Posted on 12/10/2001 9:37:04 AM PST by My Favorite Headache
Anti-war demonstrators, war veterans square off in peaceful gathering
Monday, December 10, 2001
By MIREIDY FERNANDEZ, mmfernandez@naplesnews.com
and I.M STACKEL, imstackel@naplesnews.com
Anti-war demonstrators mostly made up of Collier County schoolteachers and students faced off against Vietnam and Korean war veterans Sunday afternoon, with each side armed with the symbols of their philosophy — protest signs and American flags.
The confrontation was peaceful, and although police were on the scene no one was arrested during the three-hour protest.
Wearing a green poster that read "Peace not War," Kathleen McLoughlin said she doesn't support violence of any type.
"Why don't we listen to giving peace a chance?" asked McLoughlin. "One war doesn't stop another war. Is that a solution?"
"You just have to feel disgusted," said Barry Kotek, 49, who favors the war on terrorism. "Our country was attacked Sept. 11; we did nothing to provoke the attack and several thousand people died. We have a lot of troops in harm's way who need our support."
A heated argument broke out for about 15 minutes shortly after the 3 p.m. rally got under way when the motorcycle-riding vets surrounded the anti-war demonstrators and revved their engines, creating a thunderous clamor.
"Where are the cops when you need them?" asked anti-war protester and rally organizer Ian Harvey, 46, a media teacher at Lely High School and a member of A.N.S.W.E.R., for Act Now to Stop War and End Racism, a New York City-based organization created in the aftermath of Sept. 11.
A handful of Naples police officers showed up minutes after protesters arrived at the Naples Plaza parking lot at U.S. 41 and Golden Gate Parkway, where both sides either waved American flags or held posters condemning the war efforts. The anti-war protest was called by Harvey, but war vets and others who support held a counter-protest.
Naples police Lt. Robb Bock said he had responded to the scene as a way to "try to keep the peace."
At least one person didn't feel safe during those tense minutes when the vets argued with some anti-war protesters and questioned their patriotism. Organizers estimated there were nearly 100 pro-war demonstrators and 25 anti-war protesters.
"They surrounded us over there. It was pretty intimidating," said Margaret Williams, 54, who attended with her son John, 15, a Gulf Coast High School sophomore.
But tempers remained cool despite attempts by some to verbally wrestle the other side to their point of view. Passing motorists along U.S. 41 looked on and waved or honked at the sight of dozens of American flags being waved by pro-war demonstrators.
Mark Huber, a sophomore at Lely High, said he joined the protest when he learned that Harvey, who is his English teacher, was organizing the rally. He said Harvey openly talks about America's war on Afghanistan in class and that most of his classmates agree with the teacher and also disapprove of the war.
"He's not brainwashing us," said Mark, 15. "He's telling us about things that are happening and that are in the news. We're deliberately bombing a lot of people just to kill a few."
In response, Keith Martin, a member of Collier's POW-MIA organization and a biker, tried to explain to Mark why Collier's war veterans were so emphatic about waving the flag and sticking up for U.S. troops abroad.
"These people are war people," Martin said of his fellow vets. "They're very patriotic and feel this way. They are nice people."
War supporter Barbara Wnek also joined the conversation with another point:
"I read that (Osama) bin Laden is ready to make his largest attack ever on the world and having our children out here protesting that we're trying to stop an evil man from spreading evil throughout the word is awful," said Wnek, 46.
Among the anti-war protesters was Amanda Woodward, a junior at Lely High who wants the United States to stop its attacks on Afghan soil.
"I don't agree with how we're fighting back," said Amanda, 16. "I think we should go to the world court."
John Dwyer, an English teacher at Lely High, said he wants the United States "to stop killing people" and felt it was his "democratic duty to come out and support this."
"This is an opportunity for me to express my opinion," said Dwyer, 58. He and another instructor, Katherine Kando, who teaches English for speakers of other languages at Naples High, said although they were worried about the Collier County School Board's reaction to the protest, they believe everyone is protected under the First Amendment.
Vietnam War vet Joe Hayes said it was painful to see Americans turn their backs on their own country and their service men and women at a time when they need support.
"It hurts me ... it feels like there's traitors in my country," said Hayes, 63. "(Terrorists) killed 5,000 people and (the anti-war protesters) don't worry about that. I'm a religious person but my honor is for country."
Anti-war demonstrators held signs like "Our grief isn't a cry for war," "War is terrorism" and "If (Timothy) McVeigh bombed WTC, would we send him back to Michigan?"
Eddie Filer, of Big Corkscrew Island, was also at the protest supporting the anti-war demonstrators.
"I don't think we belong in Afghanistan because we're over there bombing the country and destroying it," said Filer, 77. "We should do what we can but I don't think we can get rid of the terrorists in this country. I've always been against war."
