Posted on 12/04/2001 7:13:41 AM PST by toenail
Note: These are my personal thoughts. Yes I talk to myself when I read. LOL
First of all, it would be nice if you would have provided a link. I dont have the time to Google search this to find the source. I was saddened to see such a heartfelt, sad, yet loving discussion ruined with a venomous article.
"PAS sounds scientific, but don't be fooled it's a made-up term". Makes no sense at all. All words are made up. The word sky is made up, but that doesnt mean the sky doesnt exist.
"Not recognized as an official syndrome or diagnosis by the American Psychiatric Association , the American Psychological Association" Why am I not surprised?
"bogus affliction invented by the religious right". Rude sentence. Plenty of non-religious people and groups are Pro-life.
"Using the allure of outward compassion". How dare this writer assert such a hateful claim. Oh yes, I forgot. Only Pro-Choicers are the almighty compassionate ones. I could flip this sentence around and use it against Pro-Choicers. In my eyes, they use the allure of outward compassion to sucker panic stricken women into doing something wrong. Yes, butchering your un-born child is WRONG!
"the way to make recompense is usually to speak out against abortion," says Rev. Cynthia Bumb, an activist who has followed PAS activity closely. The groups tell PAS sufferers to lobby for anti-choice legislation" First of all, no one is FORCED to do anything. You are not required, it is gently suggested, if suggested at all. The woman can decide if she wants to or not. Other than that, I see nothing wrong with this. In fact I give a big WOOHOO!!! Tell it like it is sister!!! Women who have suffered through an abortion our some of our most outspoken, most convincing HEROs we have on our side. God bless them!
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an October 2000 Gallup poll found that two-thirds of Americans surveyed said they are against a constitutional amendment that would overturn the right to abortion established in Roe v. Wade Sigh ..this is most unfortunate. Too bad they didnt take this poll 30 years ago, before the Pro-Choice movement had 30 years to brain wash the public into thinking a helpless, innocent little baby is OK TO KILL!!!. Ugh!. There are two types of lies. Lies and polls. I dont believe this at all. Where did Gallop survey? California? Massachusetts?
Reardon told Priests for Life. "The potential of post-abortion healing . . . can rapidly change the whole dynamic of the abortion debate in this country. And I am really confident that we will see an end to abortion within the decade." You know what? Pro-deathers are scared out of their freaking pants because the information is getting out about how much suffering women have gone through. They are going to start LOSING influence. Women are waking up. I see it all the time. I use to be pro-choice but after seeing what my sister/friend went through and thinking about this, Im against abortion now. Wonderful!
he calls them "post-aborted women" and then use them as "compelling advocates for the unborn." Says Reardon We dont use anyone. They volunteer to share their suffering, and they will be blessed for doing so. And yes, they ARE compelling advocates for the unborn. We love them!
He wants the message of the antiabortion movement to be, "abortion hurts women." And he's getting his wish Thank God!! Wonderful news!
Of course, the overwhelming scientific evidence shows that abortion does not hurt women physically or mentally OK, who is doing the science here?
insufficient evidence of trauma. Insufficient evidence means nothing to me. There was once insufficient evidence to prove the earth was round. Most unfortunate that Mr. Koop didnt get to talk to my college room mate. She managed to keep her pregnancy secret (a baby she wanted) for 7 months. Her mother found out and drove her to another state to receive a 3rd trimester abortion. Good God almighty, may he show mercy on that poor girls soul. She was a basket case, to put it mildly. And while Im at it, I wonder why that doctor took the mothers money and forced this young girl to undergo an abortion she didnt want? THIS IS CHOICE????? Its all about MONEY! That poor girl was so messed up. She screamed and cried every night. I got no sleep the first semester of my Sophomore year at college, because I had to comfort, hold and pray with the poor thing every night. My sleep depravation weighed very little, compared to that young womans emotional torture. It was horrible!! CHOICE my butt!!!
(This was a huge turning point in my life. Up until this point, I was strongly pro-life for me and everyone, but basically I felt I couldnt really tell a woman what to do. If she wanted an abortion, I would try to talk her out of it. If I couldnt, I would support her decision. After living 4 months with a screaming, weeping girl, I changed my mind forever. This IS about womens health to me, and the health of their unborn child).
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The predominant sensation women felt following an abortion was relief, the group said. This is very true. They all felt relief, FOR AWHILE. Thats the number one thing I hear all the time in our classes. I felt relief at first, but later it hit me.
Severe post-abortion psychological distress is extremely rare, affecting just one percent of patients. Bull!! Cotton pickin lie if I ever heard one. Ball faced LIE!!! This is SCIENCE? Whatever!
Major, who, along with other researchers, tracked women for two years after they had first-trimester abortions Hmmmmmm ..Gotcha on this one. Do you know probably 90% of the women who come for post abortion support, come about 5 to 10 years later. They come after they saw their first sonogram of their first born child, or after they have giving birth and see what they killed the first time around, or are struggling with infertility. We hardly ever have teenagers or young adults come for support. Very sad!
