Girls to Guys -- It's on the Rise

San Francisco Examiner ^ | 12/19/01 | Tanya Pampalone

[Orual]

Gender Dysphoria Association - another unofficial WOD - dysphoria.

Dr. Michael L. Brownstein

[Dimensio]

What do we call people who are born with two heads?

Probably a two-headed person. When a documented case of a person being born with two heads (and not a siamese twin -- we have a word for that) is found then I'm sure that there will be at term for it.

Of course, that person with two heads would in all likelyhood have a discernable gender, so I don't see what that has to do with XY females or XX males.

[Dimensio]

I'm sure He did.

But as for myself, I'm not presumptuous to think I could know His reasons. After all He created me, and everything else, not the other way around.

True, and that's why I stated it as "an argument" and not "my argument". I try not to discuss the motives of entites postulated by others, as I'm the one arguing from ignorance.

[LN2Campy]

...a fully functioning penis is often viewed as essential to being male

I nominate the above for "Understatement of the Year"...anyone care to second??

[ArGee]

Access to transsexual procedures is helping many be true to their chosen gender.

Does anyone else see a tremendous amount of irony in this statement?

Shalom.

[ArGee]

But patients at Dimensions do not have to undergo therapy and most are able to start hormone treatment within five weeks of their initial visit, following lab tests and a staff review of the individual case.

Ahh, yes. There must be a staff review.

Wallet big enough?

Check!

Holdings big enough?

Check!

No lawyers among known family and friends?

Check!

Yep. Classic case. We operate at dawn!

Shalom.

[ArGee]

I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see California be the first state to demand 3 types of restrooms in all public buildings to satisfy all the glbt's.

Actually, I think there are eight genders, but I can never keep them straight.

Let's see ... uh ... straight male, straight female, gay male, gay female, straight FTM transgender, straight MTF transgender, gay FTM transgender, gay FTM transgender.

I don't suppose there's a neutral?

Shalom.

[doctor noe]

Next time I meet a lesbian who isn't stereotypically "butch" I'll mention that little tidbit and ask if I can watch...

I think the term "stereotype" does apply most of the time. 90% of all lesbians can be identified by their dress, hairstyles and/or mannerisms. I used to live next door to a couple of lipstickers...one time, they asked me what I wanted for Christmas. I replied, I wanna watch. So they let me.

[Age of Reason]

Of course, that person with two heads would in all likelyhood have a discernable gender, so I don't see what that has to do with XY females or XX males.

Suppose one head thinks its female and the other head thinks its male, who decide what to cut-off, what to sew-on?

[mountaineer]

What's wrong with just being butch?

We're butch!

[ArGee]

Are you saying that you could choose to be attracted to persons of the same gender if you wanted to?

I hope that everyone understands that the choice homosexuals make isn't the same as the choice a carnivore makes when choosing between Burger King and McDonalds. The choice is whether to get help in rectifying a mental illness or to rationalize the results of said illness.

Shalom.

[ArGee]

An imperfect system that was somehow designed by a perfect being?

Just for the record, although you don't seem to be someone who is too concerned by theological inaccuracy, G-d did create a perfect system.

We broke it.

Shalom.

[Dimensio]

Of course, that person with two heads would in all likelyhood have a discernable gender, so I don't see what that has to do with XY females or XX males.

Suppose one head thinks its female and the other head thinks its male, who decide what to cut-off, what to sew-on?

Wouldn't that be multiple personality disorder? Anyway, in that case it could be argued that the two "heads" had different gender identities, but since there are no recorded cases of a person having two heads in all of medical history, we may never know.

Once again, what does this have to do with XX males or XY females? I'm not talking about people who identify as the opposite gender, I'm talking about people whose unaltered genitals don't match their chromosomes.

Regarding a "functioning penis", I heard not long ago of a male to female to male transexual. Basically he was either disfigured or born with some defect that left his male organs damaged in some form, so a doctor preformed gender reassignment surgery on him when he was an infant and his parents raised him as a female (the doctor, IIRC, wrote a book on the "success" of it all). All his life he never identified well as a female and it wasn't until he was an adult that he discovered what really happened. He since had a second surgery to restore his male appearance to match his identity, complete with pump-action penis (yes, the term makes me snicker too). He has since married, though I don't know (and do doubt) whether he is able to father children of his own. Since his penis is arguably not "fully functional", is he not a man even though he was born male, obtained surgery to reestablish himself as male and intends to live as a male?

[abandon]

I hope that everyone understands that the choice homosexuals make isn't the same as the choice a carnivore makes when choosing between Burger King and McDonalds. The choice is whether to get help in rectifying a mental illness or to rationalize the results of said illness.

I wonder what a vegetarian would say to that. (And for the record, I prefer Burger King.)

[Cultural Jihad]

Notice how the author goes along with this sad, silling charade by referring to women as "he." Sick.

Agreed. These people with their mutilated genitalia have not changed their sex at all.

[ArGee]

Needless to say, there is a huge distinction between finding something disgusting and calling for its prohibition.

Actually, what I'd like to see is huge, privately funded billboards advertising counselling help for those who seem to be confused about their gender. But, unfortunately, that wouldn't be PC. I'm sure that by now the APA has threatened to pull the license of anyone who attempts to help a FTM candidate realize that she is actually female.

One good thing that we can do is expose the sickness of the popular culture every chance we get. That doesn't require any laws or changing the nature of the free country, but it might help one of these poor individuals seek the right kind of help.

Shalom.

[ArGee]

Yes, and as the argument would have it, He should have known what they would do before He even created them.

What makes you think He didn't know that?

Shalom.

[ArGee]

I wonder what a vegetarian would say to that. (And for the record, I prefer Burger King.)

I'm for BK myself. For the vegetarians in the crowd, I would use choosing between snow peas and green beans instead of choosing between BK and Mickie D's.

Shalom.

[Old Professer]

But two years ago, the 25-year-old spoken word artist with a tiny goatee ... When Van -- who lives as a man without the help of hormones or surgery -- made the switch ...

I don't know about that...

I grew up in a town with a lot of Italian women, believe it!

[Dimensio]

Yes, and as the argument would have it, He should have known what they would do before He even created them.

What makes you think He didn't know that?

"He" is a construct accepted by others, not myself, so His motives aren't really a concern of mine. Still, the argument isn't that He wouldn't have known that but that He must have known that for him to truly be omniscient and omnipotent. This then leads to issues of how can anyone be accountable to G-d for anything since G-d set up the whole mess in the first place with full foreknowledge of how it would all work out and that if He wanted different results then He should have arranged things differently -- after all, He is supposed to be the prime cause of everything.

In other words, Satan was condemned before he was even created, and he never had a chance to be anything but evil.