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Ok dissenters. You can ask when he was shot if you like, and create straw man scenarios. That does nothing to explain why these whistle blowers allowed their careers to be destroyed. All they said was Brown needs an autopsy. So did Representative Maxine Waters. So did Alan Keyes. Even Dick Gregory.

I will now, God willing, resume my monthly reminder of this coverup, after holding back several weeks, keeping it low key during our war against the Taliban.

1 posted on 12/21/2001 9:26:02 AM PST by Arthur Wildfire! March
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
Earlier thread.

Freegards....

2 posted on 12/21/2001 9:30:09 AM PST by Arthur Wildfire! March
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
When was he shot?
4 posted on 12/21/2001 9:37:39 AM PST by bayourod
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
Dick Gregory actually went to prison over this. He was arrested for putting crime-scene tape around the Reno Justice Department and holding an interview. He spent Christmas in jail. And the story was played up big, for a few days, in black NY newspapers and on Black Entertainment Television. Jackson himself spoke out, for a day or two.

Then the clinton spin machine went to work, presumably Jackson was paid off, and suddenly there was complete silence. Only Ruddy continued to cover the story. It was undoubtedly the best work he has ever done, much better than his coverage of other clinton scandals.

Dick Gregory deserves credit for being among the few to put himself on the line for this story. And the worst shame belongs to the NY Times, The Washington Post, and the other major media for covering up an obvious case of murder, in which clinton killed a whole planeload full of people just to get one man, about to be indicted, who had threatened the previous week that "if he went down, he would make sure than clinton went down too."

Most, although not all, of Chris Ruddy's Ron Brown Reports are still on line at NewsMax: http://www.newsmax.com/articles/?a=1999/1/31/173313 . For those who are unfamiliar with the topic, they make compelling, and absolutely convincing, reading.

7 posted on 12/21/2001 9:50:19 AM PST by Cicero
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
Just a few corrections:

Also strange, another body was cremated against the wishes of the family, the result of some 'beaurocratic snafoo.'

Just to prevent misunderstanding. Brown's body was NOT cremated but the body of the stewardess who was supposedly found alive in the wreckage was ... before her family was even notified, which is against Air Force regulations. Brown's body is still available ... waiting to be exhumed and autopsied and if there was a murder the evidence to prove it will still be there too.

Being in the area, he undoubtedly heard about an air traffic controller. The Croatian air traffic controller who was in charge of the nearby airfield reportedly shot himself with a shotgun a few weeks after the crash. The reason for the reported suicide was over the loss of a girl friend.

The person who SUPPOSEDLY shot himself with the shotgun was the chief maintenance officer at the airport ... the person in charge of the missing airport beacon. His suicide was reported by the NY Times as being a result of a failed romance.

Someone dropped by to visit him. It was Kathleen Janowski. She handed him some very interesting photographs.

Just to clarify .... Janowski only did this AFTER she was told by Major Sentell that Colonel Gormley (who did the examination of Brown's body) had tampered with the x-rays of Brown because they showed a lead snowstorm.

The word is getting out in the military that it doesn't matter if a high level politician is killed, you best follow orders. This is a dangerous message. Such orders are highly unlawful.

Absolutely right.

All you have to do is try to find two people this month to help spread the word about this coverup. Don't say that Brown was shot. Just say that Brown should have an autopsy and the people who wrecked those whistle blowers' careers must be court martialed.

Sounds like a good plan to me.

11 posted on 12/21/2001 9:54:17 AM PST by BeAChooser
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
PING!
19 posted on 12/21/2001 10:14:31 AM PST by Saundra Duffy
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
The sad news is that the Bush administration will continue in the cover-up.
27 posted on 12/21/2001 12:46:23 PM PST by Nephi
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
The average DNC voter has no idea what he or she is supporting. When they find out, our nation is set free.

Just one question: Why has Bush not reopened this case? I know he's had his hands full since Sept. 11, but did he show the slightest interest in this or any other Clinton "irregularity" during the first seven months of his tenure?

There seems to be an unwritten law that says incoming presidents will not investigate the scandals of the previous administration. It's akin to the law about not assassinating other heads of state. Those in power form a very elite club, and they all stick together. The rest of us are just the slaves who row the ship.

I don't mean to discourage you in finding the truth about Brown's death. As with Foster's death, the string of coincidences (missing photos, broken X-ray machines, improbable suicides, shoddy investigations, no autopsy, ...ad nauseum) is just too absurd for any thinking person to believe it was all just an unfortunate accident. Perhaps your method of spreading the truth in geometric progression will someday lead to a real investigation.

28 posted on 12/21/2001 12:59:07 PM PST by giotto
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
Very interesting. I had heard about this, but had never seen the photos before. I found em through a link posted in this thread.

I did something real simple which I'm sure a lot smarter people have done before me, which anyone with a ruler can do - I actually took the time to measure the size of the hole against the ruler in the photo.

I tried it in 2 different directions, and I got the following results: about 6.5 sixteenths and about 6.6 sixteenths of an inch.