Suzanne Poppema (edited) .has little tolerance for PAS "because it doesn't exist," Ohhhhhhhhhh really?????? Well, well just see about that. How surprising to see such a tolerant liberal (assuming) make such a statement. She has little tolerance for suffering women, because THEY dont exist. If it doesnt suit her cause, she can erase them from existence.
"This is an invention of those who oppose choice," says Vicki Saporta, NAF's executive director. WE didnt invent anything! WE dont invent the thousands of women walking into clinics with broken hearts. WE didnt invent their suffering. WE dont round them up with a gun and force them to admit their grief and suffering. Stupid sentence if you ask me.
The alternatives to abortion carrying a pregnancy to term and either keeping the child or making an adoption placement can have a serious impact on a woman's mental health. I find this very sad. I also find it to be untrue. This is a BIG overgeneralization. Most women thinking about abortion struggle for the first trimester, but once they feel the baby move for the first time, they are elated and relieved they didnt exercise their CHOICE.
women in their study who had abortions felt a need to keep them secret from friends and/or family for fear of social disapproval. The effort of concealment itself was a major source of distress for women, the study said. "Women are hypersensitive to the sociopolitical climate and how it affects their feelings</b> What a minute here. I thought two thirds of the American public (polled) supported abortion. Could it be, they are ashamed because they did something they knew was MORALLY WRONG? They are ashamed to tell their mother, for example, who is pro-choice for everyone except herself and her daughters. They know their mother would be heart broken and say, Why didnt you come to me. I could have helped you. I would have supported you.
In response to these forces, some pro-choice activists are trying new approaches. NAF has a hot line, staffed with trained personnel who are willing to help women sort through their issues and give referrals to psychotherapists. Both The Healing Choice and Peace After Abortion provide exercises to help women review why they made the decision to have an abortion and their feelings about it. Oh this is just too good! What a hoot! What a minute here. I thought PAS was not scientific. I thought it was bogus. I thought it was an invention of the religious right. I thought it was dirty play at its worst. I thought Suzanne Popperma has little tolerance for PAS because it doesnt exist. I thought Vicki Saporta claims, This is an invention of those who oppose choice. I thought Brenda Major said PAS only affects 1% of patients. The first part of the article claims this is all bogus. The article ends, with NAF has a hotline of their very own to help grieving women. HA!!! Makes perfect sense to me.
In Binghamton, New York, Johnston offers women a polished stone before the abortion, and describes Native American and Buddhist rituals to help the healing process. "I tell them, 'There is no Hallmark card for you, but it doesn't mean you can't honor your loss,'" she says. The touch is personal, but Johnston also sees this approach as a political act to erase the stigma of abortion and silence the anti-abortion thunder. DISGUSTING!!!!! Hey, Ill trade you that baby for a ROCK. A ROCK????? AUGH!!! Oh how very compassionate. Ill murder your baby for $500 and Ill give you a rock for it. Sounds like a fair trade huh? I cant remember when I have heard something so ridiculous, so disgusting, so ..UGH!!. Just absolutely pathetic.
"A lot of the rhetoric of the anti-choice movement has really burdened women," says Johnston I beg your pardon. A WOMANS DEAD CHILD AND HER TREMENDOUS GUILT IS REALLY THE BURDEN HERE.
I mean no disrespect to anyone who disagrees with me. Peace and have a nice day!
There are those whose minds are made up to such a degree that they will not accept one word of one or the other of these disertations. There are others who see some truth in both.
Personally I do believe that some women are truely distressed that they aborted. The eastern cultures and religons while freely permitting abortions also have rituals designed to deal with the post abortion distress if it comes up. The rituals are kind, not pumitive. The women of these Eastern Cultures do not feel guilt from the abortion, they feel the sadness that could come from any lost child.
Most of the Western post abortion stress comes from the artificial guilt imposed by those who are against abortion. Mostly, American women are not allowed to feel the pure grief of a lost child. Western woman who dare to express such grief are generally slapped in the face with guilt, thus they suffer their grief alone and without relief.
Lies About Fetal Stem Cell Research, Read the truth here
Diocese of Trenton Pro Life Policy
Voter Guide of the New Jersey Family Policy Council
Living the Gospel of Life, 31-37 refers to politicians
US Council of Catholic Bishops Views on Abortion
Is your Catholic politician an Abortionist? Check here to see if they are Herod's Heros
Catholic Seton Hall University, S. Orange, NJ, gives award to Pro-Abortion Politician
Pro Abortion Catholic Democrat Jim McGreevey ejects Ctholic Priest from Church Property
Homosexual Agenda Escalates in the Public Schools
How a few Pennsylvania pro-lifers helped decide the 2000 Presidential election
Please sign the Petition to the Pope to Excommunicate Pro-Abortion Catholic Politicians
Killing off the Catholic Church
All Catholics Should Mail in their Church Bulletins to this Organization So that a database of Catholic Churchs and Practicing Catholics be Made up so that the Pro-Life Catholic Vote can become a Powerful Force. And to facilitate the election of Pro-Life Candidates in all 50 States.
