School Bus Driver's Prayers Run Into Church-State Flap

Charisma News ^ | 12/13/01 | Andy Butcher

[marshmallow]

Daily prayer started after Sept. 11 terrorist attacks

A Maryland school bus driver fears that she could lose her job because of onboard prayers by her young passengers. Many of the students join in saying the Lord's prayer before disembarking at school -- and the short ritual has become the center of a major church-state dispute.

According to "The Baltimore Sun," Stella Tsourakis has been called in twice by school transportation officials and warned about the prayer offered by Hampstead-area youngsters on her daily middle and high school route.

The 37-year-old led those onboard in reciting the Lord's prayer on Sept. 12, the day after the terrorist attacks. She sent a note home to parents asking permission to continue the brief prayer, and all but one approved.

When Tsourakis was told last month by school transportation officials she had to stop leading the daily invocation or risk losing her job, she complied. But pupils from Shiloh Middle School decided they wanted to keep praying themselves -- and students at North Carroll High School decided to join in, too.

Now when the bus stops in front of the school, the doors are opened so that anyone who wants to can leave, while the rest wait a moment and recite the Lord's prayer, the "Sun" said.

Tsourakis has the support of parents, students and others in the community. But Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, said she had "poisoned the well constitutionally." He told the newspaper: "Those children are obviously doing the prayers because she told them that's what they should do. It's organized prayer in a school bus after the kids were instructed how to do it by a government contract official. That's just wrong."

For her part, Tsourakis thought she was just helping soothe the youngsters' fears after Sept. 11. "Here you have the president of the United States, telling us to pray, national television services with praying," she said. "I'm not giving [the pupils] my beliefs. We never discussed religion at all. I can't do that."

School officials declined to comment on the issue, saying it was a personnel matter. There was disagreement, the newspaper reported, about whether school bus drivers had been briefed on church-state issues as part of their orientation training.

The Maryland controversy surfaces in a mixed week for school prayer. First the Supreme Court declined to hear an appeal over a Jacksonville, Fla., case, effectively endorsing voluntary student prayer at graduation ceremonies. Then an appeals court struck down a Louisiana law -- believed to be the last of its kind in the country -- allowing spoken morning prayer in classrooms.

[marshmallow]

Religious persecution, pure and simple.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Surely the driver will get muzzled in this one (sadly). What the kids should do is start a group recitation themselves.

[Mr. Lucky]

If each child who participates in the prayer has the express consent and support of his or her parents, why is any of this the Reverend Lynn's business?

[freedomcrusader]

Because he wants to ban all prayer from all schools?

[ConsistentLibertarian]

"A Maryland school bus driver fears that she could lose her job because of onboard prayers by her young passengers." That first sentence gave me the impression that the kids were praying on their own and some despotic administrator wanted to fire the bus driver. When I think of all the things I've seen and heard on school buses, I couldn't figure out what the big deal was if kids were praying. But my guess is that what got her into trouble was _leading_ the prayer.

[4CJ]

If the bus driver tells the students that the must become Baptists, Jewish, Methodists, Episcopalian, Catholic, etc. that would violate the 1st Amendment. But saying non-sectarian prayers, even to the Christian God of our founding fathers, does nothing to violate it.

[detsaoT]

But Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State

Yep. And nobody hates Christianity more than the "Reverend" Lynn, too. This guy is a real jerkoff (pardon my french - hope the moderators don't get too upset! :) who will stop at nothing until America becomes a totally secular entity, devoid of ANY public expression of the Christian faith.

Multiculturalism is not about being "inclusive" of all religions.
It is about being "exclusive" of Christianity.

:) ttt

[TXBubba]

But this guy isn't just saying that. Note that she stopped leading them and they decided to continue on their own.

When Tsourakis was told last month by school transportation officials she had to stop leading the daily invocation or risk losing her job, she complied. But pupils from Shiloh Middle School decided they wanted to keep praying themselves -- and students at North Carroll High School decided to join in, too.

His words of "poisoned" are the real problem to me. That shows his real agenda.

[ConsistentLibertarian]

People who want to limit sexual expression in public places aren't necessarily anti-sex.

[detsaoT]

People who want to limit sexual expression in public places aren't necessarily anti-sex.

Hate to say it, bud, but Barry Lynn, no matter what the hell he CALLS himself, has proven himself to be rediculously anti-Religious. Look at his track record, if you don't believe me.

(And "Religion in public life" does not cleanly relate to "Sex in public life". Can you guess which one is a health risk, and which one is just irrational sensitivity?)

;) ttt (Unrepentant_r_epublican)

[Ligeia]

Multiculturalism is not about being "inclusive" of all religions.

It is about being "exclusive" of Christianity.

How right you are. Walk into almost any school today and witness the Ramadan, Hannukah, and Kwanzaa displays. What? You didn't see a creche?

[Maceman]

People who want to limit sexual expression in public places aren't necessarily anti-sex.

These kids have an absolute right to pray. The bus driver is not leading them. The school has no right to tell them to stop, or to harrass this bus driver.

[Mr. Lucky]

I don't intend this personally, but your quip illustrates why libertarians aren't considered a particularly serious political movement.

[detsaoT]

...libertarians aren't considered a particularly serious political movement.

While I generally agree with your observation, I feel compelled to warn you that the wrath of every self-described libertarian will be upon you before you know what hitcha.

Good luck fielding the responses, though.

:) ttt

[AlaskaErik]

Had the driver stopped her bus while it was pointing towards Mecca and had she thrown down some prayer rugs, she would have been commended for her cultural sensitivity.

[SGCOS]

But pupils from Shiloh Middle School decided they wanted to keep praying themselves -- and students at North Carroll High School decided to join in, too.

Now when the bus stops in front of the school, the doors are opened so that anyone who wants to can leave, while the rest wait a moment and recite the Lord's prayer, the "Sun" said.

How can the driver be responsible for this?

[Texas_Jarhead]

"People who want to limit sexual expression in public places aren't necessarily anti-sex.

The worst attempt at moral equivalence ever. bravo.

[Dr. Octagon]

And how long will the unconstitutional myth of "separation of church and state" be used to mean, "We will crush any vestige of Christianity on public property"? Public property is owned by Christians too!

[MissMillie]

As long as the students are initiating this, there is nothing wrong w/ it.

[MissMillie]

The 37-year-old led those onboard in reciting the Lord's prayer on Sept. 12, the day after the terrorist attacks. She sent a note home to parents asking permission to continue the brief prayer, and all but one approved.

THERE'S the problem. As long as the school district is paying her check, she has no business leading the students in prayer on the bus route.