So a quick poke at the calculator gave me a rough size for the hole of between .406 inch and .413 inch.

Or, when I converted that to millimeters, that would make the hole roughly between 10.3 millimeters and 10.5 millimeters.

I found a place on the web where it says a bullet hole can be a little bit larger or smaller than the actual caliber. I also found one of the actual experts talking about this case, who had said the hole didn't look like a hole from a .45, but more like from a .40 caliber or a 10mm gun.

So then I looked out on the web for some info about these calibers and I found a couple of interesting tidbits -

"During 1990, the 10mm Auto gained even more credibility as a self defense cartridge when the FBI abandoned the 9mm Parabellum and officially adopted the larger caliber. Other law enforcement agencies are sure to follow suit."

And more recently: "All FBI agents are issued service weapons upon graduation from the FBI academy at Quantico, Va. -- currently Glock .40-caliber semiautomatic pistols -- and many agents have several weapons issued to them, officials said."

Obviously, 10 mm and .40 caliber are real close in size. I don't know what other agencies might use one or the other of these calibers, but it's obvious that guns that fire bullets the size of the hole in Ron Brown's head are used by some agencies of the U.S. government.

All of which leads us right back to suspecting what we already suspected - that the hole was not likely made by a flying umbrella.

So will we ever find out the complete story? It would be nice, but my guess is, probably about as much as we know the whole story on Kennedy.

31 posted on 12/21/2001 1:57:28 PM PST by butter pecan fan
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
a specatacular event; I urge anyone to read Chris Ruddy's articles in pittsburgh tribune review from years ago. A lot of people know about Ruddy's work on the Foster case and his book which is the best source for the foster murder. But he also spent some time investigating the Brown crash, not enough time for a book, but some very good articles in that paper's archives.
37 posted on 12/22/2001 1:29:24 AM PST by Red Jones
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
Report from Washington

A summary of a telephone conference with Chief Petty Officer Kathleen Janoski USN conducted by a group of concerned citizens.

On Wednesday, October 28, 1998, a group of citizens from various parts of the country talked with Kathleen Janoski. CPO Janoski was the Chief of the Forensic Photography Division at the Office of the Armed Forces Medical Examiner in the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology (“AFIP”) and is a 22-year veteran of the Navy. The subject of the discussion was the hole in Secretary of Commerce Ron Brown’s skull that looked like a bullet hole.

Background

On April 3, 1996, while transporting Mr. Brown and 34 others, an Air Force CT-43 executive transport crashed near Dubrovnik, Croatia. Thirty three of the bodies, including Ron Brown’s, were flown to Dover Air Force Base, Delaware, where they were examined by AFIP personnel. At the time of the crash, Mr. Brown was under investigation by the Office of Independent Counsel (Mr. Daniel Pearson was the Special Prosecutor) and was under subpoena to produce documents concerning the sale of seats on trade missions in a civil law suit by Judicial Watch. The official determination of the cause of Mr. Brown’s death was blunt force trauma.

On November 24, 1997, shortly after the Air Force released a voluminous report of its investigation of the crash, an article concerning the report was published in the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. On December 3, another article included statements by one of the pathologists on the AFIP team, Lt. Colonel Steven Cogswell (USAF) that there was a perfectly round hole, inward-beveled, in Mr. Brown’s skull that looked like a bullet hole. However, no autopsy was performed.

On December 5, Cogswell was put under a gag order. At about that time, he was escorted to his home by military police who seized all case materials on the Brown case.

On December 9, Lt. Colonel David Hause (U.S. Army) another AFIP pathologist and a leading expert on gun shot wounds, confirmed Cogswell’s statements. The gag order was broadened to include all AFIP personnel.

On January 8, 1998, the Department of Justice reported that it had looked into the matter and saw no reason to launch an investigation. No one from DOJ talked to Cogswell or Hause.

On January 9, the Washington Post reported that the AFIP had convened a review panel of all its pathologists that had unanimously concluded that Brown died of blunt force trauma and that the hole was not a gunshot wound. But Cogswell says he refused to participate in the review and that the only pathologists with expertise in bullet wounds dissented (i.e. himself, Hause & Major Thomas Parsons of the USAF).

Shortly after the Post article, Major Parsons came forth to indicate his dissent to the so-called “unanimous” board conclusion.

On January 13, a fourth member of the AFIP team, Chief Petty Officer Janoski, came forth to confirm the account of the skull hole. She further indicated that she had been told by Jeanmarie Sentelle, a Special Agent with the Naval Criminal Investigative Service, that x-rays of Brown’s skull had been destroyed after the “lead snowstorm” was discovered. According to Sentelle, a “lead snowstorm” on x-rays is caused by bullet fragments when a bullet disintegrates upon impact.

Also on January 13, Cogswell, Parsons, Janoski and Larry Klayman of Judicial Watch met with Congressman John Conyers, a member of the Congressional Black Caucus. The Caucus is composed of 30 Congressmen, all Democrats. The Caucus called for a Congressional investigation and was supported by the NAACP, the Nation of Islam and Dick Gregory.

