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ACLU take note: People are praying
Boston Herald ^ | 10/29/01 | Don Feder

Posted on 10/29/2001 6:59:43 AM PST by truthandlife

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To: ArGee
I think you did fantastic. I was a bit more caustic than you. See posts 42 and 45. ;)

Shalom

61 posted on 10/29/2001 12:16:12 PM PST by JMJ333
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To: Will_Kansas
Why is G-d sometimes used in place of G-d? I do not understand that!

It is done by Orthodox Jews to avoid accidentally throwing the name of G-d in the trash or spilling coffee on it or something. They take the Name very seriously according to the commandment given to Moses.

I do it out of respect for the Orthodox Jews when I remember.

Shalom.

62 posted on 10/29/2001 12:23:57 PM PST by ArGee
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To: TexanaRED
CBS will be forced to discontinue "Touched by an Angel" for using the word "God" in every program. Madeline Murray O'Hare, an atheist, successfully managed to eliminate the use of Bible reading from public schools a few years ago.

This is not true. Do not spread. Tell everyone you know to ignore this!

Man, some of these urban legends are so hard to kill. It makes Christians look foolish every time we respond to this kind of stupid stuff.

The only reason CBS would cancel a show is if it were not getting the necessary ratings. Forget about any other reason. Nobody watched "Christy" and the show died. If people stop watching "Touched" the show will die. Otherwise it will live.

Shalom.

63 posted on 10/29/2001 12:28:25 PM PST by ArGee
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To: princess leah
I, for one, really dislike it when people say, "Oh my ___"

One place I worked I started responding to this kind of language by saying, "Please, Don't call me by that name in public." Some caught on, some got tired of the joke. All stopped taking His Name in vain.

In the same light, one day somebody suggested that everyone in a particular department were "f***ing morons." Once again, offended by their language, I said, "We don't care what they're doing on their private time. We need to be concerned with this memo." It cracked the room up and the speaker gave me a high-five, but the language stopped.

Just a thought - worth what you paid for it.

Shalom.

64 posted on 10/29/2001 12:36:54 PM PST by ArGee
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To: JMJ333
See posts 42 and 45.

Yep, saw them. Both barrells! Looks like ol' Todd was just doing a hit-n-run, though. Not like Dimensio who at least is sticking around.

Shalom.

65 posted on 10/29/2001 12:39:48 PM PST by ArGee
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To: princess leah
It amazes me how upset these ACLU and other groups get when God is used in a manner which involves praise or uplifting of the human spirit. However, when people are mad or angry and God's name is used in a profane manner, not ONE word is raised to defend how much it VIOLATES God Himself!

Agreed. Notice how they delight in movies and art that denegrates the Judeo-Christian G-d. That is covered under the 1st amendment, donttcha know.

66 posted on 10/29/2001 12:45:31 PM PST by JMJ333
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To: SubSailor
one who is in opposition to God. So, what type of people/entities are in opposition to God?****

You have pinged it exactly. And the ones in opposition to Him are the secular Humanists, the ones who make Man god over all. They're the ones who don't want there to be any rules, so that they don't have to abide by them or feel guilty for breaking them.

They have had a stranglehold on our Nation, and it was never clear how we - fighting valiantly to overcome them - were going to. A consequence of 911 was that it happened, instantly.

God indeed does work in mysterious ways.

67 posted on 10/29/2001 12:51:33 PM PST by The Right Stuff
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To: toddhisattva
"God" is just superstition. "God" is usually just "Santa Claus for adults," or worse he is an excuse for ignorance, misbehavior, and murder. ***

Obviously, you have not studied religion much. Get some books on the historical accuracy of the Bible, with new archaeological discoveries being added every day.

It might make you think.

68 posted on 10/29/2001 12:54:16 PM PST by The Right Stuff
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To: ArGee
I was hoping todd would stick around instead of hit and run--I was looking forward to signing all my posts with a blessing!

