Posted on 12/21/2001 11:34:36 AM PST by onedoug
"You got me plum-hypnotized," Elmer Gantry says to Sister Sharon Falconer in that film/novel.
Is that the case with me over Joyce Meyer?
She seems pretty good at down-home preachin'. And while not a classic beauty, she yet ministers out a fair amount sex appeal, along with the word.
(I think, ultimately, it's those Texas/Missouri eyes.)
I post this to philosophy since, as I know she has a fair amount of, at least internet detractors, it yet seems that her ability to project the Word, is as anchored in the integrity of faith as any other TV preacher I can recall.
...Except perhaps the late Bishop Fulton J Sheen.
In short though, Meyer lately fascinates me, and I'm curious what other Freepers may think. Particularly Evangelicals!
Thanks, and Merry Christmas to All!
I would say Reform doctrine sees God as sovereign over life and death..but that is true in most churches. (I go to a non reform church, when I was going to fly over Thanksgiving my friends there told me not to worry about it because "if it was my time ,it was my time",I told them I was carring a very heavy purse cause I wasn't going down easily:>)
I believe most Christians believe there is a time to be born and a time to die. But I think I can say that a Calvinist might see the illness as part of Gods plan,that could bring the gospel to another or in some other way have a divine purpose. but your prayer might be part of that plan too...or the doctor might be part of that plan. In the case of your friend God was as much in charge when the mother went to the calvinist chruch as He was when she switched churches. It was the same sovereign God that healed the child..to the Glory of God. God didnt change,His will didnt change. Perhaps the one not hearing God in all this was the first pastor. The prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
Recently a godly young husband and father (28yrs old)from my church was killed the day before Thanksgiving. What a tragedy! The wife gave a eulogy at his funeral. One hundred people came to the altar after she spoke.Both she and her father in law see her beloved husbands death as the hand of God ..meant to bring the others to Christ.(remember this is an Arminian church). They have no anger at God. Their grief is tempered by the way God used the death..
It is not easy to let God be God. We all would like his job:>) On your friends daughter do not assume that it was an act of man that saved the child .. remember how long he let his friend in the tomb before bringing him back to life..God's timing is perfect!
You questioned if it were my opinion, Hank's opinion, or the Holy Spirit's leading in forming an opinion about Joyce Meyer. I believe as Christians we have the Holy Spirit living in us, quickening our hearts to the truth and leading us in the right way, convicting us when necessary. I truly feel God's Holy Spirit spoke to my heart regarding Meyer. It wasn't until months later that I read Hank's opinion of her.
I hope this post answers your questions.
Wow. What a gem. Thanks for posting it!
Like the young man's death my father's also brought several to Christ. Some rededicated themselves to Him after a "dead spell". He left this world with a testimony. His own agnostic ENT physicain was saved.
She's never before had a panic attack. She has had sinus infections and allergies, no ADD or ear infections. The doctor checked her the following day. I explained to him what occurred and I voluntarily left the room, so my daughter (she's 16) could feel free to confide if anything else was amiss (there wasn't). My doctor knows my family members' history (as he is also their physician) and has attributed part of the emotional problems in my family (anxiety attacks with half sister, depression with other half sister, and still yet other problems with myself) in part to my step mother. He knows my family are Christians and has expressed some negative comments about one of my sibling's and my stepmother's behavior, expressing surprise that Christians would act in such a way. It's quite embarrassing to have individuals make negative comments about my "Christian family." My father was born again 30 years ago; my stepmother about 29; my siblings were raised as Christians, going to Awana during their youth and attending youth groups as well.
My doctor believed my daughter had a panic attack. I believe it was provoked by my half-sister's conduct--she was like a light switch, all of a sudden she went off over a misunderstanding). My daughter was raised to be respectful of adults and she tried to explain herself in a respectful manner, but my half-sister wouldn't allow it, jumping, instead, all over her. Couple this with my daughter being surrounded by her other aunt, uncle, grandmother, sister, and me. She hasn't had a recurrence of this but the doctor explained what to do should it happen again. But, then again, I have slowly removed myself and my children from being around the family as much. I was mistreated growing up and do not want this repeated with my daughters.