You appear to be incorrect. This is excerpted from an article at http://www.belmont.edu/philosophy/courses/Japandabortion.html
Liquid Life: Abortion in Japan
Taken from W. Lafleur
Ronnie Littlejohn
A growing number of temples in Japan are offering mizuko kuyo rituals. There are ritual ceremonies of apology and remembrance for aborted fetuses, or the stillborn and miscarried. By far the most common motivation for the mizuko kuyo rituals is that they are religious services specifically attuned to the needs of parents who had abortions and who seek to assuage the guilt they feel.
Some temples have as the reason for their existence the mizuko kuyo rites. These temples have been the object of much public criticism. They provide rites almost exclusively for aborted fetuses. An example of such a temple is Shiun-zan Jizo-ji, in the city of Chichibu about two hours from Tokyo. In English the name is "the Temple of Jizo on the Mountain of the Purple Cloud." Although called a temple, it is really a mountain bochi, a cemetery or memorial park. There are rows upon rows of Jizo images, all diminutive, child-sized. Virtually every one wears a large red bib, the sort usually worn by an infant or young child in Japan. Around the images are toys, umbrellas, garments, and hats. Two things are conflated here which the West holds as separate as possible: the cemetery and the nursery. Persons who come here are usually parents and siblings of the deceased child. The actions they undertake to show loving attention to the dead child include washing the image of Jizo, providing fresh flowers, and bringing a toy or garment.
Buddhist parents think of the aborted mizuko as being sent back to this liquid state to bide its time until another opportunity at incarnation. Mizuko Kuyo rites are not funerals. These aborted fetuses or dead infants are not seen as part of the ancestral dead. Mizuko are in a kind of children's limbo called Sai-no-kawara or "the Riverbank in the land of Sai". This is a boundary place. There are actually places in Japan which are emblematic of Sai-no-kawara because of their forlorn feel. These are usually sea shore beaches. Little stone Jizo icons are often arranged in these places in rows of hundreds at a time. An impressive such place is at the northernmost tip of the island of Sado in the Japan sea. It can be reached only by walking from the road. Unlike the more hopeful and comforting atmosphere of the Purple Cloud Temple, these places are sad and gloomy.
They're not Catholic, which makes them liars.
I will certainly not want to be in her shoes, alone, before God on judgement day. Wow.
Living in hell for eternity is a long time.
And for some strange reason, I don't thing God is pro choice. I honestly believe God is Pro Life, could it be it was the first rule of the Jewish peoples Pentateuch, which contained 613 rules. I think it said be fruitful and multiply.
Hope you like the heat. Maybe you can bring an air conditioner with you.
I'll have to think about your thoughts on other religions some more. I find the study of religion fascinating myself. I dont know you personally and I certainly am hoping this doesnt come across as judgmental towards you. But Im seeing you dont give Christians a lot of credit for the amount of compassion and love they can offer along with their ability to not judge someone elses sins. Me? Ive got plenty of them Im the worst person I know. LOL I can never judge the condition of ones soul, but I can judge their actions or my own as good or evil. I dont know too many bad Christians myself, and if they are bad Christians, they arent really Christians. Mostly I know very loving, compassionate ones.
The rock thing bothered me the most. Not because Im opposed to other religions, but because the idea of a ROCK offering some kind of healing is ludicrous to me. A hard, cold rock in exchange for a baby is repugnant to me. Of course, it has something to do with my own personal belief that only THE spirit can provide comfort. Why wouldnt they offer a woman a cross? Would it be because she would be reminded of what the man who died on it, said about murder? To me that would suggest, deny God (the Judeo Christian God) and everything he says, and you wont suffer the guilt he imposes. Deny God and killing your unborn is OK. You know, the Ninevites didnt know the Hebrew God, and they still felt guilt and shame when they were slapped in the face with their sins. It doesnt matter what God you know ..you are still going to have feelings of guilt. Soooooooo ..offer her a rock and it will help her not feel guilty. A ROCK isnt going to make it go away. There is such a thing as appropriate shame. Thats what is wrong with this country, IMHO. People have no appropriate shame for their bad behavior.
Deny God and you can do whatever you want and not feel guilty. Guilt, just like any other emotion, is God given. When the spirit is ready, it will move your heart into action of repentance or amend making. Existence of guilt can also keep you from doing something wrong. If human beings had no guilt at all, we would all be sociopaths, and anarchy would reign. Human beings would cease to exist without the feeling of guilt or "shame". Of course, that's just my humble opinion.
I have never personally witnessed a woman being slapped in the face with guilt. I suppose it happens. When I hear of or personally witness a woman confessing her abortion, I hear sad tears and I see arms wrapped around the poor woman. Ive never seen smoke coming out of someones nose while condemning the woman to the innermost parts of hell. I think the Pro-Choice movement would have the world believe this happens.
About being closed or open minded. Abortion is probably the ONLY thing I will NEVER open my mind for. Ive made up my mind. To be open minded for me personally would be questioning my stance. I do not question my stance. I believe it is wrong and I will always believe it is wrong. Wrong for the baby and the mothers life. Anything else, I can be swayed with a logical argument (not easily, but there is a chance). LOL
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