Girls to Guys -- It's on the Rise

San Francisco Examiner ^ | 12/19/01 | Tanya Pampalone

[tellertime]

You simply have a gross case of "human-a-phobia". I'll bet you are so entrenched in your beliefs that you would do yourself in if you were asked, ordered or requested to wear a womans shoe.Your foot is probably so large the request is ridiculous. Or anything else. It is also a "fabric-a-phobia" in your case. I wonder what you would have done in the 15th Century when men wore very fancy feminine-like, frilled baroque atire that was all the rage for males in the high courts in those days. If you had the ability to return in time I wonder how you'd handle that situation. Probably the same thing you'd do now....attempt to cut them to ribbons. I'll bet you were very diificult back in your grammar school days while growing up. And bet you had a bad day when asked to be in a drama play being asked to perform a part you highly disapproved of. Even go to war over. You need to travel and see other people, places and things.

[Dimensio]

"And I'm still waiting for you to present credentials that show you understand the issue better than mental health professionals who actually do research."


Common Sense is the only "credential" one needs on this issue.

"Common Sense" told Aristotle that objects fall at a rate relative to their mass. Common sense often sucks when compared to actual research.

[EODGUY]

If I may humbly recommend another "musical gem of our time" to the list of BRAAD party songs....How about, "Redneck, White Socks and Blue Ribbon Beer".

And there are those who say our generation has no poets!

[Age of Reason]

What you don't seem to understand is that DNA is the blue print, but hormones are the building blocks. Now, in sometimes the hormones produced in the womb ignores either XX or XY and creates the child into the opposite gender.

I understand that perfectly well (though I doubt that a child of the truly opposite gender is created).

But if sex is determined by hormonal exposure in the womb, then to change an adult's sex, let medicine first transform the patient into a fetus again and return him to life in a womb, that the patient may properly develop in the manipulated hormone bath; because it would not be exposure to hormones but exposure to hormones at certain stages of fetal development that would, according to your example, determine sex.

If that is (as yet) medically impossible, then is it (as yet) medically impossible to change a person's sex.

Actually yes. But it is rare. Most of the time the man is sterile.

You mean someone who hasn't a Y chormosome in her body, has them in her sperm? How is that so? Something can't be right here--those can't be "real" Y chromosomes--sounds more like damage to the X chromosome is costing that X one leg--if so, what (if any) kind of male child might that produce?

You have a very shallow opinion of what it is to be a man.

I find judging a person's sex by the shape of the body to be a superficial opinion of what it is to be a man.

I view the body as a kind of life-support system for its underlying genetic structure.

Now that is a very arrogant statement. Your ego is beginning to show.

It wouldn't be the first time the medical establishment was wrong, and it wouldn't be the first time a layman set their thinking straight.

And if there is one thing doctors are dopes about, it is sex and everything else outside of their medical specialty--and experience shows we can't even trust their opinion with that, even.

[ProudAmericanConservative]

"When it comes to human identity and personality, there is a lot of grey area. In the end, it is the mind that defines the body, not the body that defines the mind. You lack this realization. Also, in your ignorance, your may not realize some interesting medical facts about criminals. For example, most serial killers have genius IQs." As to the first part of your post, It really is black and white. A human who has a penis, no matter how much they identify with females, live their lives as females or wish to be female, is a MALE unless surgically altered. The mind has nothing to do with sexual organs, and has little more to do with sexual identity. As for the second half of your post, I fail to see the relevancy of your comment. Yes, many serial killers are highly intelligent, but what has this got to do with what we are discussing here?? Im sorry but there is no grey matter here, a human with a penis is male, and a human with a vagina is female. We will have to agree to disagree in this matter.

[ProudAmericanConservative]

"In the case of the man whose gender was switched shortly after birth, "he" was born with a penis, but it was removed when "he" was turned into a female by his doctor and then "he" was raised as a girl by his parents. Was "he" a "he" or a "she"? "He" sure thought that "he" was a "he" as "he" grew up even though "he" didn't have a penis (but "he" was born with one), but since you seem to be the expert on gender identity, what was "he"?" "he" is a she, since she has no penis and has female sexual organs. If one undergoes a sex change then one is the opposite sex that they were born. As far as credentials in mental health, I possess none. But lets not forget the mental health profession has given us: regressive and repressed memory, phony claims of sexual abuse, the "Black Rage" defense and ADD and ADHD. Im not so sure alot of those mental health "professionals" know much more about mental health than I as a layperson do.