I listen to Charles Stanley from time to time. There are a few issues I question but overall he's a good teacher. I guess my big thing about Meyer was the pscyo-babble she tended to lean on when I took time to listen to her. On one hand her comments are logical and worth taking note...on the other hand, she tended to rely on psychology rather than the word of God. After praying about it I felt the Lord leading me in a different direction.
Hank quoted her in his surmation of her message...some of the quotes are worth taking a second look at (in my first post). Could you comment on them of how Biblically sound they are? Thank you.
Wise decision. Sadly, I had to remove my children from the presence of their paternal grandmother because of her wild mood swings...for which she refused to seek help. (years later she was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder) She would verbally attack me, the kids or anyone else.. if she was having a bad day. I took alot of flack from the rest of the family over distancing myself and the kids. I was told I should be more accepting and "that's just the way Grandma is". *chuckle* Nothing is worth putting your kid through an emotional meat-grinder. It was Grandma's choice to not seek help... so she missed alot of joy in seeing her grandkids grow up.
We agree on that..but sometimes God needs a litle strength to get someones attention. Could be on her way home she wondered what it was about her church that upset you. Could be that God used that moment to convict her..you will not know till the day of judgement..Remember the Jesus some saw in the temple that day?? he was tough and judgemental, because it was His fathers name that was being offended.Trust that in some way God used that day for His glory...
Weeellll...I can't add a thing to the case that Viva La Homeschool and Matchett PI et al. have made. Scripture is clear on the role of women (and men) in the church.
But what do I think? Battleax. I have a mental picture of her chasin' her man, frying pan in hand. She struts to and fro looking extremely self-satisfied and amused at her vapid remarks and insights. I'm only more put off by the apostasy of smilin' Bob Schuller.
BTW, I received the Lord at a Billy Graham crusade a good number of years ago, and his has been an extremely powerful ministry for decades. But in the last 10 years or so, he has shown signs of, er, "softening" with regard to sound doctrine. If he indeed claims, as George Jr. relates, that some people are "born Christian" and others are born again, he has pretty much thrown a wrench into the whole of the Bible and Christendom. Ie, if some folks are "born Christin", there would be no need for Jesus. The quote I cite was on another thread which was pulled. You know-"...Is Gdub a Christian", from Carol Hu Tex. I can't speak for the veracity of the quote as it was delivered in Bushease, but if it is true, Dr. Graham is vacillating wildly and needs prayer to "stand firm".
2 Timothy 4:19 2 Timothy 4 2 Timothy 4:18-20 "Salute Prisca and Aquila, and the household of Onesiphorus."These two must be precious to him for him to have used the familiar, or petname.
Two other refernces which give the flavor of his regard and some inkling of their function:
Romans 16:3 Romans 16 Romans 16:2-4 "Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:"
1 Corinthians 16:19 1 Corinthians 16 1 Corinthians 16:18-20 "The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house."
While historic Christianity has debated the issue of whether or not Jesus actually descended into hell (e.g., to proclaim the gospel, declare victory, etc. [1 Peter 3:18-19), no orthodox believer ever held to the belief that Christ suffered and atoned for our sins in hell, rather than on the cross.
I believe that this is one of the most "popular" subjects of debate in the Bible. While no one save the Lord knows for sure, I would say that Christ may have very well gone into hell as 1 Peter 3:20 goes onto say that the spiritis He ministered to were those of the disobedient in the days of Noah. Hell is often defined as the grave or the pit. Depends on what word grave, prison, and hell is translated from. In Ephesians4:8-9 We see that Jesus led captivity captive and that He descended into the lower parts of the earth.
Now spirits don’t have bodies, so we can’t see them. Okay? There probably is, I believe there is, and I certainly hope there is several angels up here this morning that are preaching with me. I believe that right before I speak some anointed statement to you, that one of them bends over and says in my ear what I’m supposed to say to you.12
"...preaching with me". Ahh, Ministering spirits. The bible plainly tells us that angels ministered unto Jesus. We know that they are messengers of God. Why would it be difficult to believe that the SAME angels that carried God's messages and that ministered unto our Lors can't do the same today?
