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To: Age of Reason
Of course, that person with two heads would in all likelyhood have a discernable gender, so I don't see what that has to do with XY females or XX males.

Suppose one head thinks its female and the other head thinks its male, who decide what to cut-off, what to sew-on?


Wouldn't that be multiple personality disorder? Anyway, in that case it could be argued that the two "heads" had different gender identities, but since there are no recorded cases of a person having two heads in all of medical history, we may never know.

Once again, what does this have to do with XX males or XY females? I'm not talking about people who identify as the opposite gender, I'm talking about people whose unaltered genitals don't match their chromosomes.

Regarding a "functioning penis", I heard not long ago of a male to female to male transexual. Basically he was either disfigured or born with some defect that left his male organs damaged in some form, so a doctor preformed gender reassignment surgery on him when he was an infant and his parents raised him as a female (the doctor, IIRC, wrote a book on the "success" of it all). All his life he never identified well as a female and it wasn't until he was an adult that he discovered what really happened. He since had a second surgery to restore his male appearance to match his identity, complete with pump-action penis (yes, the term makes me snicker too). He has since married, though I don't know (and do doubt) whether he is able to father children of his own. Since his penis is arguably not "fully functional", is he not a man even though he was born male, obtained surgery to reestablish himself as male and intends to live as a male?
93 posted on 12/19/2001 12:18:39 PM PST by Dimensio
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To: Dimensio
Once again, what does this have to do with XX males or XY females? I'm not talking about people who identify as the opposite gender, I'm talking about people whose unaltered genitals don't match their chromosomes.

A person with XX chromosomes is female--no matter what she "looks" like.

And a person with XY chromosomes, is a male, no matter what he "looks" like.

Providing, of course, we are speaking of genuine X and genuine Y chromosomes, and not some freaky mutated X that has lost a leg through some damage or other, and so looks like a Y.

If a person has, for example, XX chromosomes and yet has what "appears" to be a male sex organ because of some weird mutation or birth defect or other mutilation, then I sure wouldn't blame her for wanting her body to better express her true sex, as determined by her female, XX, chormosomes.

But if someone who is XY and has a pensis--i.e., is a normal male--wants to make his body resemble that of a woman's by having a "surgeon" cut him and stitch him into a different shape--that guy remains a guy and I will refer to him as a he.

Likewise, the XX person is a woman is a woman is a woman.

And should there be something that does not fit either of the two above categories, then it is not male and it is not female: It's a third sex or it's sexless.

Regarding a "functioning penis", I heard not long ago of a male to female to male transexual. Basically he was either disfigured or born with some defect that left his male organs damaged in some form, so a doctor preformed gender reassignment surgery on him when he was an infant and his parents raised him as a female (the doctor, IIRC, wrote a book on the "success" of it all). All his life he never identified well as a female and it wasn't until he was an adult that he discovered what really happened. He since had a second surgery to restore his male appearance to match his identity, complete with pump-action penis (yes, the term makes me snicker too). He has since married, though I don't know (and do doubt) whether he is able to father children of his own. Since his penis is arguably not "fully functional", is he not a man even though he was born male, obtained surgery to reestablish himself as male and intends to live as a male?

I seem to remember the case you're citing as one where the fellow was a victim of a botched circumcision; the doctors then compounded that error by advising the parents that the kid would have emotional problems over his stunted organ, and so would be better-off as a "girl"--he wasn't: he wasn't made a real girl and he wasn't better-off; because he had the male, Y, chromosome.

171 posted on 12/19/2001 10:58:25 PM PST by Age of Reason
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