On February 12, a Petition to Order Continuation of the Independent Counsel’s Investigation into Matters Related to Former Secretary of Commerce Ronald H. Brown was filed in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia. The NAACP and Dick Gregory filed documents in support of the petition. Apparently the court declined to decide the matter and referred it to Mr. Pearson for action. Apparently no action has been taken.

Although the mainstream media was eerily silent about most of the developments outlined here, Black Entertainment Television and Christian Broadcasting Network and a few others provided some coverage. Talk radio has provided coverage of the matter. Unfortunately most people know nothing about the hole in the skull.

A collection of articles appears at:

http://www.newsmax.com/articles/?a=1999/1/31/173313

The Account of CPO Kathleen Janoski

Janoski’s duties included photographing the bodies from head to toe. Beginning at the head of Ron Brown, she saw a perfectly round hole in his skull. She said something to the effect “Wow. That looks like a bullet hole.” She immediately was “shushed” by Colonel William Gormley, the AFIP pathologist examining Brown’s body. She repeated her statement and was again “shushed.” Hearing her comment, others in the room came to Brown’s body and looked at the hole. The hole was viewed by Hause, Gormley, Commander Edward Kilbane (USN) – all pathologists – and Lt. Colonel Craig Mallak who was doing his residency in pathology. There may have been other personnel in the room who saw the hole as well. Janoski’s photo of the apparent bullet hole can be viewed on the internet at:

http://www.newsmax.com/rbrown/photos.shtml

On the light box at the morgue were x-rays of Brown’s skull which were photographed by Janoski. Ironically, her purpose in photographing the x-rays was to test the light meter in her camera rather than record evidence. The photos of the x-rays became critically important when the x-rays apparently disappeared. The Brown files contain 15 x-rays of other parts of the body and the file cover indicates that there are 15 x-rays, indicating that the file is intended to support the conclusion that no skull x-rays were taken.

While photographing Brown’s body, Janoski was urged to hurry by Bob Veasey, AFIP investigator working with Colonel William Gormley, referring to “White House pressure.”

On the Friday following the crash but before the bodies had arrived at Dover Air Force Base, Kilbane, the team leader, attended a meeting at the West wing of the White House (where the Oval Office is located). On Saturday, a memorial service was held for Brown. President Clinton spoke. On Sunday (Easter) the bodies were examined by the AFIP team.

Cogswell did not view the hole in the skull as he was dispatched to the crash site in Croatia soon after the bodies arrived at Dover. While in Croatia, he was called by Gormley who asked that he check the wreckage to see what might have caused the hole that he described to Cogswell. Cogswell responded to Gormley that, as described, it sounded like a bullet hole. Cogswell checked the wreckage and photos were taken of objects that might have caused such an injury but nothing was found that could have been the cause of the hole. Gormley’s call to Cogswell came after Brown’s body had been embalmed and released for burial.

Gormley initially stated that the wound was not a bullet hole because it did not penetrate the skull and because the brain was not visible. Later he reversed himself saying that the skull was penetrated and that Brown’s brain was visible. He also confessed that no autopsy was ever requested “[b] ased on discussions at the highest level from in Commerce, at the Joint [Chief of Staff] and the [Department of Defense], the White House …”

Summary

Although it seems clear that there is a perfectly round, inward beveled hole measuring .45 inches in Ron Brown’s skull and that no autopsy was performed, the media has failed to inform the American people about this matter. From pictures of skull x-rays, it appears that that there may be metal fragments in the skull. Apparently the x-rays have been destroyed and official records now indicate that there never were any. Colonel Gormley indicated that the decision not to have an autopsy was made with participation by the White House. It is important that as many people as possible see this report.

60 posted on 12/30/2001 12:06:17 PM PST by dawnal
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
Haven't seen you around for a long time, Old Timer. Wuz hap'n!
64 posted on 12/30/2001 12:29:11 PM PST by RoarNLion
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
I heard a rumor,probably an internet legend,but Im not going to voice it until I confirm the date that the plane crashed in Dubrovnik.Do remember what it was?
70 posted on 12/30/2001 1:31:50 PM PST by cardinal4
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
ONE OF THE BEST STIE----Tripping With the Secretary: Ron Brown's Foreign Trade Missions
71 posted on 12/30/2001 1:35:13 PM PST by expose
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
I just can't believe that Clinton would have a whole plane load of people whacked just to get Brown over selling seats on trade commissions for cash.

Clinton was such a master at spin that he could have spun himself out of that one.

No, Mr. Brown knew something else. Something so damning that it cost a whole plane load of people ( I don't remember the exact number) their lives.

THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE

76 posted on 12/30/2001 1:58:29 PM PST by fightu4it
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
Thanks for the note.

It seems our best hope is getting O'Reilly to take a look.

77 posted on 12/30/2001 2:12:39 PM PST by Nephi
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