Turning instead to her subjective feelings she says, I am going to tell you something right now. I no more believe that my God is going to let me stand around and believe a lie than I believe that I am going to turn green in the next two minutes. God is my source and He loves me and I am after God with my whole heart. And if I am accidentally, or any other way, getting into error, I am going to have a bell go off on the inside of me that is going to be so loud that not only am I going to hear it, but so is everybody else.14
Is God going to let us fall into error without warning? Yes, we are subject to error as we are Humans. But if we are fully Ephesians 6:13-20 prepared, will He allow it WITHOUT a warning?? I do not believe so. If we are led by the Spirit of God will we be led astray? If we choose to IGNORE His warnings, then yes we may proceed on our merry way into error.
Also problematic are some of Meyer’s beliefs regarding spiritual warfare. According to her, for instance, generational spirits supposedly torment families for generations with specific sins, and she even believes that a demon of lust torments her family. On one occasion she says,
I told you that there was a spirit of incest in my family bloodline….And the thing that I want you to understand today is when there’s a spirit like that in a bloodline, until some person believes on Jesus and takes the blood of Jesus and draws it across that natural bloodline, that devastation goes on for generations and generations….Well see, my father’s grandfather had problems and so his father had problems and so my dad had problems and so I had problems and so if I wouldn’t have stood and believed Jesus, my kids would have had problems and their kids would have had problems and so on and so on.15
Spiritual warfare, another "controversial" subject with Hank. "We war not against flesh and blood but against principalities, against powers,, against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places".(Eph 6:12) Familiar spirits are mentioned many times in the OT. The word "owb" is used in the texts meaning one who has a familiar spirit. Looking at the word familiar we know that it means to be acquainted with. God is very specific about the sins ( and the curses they bring ) of one generation being passed on throughout the lineage to futire generations. Is there a specific mention of generational curses? No, but one can surmise that incest is a sin and that according to the bible this sin ( thus bringing with it a curse if unrepented ) can be "passed on" unless repented of or "broken" by the authority of Jesus through the Holy Spirit.
I listen to scientists and psychologists talking about genetics and inheriting genes and I wonder. The abused child who goes on to abuse his/her child makes me wonder. The drug addicted father who has drug addicted children makes me wonder. The grandmother who has breast cancer and who daughter and granddaughter end up having breast cancer makes me wonder. Are these things anger ( abuse ), addiction, and disease, not from the enemy?
I think my concern is that Hanengraaff and others take snipets of teachings and quotes ( as Cloud did with Graham's comments from the 50's and 60's no less ) without displaying them in their entire context to his readers. As we all know, the Spirit of God teaches all things to us and we do not all have the same gifts or understandings ( maturity level ). I would not discredit someone based upon another man's interpretations or critiques of partial statements. I would listen through, along with my bible, in prayer for revelation of and understanding of His word.
Pardon my inability to comprehend today but are you saying that you DO find these women more admirable than the men who abandoned them or that you don't. The "yet" in your statement is throwing me off. Maybe it's the cloud cover here and the anticipation of snow. :)
Did you notice that when they did as instructed that the men still did not believe them and that Peter had to go see for himself? Even when they saw His empty tomb they and saw that He was not there ( just as the woman had told them ) they were still "slow to believe" and Jesus called them "fools" for that.
Goodness, men still haven't changed! :-)
Yes, He certainly was. Any nation that upholds Christ is a nation where women are treated with more equality with men. It is because of Christ's influence on that nation's laws and the people who love Him. I also like to think about how Christ treated the sisters, Martha and Mary. Even in his rebuke to Martha, who was acting childish, Christ was loving. Of Mary He said "Truly I say to you, wherever this gospel is preached in the whole world, what this woman [Mary] has done shall also be spoken of in memory of her." (Matt. 26:13)
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