[Paul C. Jesup]

You mean someone who hasn't a Y chormosome in her body, has them in her sperm? How is that so? Something can't be right here--those can't be "real" Y chromosomes--sounds more like damage to the X chromosome is costing that X one leg--if so, what (if any) kind of male child might that produce?

Actually a couple of months ago, I heard on Fox News, that a bio-medical group found while studing the genetic make-up of the X and Y chomosomes that the X chomosome has more to do with the actual instructions on sperm production than the Y chomosome. The formula was normally that 70% of the instructions on sperm production came from the X chomosome and 30% of the instructions on sperm production came from the Y chomosome.

The way they found this out was by studing men (with Y chomosomes) who were sterile. They found that most men may inherit their sterility from their mothers.

You might want to reseach this yourself. You might find this subject very interesting.

[Paul C. Jesup]

You're talking about on the phyical level.

I'm talking about on the mental level.

[ProudAmericanConservative]

OK, but because one MENTALLY considers themselves to be female, unless they got the equipment it doesnt mean much more than spit in a bucket.

[Freedom_Is_Not_Free]

We'll see how many of these women want to be men during the next wartime draft. The proof is in the putting, girls.

[Paul C. Jesup]

You missed the point of this entire thread.

[Age of Reason]

The X chromosome probably has a lot more to do about everything, and it might be that Y chromosome's most important influence is what it doesn't do.

Nonetheless, I still maintain that having the Y chromosome is what makes a man a man.

Anything else is either a woman or a mixup.

[Paul C. Jesup]

Before I reply anymore to your statements I need to ask you some questions.

How do you personally define the human mind?

How do you personally define the human body (including DNA, RNA and hormones)?

And how do you view the relationship betweem the human mind and the human body?

And which do you consider more important in relationship to the human soul? The human mind? Or the human body?

Also, please state the reasons for your answers.

[glory]

You know I have a relative who underwent this. Strangely enough he did not go to a she until he went to a liberal university, became a feminist, and a peta type vegetarian. And before you assume this is a distant relative, (s)he is not, I grew up with this person and played with them. Oddly enough the he gone she is now a lesbian to. IMO, knowing this person, people start with a mental illness(which I think is fair to say since his siblings have exhibited in other ways..all have had at least one divorce, spousal abuse both mentally and physically, and infidelity, alcohol abuse), not necessarily the desire to become another sex or even be homosexual, and when they get in very liberal universities in thier very delicate emotional state it's pretty easy to convince these people that what they've really been missing all thier lives is a surgery, hormones, or thier same sex. How else do you explain how so many of these grown children seem to come to these conclusions once they get university age and oddly enough after living in some of the most liberal cities on earth. I really feel sad for these folks, instead of getting the help they need spiritually and mentally, they are disfiguring themselves.

glory

[glory]

I've never thought that I'm wiser than your god, that would require me to first believe in it. Even if I did believe in your god, I would have a hard time comparing myself to it since whenever I build or create something, I'm taken to task on every flaw.

So, if you don't believe in Him, why did you make your initial comment laying blame at His feet? Since you layed blame with no provocation, it seems more as if you dislike the Christian God rather than disbelieve in Him.

glory

[Age of Reason]

What's a soul?

If you can define it so I understand what you're talking about, I'll try to determine where it fits in.

[Paul C. Jesup]

Soul=consciousness, awareness, identity, personality, the part of you that is still aware after you have died.

Now answer my questions.

[Cold Heat]

Sorry I'm late answering your post. By browser crashed!

You simply have a gross case of "human-a-phobia". I'll bet you are so entrenched in your beliefs that you would do yourself in if you were asked, ordered or requested to wear a womans shoe.Your foot is probably so large the request is ridiculous. Or anything else. It is also a "fabric-a-phobia" in your case. I wonder what you would have done in the 15th Century when men wore very fancy feminine-like, frilled baroque atire that was all the rage for males in the high courts in those days. If you had the ability to return in time I wonder how you'd handle that situation. Probably the same thing you'd do now....attempt to cut them to ribbons. I'll bet you were very diificult back in your grammar school days while growing up. And bet you had a bad day when asked to be in a drama play being asked to perform a part you highly disapproved of. Even go to war over. You need to travel and see other people, places and things.

Thanks for the compliments. SGT. Wirestripper