ACLU take note: People are praying

Boston Herald ^ | 10/29/01 | Don Feder

[lexington minuteman 1775]

I doubt the ACLU will very successful considering the mood of the country. This and the patriotism may be one of the positive aspects of this war.

[Dimensio]

>"the Declaration of Independence is not a legally binding document of the United States"

I have often seen this statement, and it's simply wrong. The Declaration of Independence is an exptremely important and formally binding document which was debated and voted on during the Continental Congress in Philadelphia. (I refer those who doubt this to the recent biography of John Adams).

Interesting, in what year did this occur?
I've always thought that the DoI was an important historical document, I wasn't aware that it had any legal provisions within.

It was formally adopted by Congress, and was a the proximate cause of the war between the United States and Great Britain.

The war of 1812? There were no wars between the USA and Great Britian before then.

You may mean that the Declaration is not the framework of our laws, as the Constitution is. That is true and immaterial. The Declaration is not a letter, essay, newspaper article, or the expression of a single individual. It was drafted initially by Thomas Jeffeson, and each phrase was debated and voted on by Congress. In the end each member of congress signed it, giving it the force of law. It's what the subsequent war was about.

Again, I wasn't aware that there was a Congress -- at least not in the same sense of a Congress that existed after 1788 -- when the Declaration was drafted. I find it interesting because the rules for the formation and selection of Congress and its members are written in the Constitution, which was penned well after the DoI.
Tell me, if the Declaration of Independence is a binding document, what effect does it have on the country and its laws?

[Media2Powerful]

. It's not invoking the name of a God that bothers them so much as an authoritarian source turning it into an official proclimation.

With all due respect and I don't mean to be rude but have you read the Constitution lately? (And any of our other national documents as well as speeches by all of our former Presidents?) I believe you could call our founding fathers both authoritarian and official. They used the name of God all the time.

[Media2Powerful]

I dare say the ACLU would find our Constitution "unconstitutional".

[Dimensio]

>. It's not invoking the name of a God that bothers them so much as an authoritarian source turning it into an official proclimation.

With all due respect and I don't mean to be rude but have you read the Constitution lately? (And any of our other national documents as well as speeches by all of our former Presidents?) I believe you could call our founding fathers both authoritarian and official. They used the name of God all the time.

I have read the Constitution lately, but I apparently missed the references to "God". The only one I ran across was with reference to the signing where the date was written as being "in the year of our Lord" (as I understand it, a common convention at the time).
There are a two other references regarding religion: one states that no religious test shall be required as a qualification to holding any public office or trust in this country and the other is the First Amendment prohibiting Congress from making any laws respecting the establishment or inhibiting the free excercise of relgion.
There is much debate on the views of the Founding Fathers with respect to religion and government. You could doubtless provide numerous snippets of text from the speeches and writings of several of the founders where the name of God or Christ is invoked (though I understand that there are a few falsified "quotes" of this nature going about) and I could easily respond with an equal number from many of the same people affirming that the rules of religion and Christianity have no place in official government matters.

That's not the point here though. It was asked why anyone would object to the word "God" being invoked in a very generic sense and I offered a possible explanation.

[michaelje]

Feder never lets me down. Always a commendable job.

[Political Junkie Too]

Politicians are no longer fearful of breaching that mythical wall of separation (words which do not appear in the First Amendment).

This is not because of 9/11. This began with the endorsement of Joseph Lieberman as VP-candidate.

Remember, it wasn't okay when George Bush claimed Jesus as a philosopher that inspired him during the GOP primary debates, but it was okay for Lieberman to quote God and scripture during his acceptance speech as Gore's VP candidate.

That is when the quoting of religion by politicians became acceptable again. Now that Lieberman is not the VP, they are trying to put the genie back in the bottle.

-PJ

[Dimensio]

I dare say the ACLU would find our Constitution "unconstitutional".

That would create an oxymoron; I'm not sure how such a claim could be justified. It's like saying that the colour blue is just too red for your liking.

[Will_Kansas]

I have seen something in opinion pieces that I don't understand. Hope someone can tell me why this is done.

Why is G-d sometimes used in place of G-d? I do not understand that!

[moneyrunner]

"[I stated]...The Declaration of Independence is an exptremely important and formally binding document which was debated and voted on during the Continental Congress in Philadelphia. (I refer those who doubt this to the recent biography of John Adams).

[you replied]Interesting, in what year did this occur? I've always thought that the DoI was an important historical document, I wasn't aware that it had any legal provisions within."

The Declaration of Independence as passed on July 2, 1776, and printed and published on July 4th. Didn't you ever wonder what the 4th of July was all about?

It was passed by the Continental Congress after much debate. In fact, prior to the Declaration, there were months of debate as to whether the 13 colonies should declare their independence. There was a lot of resistance, due to the fact that the British dealt harshly with rebels, primarily by hanging them.

[I said]"It was formally adopted by Congress, and was a the proximate cause of the war between the United States and Great Britain.

[you replied] The war of 1812? There were no wars between the USA and Great Britian before then."