Shalom! ;)

69 posted on 10/29/2001 12:59:56 PM PST by JMJ333
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To: toddhisattva
oh puleeeze!

The fact that you've had the freedom to live your life the way you have up till now and make statements like this show that Christianity (& Christian fundamentalists & evangelicals) are not at all like the Taliban (which want to slit the throats of those who disagree with em).

Rather, out of love we want to share the Good News about knowing God and being forgiven of sins... and share how other can have eternal life. That's 180 degrees different from those in the Islamic extremeists.

70 posted on 10/29/2001 1:01:48 PM PST by blue jeans
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To: Dimensio
The issue is the appropriateness of the school acknowledging the existence of a God, and once doing that acknowledging a God who can be called upon through a generic statement to bless America.

You didn't answer this question earlier, so I'll post it again: How could saying/displaying "God bless America" be misconstrued by any reasonable individual as Congress making a law respecting an establishment of religion? What law is being enacted by Congress by the simple posting of a phrase on a sign owned by a school controlled by a local school board?

71 posted on 10/29/2001 2:38:16 PM PST by SubSailor
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To: SubSailor
>The issue is the appropriateness of the school acknowledging the existence of a God, and once doing that acknowledging a God who can be called upon through a generic statement to bless America.

You didn't answer this question earlier, so I'll post it again: How could saying/displaying "God bless America" be misconstrued by any reasonable individual as Congress making a law respecting an establishment of religion? What law is being enacted by Congress by the simple posting of a phrase on a sign owned by a school controlled by a local school board?


I don't recall that question being specifically asked to me, but my memory is poor and I often misread things.
The statement "God bless America" first and foremost implies an acknowledgement of the existence of a god of some sort. Depending on the context it could also be construed to mean a single God (capital G), which implies a monothestic worldview. A government entity making such a statement could be construed as taking the position that there exists a God and only one God (at least only one worth noting).
I'm not a lawyer and I don't claim to hold this position, so that's really the best I can explain it.
72 posted on 10/29/2001 3:01:17 PM PST by Dimensio
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To: Dimensio
”Well, yes, the colonies declared independence and acted as such, but they were still not offically free of British control so long as the British government chose to assert or enforce their authority -- that France recognized the independence of the colonies was no more official than the fact that Germany officially recognized the British rule thereof. The war and subsequent peace treaty are only of direct historical significance because the British lost control and the colonies gained independence -- had the war gone the other way (and no resurgence of rebellion occured) then it would have been regarded as a civil war between the British colonies and a large organization of rebels and traitors.”

What in the world do you mean by “officially free of British control.” Who is the official? What is the over-arching legal system to which you are appealing? The United States declared its independence, raised an army, made alliances with other countries, and won their war. What is so hard to understand.

I realize why you are raising these red herrings. You wish to make the Declaration of Independence an unofficial document. Sorry, it is not. It precedes the Articles of Confederation and the US Constitution, but is nevertheless as much an official document: drafted, debated, amended and passed by the United States Congress. It became the law of the land.

If you make the argument that if the United States had lost the revolutionary war, the British would have continued to rule North America, you are right. However, the Declaration would have been used to indict and convict its signers, and they would have hung as rebels.

And please, learn the difference between a civil war and a war for the independence of a colony.

”I understand fully that there are significant differences between the US Civil War and the War of Independence. The economic and political motivations were amongst them, but the purpose in the end was the same -- a group of states attempting to sever ties with their controlling nation to form an independent country of their own. The differences -- such as the one being an empire in an impossible struggle to hold control to a colony halfway across the world to maintain economic superiority while the other being a battle to prevent states within the same landmass from dropping out and likely causing economic chaos -- were likely amongst the reasons that one succeeded and the other failed.”