Ray Truelove, another Vietnam War veteran and organizer of Sunday's counter-protest, said he wants the School Board to explain why there are teachers in the school system who, in his opinion, are "teaching anti-Americanism."
"We want to know some answers," said Truelove, 61. "I'm going to talk to the School Board and the PTA so that parents know what these teachers are teaching young children. This is pure anti-American."
Others like Orin Smith said they felt "neutral" about the U.S. war to hunt down terrorists, dismantle terrorist networks or the manhunt for bin Laden. He said he wasn't in support of either side at Sunday's demonstration.
"I'm kind of confused as to whether (President) Bush should send the troops over there," said Smith, 85. "I was brought up as a Quaker. I think the troops are fighting for the world — not just for our country. I'm in the middle because I'm not sure how they're going to resolve this problem and get rid of terrorists. I think the fighting now is a short-term solution."
"He's not brainwashing us," said Mark, 15. "He's telling us about things that are happening and that are in the news. We're deliberately bombing a lot of people just to kill a few."
That is a lie. He is brainwashing you. Please find one instance where we killed alot of innocent people to kill a few that are not innocent. It has not happened yet.
"I support the war. When they bombed the Trade Center they started a war in the U.S.," says Joe Hayes, 64, of Naples, a Vietnam war veteran who served 18 years in the Marines. Hayes shows his support for the American troops in Afghanistan while John Williams, 15, of Naples voices his opinion at an anti-war protest held Sunday at U.S. 41 and Golden Gate Parkway in Naples. Gary Coronado/Staff
LOL. These people are great. They want the cops around when they are in trouble so that the cops can stop any trouble how? By a greater use of force (violence), of course. They are against violence of any kind except when it requires others to risk their lives for their own personal safetly. Silly fools!
Duh! You need force to keep the peace.
Most excellent! I love it.
1. You are not being brainwashed.
2. Now do everything I tell you.
Does Gene know about this? Just his cup of tea, a nice letter writing campaign.
For more background on the IAC and International Answer, click Here
The lefties used to begin 'brainwashing' against America in College but now have escalated their efforts to HS kids.....disgusting!
BRAVO to all those Vets & Patriots who confronted these peace-nazis!
Bill
Sheesh! Can't these people ever come up with something original. This is the same thing some Gorons complained about last year at our rallies to support Bush before the election was finally decided. Of course the Bush supporters (300) outnumbered the Gorons (maybe 10).
This guy has to go. He has no business being near children.Naples News 11/03/01:
Community activist Ian Harvey has been outspoken about American and British attacks on Afghanistan, and figures that Naples is lagging behind other Florida cities that held demonstrations last week, along with hundreds more around the world."It was pretty inspiring. When I feel kind of isolated, I look at that," he said.
"There are a lot of people out there who just don't know what to do. We aren't being presented with any options."
The presumption is that those who speak out against the bombings are anti-American, Harvey said.
The attitude is "you're either with us, and if you don't like it, you're one of the suicide bombers," he said.
It's a lot more complicated than that, he said.
The United States has bolstered governments around the world that have been less than kind or civilized, he said. The Taliban was one of them. The United States trained and armed them, he said.
Now, the United States is supporting the Northern Alliance that opposes the Taliban.
The reason for that, Harvey asserts, is to protect a proposed oil pipeline that traverses Afghanistan. "They need a pliable government," said Harvey, a 46-year-old media teacher at Lely High School and a member of A.N.S.W.E.R.
Infecting young mindsI always knew why some of my children's muddled ideas had to be rebutted when they came home from school.
Having just read the blathering of Ian Harvey, teacher of mass media at Lely High School, I see some of you "flower children" are still infecting young minds. You border on being unpatriotic, sir. Thank goodness my children were astute enough to spot a radical in teacher's clothing while in school.
They survived and are bright, successful, patriotic parents of bright, successful, patriotic children.
I hope your students survive your ideas and grow their own.
Yes, Ian Harvey, war is hell, and collateral deaths do happen, but how can you deny that these terrorists used four weapons of mass destruction on innocent civilians as a primary target of a non-war.
Yes, Mr. Harvey, the terrorists were from Egypt and Saudi Arabia. They were trained in Afghanistan where the government and a despotic evil branch of Islam (Taliban) are one and the same. Their crazed teacher Osama bin Laden has sanctuary there.
They are probably now the users of biological warfare. This should open the door to a discussion of mass retaliation — do I hear "nuke 'em"?
You want to treat them with kindness — to me kindness is not an appropriate reaction to evil. Appeasing evil only makes it stronger.
I shudder to think of the fertile minds subjected to your thinking.
— Dr. Ray Paret/Marco Island
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