Just who do you thing we fought during the Revolution? You have to be kidding with this question.

[Will_Kansas]

Way to go Will!!!

I of course meant the second G-d to be God.

[TexanaRED]

Interesting that you should post this today. I just got the following email.

THOUGH SHE'S DEAD AND HAS JUST BEEN LOCATED, AFTER 5 YEARS, THIS LADY CONTINUES TO HAUNT US FROM HER SHALLOW GRAVE. GET THIS:

CBS will be forced to discontinue "Touched by an Angel" for using the word "God" in every program. Madeline Murray O'Hare, an atheist, successfully managed to eliminate the use of Bible reading from public schools a few years ago.

Now her organization has been granted a Federal Hearing on the same subject by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) in Washington, DC. Their petition, Number 2493, would ultimately pave the way to stop the reading of the gospel our Lord and Savior, on the airwaves of America.

They got 287,000 signatures to back their stand! If this attempt is successful, all Sunday worship services being broadcast on the radio or by television will be stopped. This group is also campaigning to remove all Christmas programs and Christmas carols from public schools!!

You as a Christian can help!

We are praying for at least 1 million signatures. This would defeat their effort and show that there are many Christians alive, well and concerned about our country. As Christians we must unite on this. Please don't take this lightly. We ignored this lady once and lost prayer in our school and in offices across the nation. Please stand up for your religious freedom and let your voice be heard. Together we can make a difference in our country while creating an opportunity for the lost to know the Lord.

Please press "forward," CLEAN UP THE MESSAGE, and forward this to everyone that you think should read this.

Now, please sign your name at the bottom (you can only add your name after you have pressed the "Forward." Don't delete any other names, just go to the next number and type your name. Please do not sign jointly, such as Mr. & Mrs. Each person should sign his/her own name. Please e-mail this to everyone that you think needs to read this, and help us defeat this organization and keep the right of our freedom of religion. When you get to 1000 please e mail back to Lisa Norman at electric_yello@hotmail.com mailto:electric_yello@hotmail.com

***********

If this is a new attack I think the athiests are in for a surprise in light of Sept. 11.

[Political Junkie Too]

I think it has something to do with not destroying anything with the word of God on it. People use G-d in it's place so as not to spell it out, thereby making it okay to throw away the writing. This is also why people use XMAS instead of Christmas. If this is an old wive's tale, then sorry for the disinformation.

[SubSailor]

Because "God and country" is a remnant of feudalistic and tribalistic mind control techniques, and has nothing to do with real American patriotism.

I posted the excerpt from the DOI in response to this poster's claim of God having nothing to do with real American patriotism. And, for you, another question: How could saying/displaying "God bless America" be misconstrued by any reasonable individual as Congress making a law respecting an establishment of religion?

[Dimensio]

CBS is not cancelling Touched by an Angel, or if they are it is not because of the use of the word "God". This is a false and malicious urban legend in much the same way the lie about the FCC censoring all religious broadcasting from radio is. Please stop spreading false information such as this.
More information can be found here. You discredit your cause by passing on such misinformation.

[SubSailor]

This is a tired old urban legend.

[Will_Kansas]

I think it has something to do with not destroying anything with the word of God on it.

I think you're onto something there. I seem to recall hearing the same thing about Christmas and Xmas, as you mentioned. Thanks for jolting this old man's skull full of mush.

[aculeus]

It's called civil disobedience. A tactic of the left used against the left.

I love it!

[Dimensio]

The Declaration of Independence as passed on July 2, 1776, and printed and published on July 4th. Didn't you ever wonder what the 4th of July was all about?

It was passed by the Continental Congress after much debate. In fact, prior to the Declaration, there were months of debate as to whether the 13 colonies should declare their independence. There was a lot of resistance, due to the fact that the British dealt harshly with rebels, primarily by hanging them.

I am well aware of the historical significance of July 4th. I was wondering how it was any kind of legally binding document, as it was drafted and submitted when the thirteen colonies involved were still a part of the British empire. For the DoI to be a legally binding document it would have needed approval from the British government. The British government did not approve the document and as such did not recognize the independence of the colonies.

The Declaration of Independence was the thirteen colonies of North America declaring to Britian, "We don't want to be a part of you anymore, so we are no longer a part of you.", but officially they couldn't be recognized as independent without the blessing (even if forced) the British.

[I said]"It was formally adopted by Congress, and was a the proximate cause of the war between the United States and Great Britain.

[you replied] The war of 1812? There were no wars between the USA and Great Britian before then."

Just who do you thing we fought during the Revolution? You have to be kidding with this question.

"We" did not fight anything during the Revolution because "we" (the USA) did not exist until after the Revolution, whereupon the British government officially recognized the independence of the colonies (and even then the British tried to reverse the position later, hence the War of 1812). Regardless of what people think of the Revolutionary War, it was originally a civil war between an empire and thirteen of its colonies (with other countries joining in where they could find an interest on one side or another) much like the Civil War of the US was a war between states of the same countries; it wasn't a war to reclaim lost independence, it was a war to establish the USA's independence.