No, apparently you do not understand. First, the rebellion of the United Stated against the British crown was not at all an impossible struggle for the British. The British lost because of the intervention of the French navy. Please don’t forget that most of the growth of the British Empire occurred following the American Revolution, not preceding it. The British held on to India (somewhat farther away) for far longer. So the assumption of the inevitability of American success is sheer 20/20 myopia.

The American Civil War was not between an empire and its colonies. I doubt if the South would have regarded itself as a colony of the North. Sometimes Civil Wars are about who controls the national government, sometimes it is about breaking away, but it is always about a war within a single country.

The South failed in the Civil War because of had fewer men, industry and armaments. Plus, it failed to gather the support of foreign governments to offset its weaknesses. “Economic chaos” had nothing to do with it.

We have gone round about. The point is that the Declaration of Independence is more that flowery language and pious hopes devoid of official sanctions. It had the force of law in binding the individual states, as represented by the Continental Congress, to independence. Later laws and the Constitution only build on this basic framework.

73 posted on 10/29/2001 3:56:31 PM PST by moneyrunner
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To: toddhisattva
Take out "Communist" and insert "secular humanist" and then people will know where you're coming from. Scroll down on the items that don't apply. Read 'em and weep!

1963 Communist Goals

1) US acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war

2) US willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war

3) Develop the illusion that total disarmament by the US would be a demonstration of "moral strength"

4) Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

5) Extension of long term loans to Russia and Soviet Satellites

6) Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination

7) Grant recognition of Red China, and admission of Red China to the UN.

8) Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the Germany question by free elections under supervision of the UN

9) Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the US has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress

10) Allow all Soviet Satellites individual representation in the UN

11) Promote the UN as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the UN as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo)

12) Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party

13) Do away with loyalty oaths

14) Continue giving Russia access to the US Patent Office

15) Capture one or both of the political parties in the US

16) Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions, by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

17) Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for Socialism, and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers associations. Put the party line in text books.

18) Gain control of all student newspapers

19) Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20) Infiltrate the press. Get control of book review assignments, editorial writing, policy-making positions.

21) Gain control of key positions in radio, TV & motion pictures.

22) Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all form of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings", substitute shapeless, awkward, and meaningless forms.

23) Control art critics and directors of art museums. " Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art".

24) Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

25) Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography, and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio and TV.

26) Present Homosexuality, degeneracy, and promiscuity as "normal, natural, and healthy".

27) Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch"

28) Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the grounds that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state"

29) Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

30) Discredit the American founding fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man".

31) Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of "the big picture:" Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communiststook over.

32) Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture - - education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

33) Eliminate all laws or procedures, which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

34) Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

35) Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI

36) Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37) Infiltrate and gain control of big business

38) Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand or treat.

39) Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40) Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

41) Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42) Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special interest groups should rise up and make a "united force" to solve economic, political,or social problems.

43) Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

44) Internationalize the Panama Canal.

45) Repeal the Connally Reservation so the US can not prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction over nations and individuals alike.

No "sweet" signature here.

Jane

74 posted on 10/29/2001 4:34:11 PM PST by sweetjane
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To: Dimensio
"A government entity making such a statement could be construed as taking the position that there exists a God and only one God (at least only one worth noting)."

Once again, I fail to see how this simple three word phrase (God Bless America) could be misconstrued as CONGRESS enacting a law respecting the establishment of a religion. The 1st ammendment was designed to protect religion from government and not government from religion.

The thing that really grates on me about this is that the phrase is asking for blessings. What is so wrong about asking for blessings? If you are an atheist and don't believe in God, what does it hurt to ask for blessings from something you find nonexistent? It would be interesting to learn how many lawsuits of this nature have been filed on behalf of believers in non-monotheistic religions as opposed to atheists. I would predict that the vast majority are the result of objections raised by atheists. Why is that? I believe it is because of what I surmised in my first post on this thread; that they are not just atheist, but anti-God. When you look into the heart of a person, where do you suppose motivation for being anti-God comes from?

75 posted on 10/29/2001 6:49:45 PM PST by SubSailor
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