sasol process starts in the gasification plant where coal ...

Millennium Debate Links Section
... Oil From Coal Process The Sasol process, how coal can be
converted to Crude Gas in the right environment..... ...

Oil Industry Resources
... the expense of fuel oil which is primarily used for bunkering. Oil from coal synfuels
plants owned by Sasol provide a significant proportion of South Africa’s ...

Painting the Town -- Museum of the City of New York
... by the World War II -era development of a process for extracting oil from coal and
the emergence of diesel-fueled ships' engines. Today, the Franklin Delano ...

CHAPTER FOUR: Standard Oil Fuels World War II
... It was announced by Teagle that joint research work on production of oil from coal
had been carried on for some time and that a research laboratory for this ...

Running On Empty
... Fleay's economic heresy extends to questioning whether oil from
coal and other sources will ever come to the rescue. ...
www.swenson.com/ron/961024b.htm - 9k - Cached - Similar pages

PDF] Enhanced Oil Recovery Potential in the United States
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
... to produce synthetic oil from coal, enhanced recovery ... In Place... . .
23 Petroleum Reservoirs ...

---

In reviewing this, note the references to early efforts- South Africa circa 1890, New York City in WWII, and the inter-war years activity of Standard Oil.

[isthisnickcool]

We need a Manhattan type project with one goal. Total energy independence from the rest of the world.

[Alberta's Child]

I've read several published sources indicating that the oil reserves in the tar sands region of northern Alberta are substantial enough to maintain current levels of consumption in North America for 500 years. The major problem was getting it out -- Suncor developed an extraction method back in the 1980s that allows them to mine it (as opposed to drilling it) for about $12 per barrel, and the area around Fort McMurray has experienced a tremendous boom over the last two decades. As time goes on, the problem is that the oil will be more difficult to extract. The oil sands are between two layers of the earth's crust that angle down from the surface, and as time goes on it will be necessary to extract it from greater depths.

In addition to these issues, you have to keep in mind that Saudi oil is much more "pure" and does not require much refining, while tar sands oil is about as crummy as it gets and must be refined extensively.

[backhoe]

a Manhattan type project with one goal. Total energy independence

No argument from me... even France had the wits after the '73 embargo to launch their Super Phoenix reactor program and now get about 75% of electric power from nuclear plants. We should not have gotten so far behind.

[James Lewis]

We need a Manhattan type project with one goal. Total energy independence from the rest of the world.

I partially agree. We need to plan for energy independence but it should not be a secret. And, the problem is energy independence, not oil independent. We may be displaying some ignorance or arrogance in thinking in terms of oil only. There are other ways of getting around and heating things up. I've lived in cultures where transportation was not dominated by automobiles. There are advantages to not having to own, maintain, and store one or more cars. And, too many people accept driving and/or commuting an hour or more each way to work. Our culture puts us in a position of being energy dependent. It doesn't have to be that way.

[deport]

....I recall a post here around a month or so ago where the Canadians were claiming to have gotten oil-shale extraction costs down to the $12 a barrel range, whereas it had been around $35+ a barrel.....

Don't know about the $12 bbl price but here are a couple articles on oil shale... not the easiest process going and still expensive.

• Shell Exploration Co. project in Colorado

• SHALE OIL--THE ELUSIVE ENERGY

[aristeides]

I wonder to what extent the environmental movement may have been funded by oil-producing countries and the oil industry. Does anybody know?

[backhoe]

Appreciate that info- it jogs my memory; that's about what I recall reading a month or so ago.

[backhoe]

Appreciate the links- saved to disc!

[stylin_geek]

However, our society does allow us the choice to drive to and from work, or not, as the case may be. Right now, if the greenies have their way, this choice will be removed, through government policy. Be very careful when you talk about how society can be remolded, as this is a euphemism for government control and or policy which strikes at the very foundation of our freedoms.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

Add it in, then. My $10 was a pure hip-shot without factual basis. However, I would suggest the cost of gasoline is underwritten by many other things, including our friendship with the Saudis which many Americans are finding distasteful.
The various tar sands projects in Alberta are the sleeping giant in the North American oil patch. Shell, Suncor (Sun Oil of Canada) Koch and a half dozen other oil companies are mining this stuff, cooking it on site and shoving the light crude down the Interprovincial and other crude pipelines into the US and over to Canadian refineries at Sarnia. Within a few years, 850,000 to 1 million bbls/day will flow from this source. Best of all, its in friendly hands--not even the idiots in US Congress can prevent it.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

Exxon tried oil shale near Rifle, Colorado in the early 1970's. I think they mined and crushed the stuff into two to four inch topsize, then irradiated the shale to get the oil to come out. Trouble was, the four inch chunks swelled up to six inches, so if the process had been followed (it took $40 crude to payout) the hillsides and mountains would become large spoil piles several hundred feet taller than when the project began.
Take that concept to your weekly Greenpeace meeting and whattaya get ?

[deport]

Yep... remove the shale leave a hole and then fill it back up but the problem is what do you do with the excess material after it's expanded from the heating process.... LOL. I thought the increase size was bigger but I couldn't remember.

Gulf Oil was there also and had prefected their operation to a point that they asked the Feds to raise their production quota from their current level and the Feds told them to get another 80 something enviormental permits... Needless to say Gulf said see you later.

[Mind-numbed Robot]

I wonder to what extent the environmental movement may have been funded by oil-producing countries and the oil industry. Does anybody know?

I do, but I can't say, it's classified. :-) Now that was a waste of bandwidth, wasn't it?

[Eric in the Ozarks]

In any mining endeavor, a 25 percent swell factor should be considered in turning bank yards into heaped yards. (Surface mining a four or five foot coal seam will still leave the ground higher, not lower.) Another way to see this is to dig a hole in your back yard, even taking out the rocks you find, then try to get all the dirt back in the same hole--it won't fit.
I recall the swelling from Exxon's (and maybe Gulf's too) irradiation was in additional to the usual swell factor. The public relations implications were enormous.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

These folks didn't need any help to become as stupid as they are.

[VMI70]

Aha! I knew I remembered a post by someone about this. It must have been you who wrote it. To me, it is a fascinating story and seems like the resource has great potential. Thanks for the update!

FReegards,

[backhoe]

Good golly! This thing's still going?

Thank you all for your comments, links, and info!

[Old Professer]

I believe you refer to the Jojoba plant; interestingly, the chemical composition of its oil is compatible with sperm-whale oil and GM used it as a differential additive for their "Posi-Lok" limited-slip rearend and front differentials so that they could better negotiate turns; the whales had become protected and their oil wasn't plentiful, so science came to the rescue.

The above sentence was from memory, so I checked Google.com, here's what I got: Click for site

[VMI70]

Hey, it's a good thread and this subject needs addressing.

Thank YOU.

FReegards, and Happy New Year!

[backhoe]

GM used it as a differential additive for their "Posi-Lok" limited-slip rearend

Well, I'll be dogged! Didn't know that!