Airplanes & Guns: Myths and Reality

KeepAndBearArms.com ^ | sept 19, 2001 | Angel Shamaya

[RichardEdward]

please see the website for expanded discussion of the myths

https://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=2475

what does everyone else think about civilians carrying on planes?

[E. Pluribus Unum]

The link does not work. Try this one.

https://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=2475

[LS]

Not smart. Decompression DOES occur, depending on the gun. You cannot guarantee someone will not carry the "wrong" gun on. (Gee, that would be "gun control"). It is one thing for a crew member to be armed. But your gun goes off in your home or shed, maybe you get hurt, maybe you die. It discharges accidentally in the air, 250 people or more die. Not smart.

[Nitro]

Beware, this is a secure link

[Tacis]

Arming airline pilots is not that illogical. Many pilots for the major US airlines also belong to military reserve units where the often carry sidearms while on duty. Many of these pilots are already trained and quite comfortable with a weapon.

[Lurker]

Sure you can.

All airlines need to do is post a list of acceptable weapons and ammunition when you purchase your ticket.

For someone carrying an 'unapproved weapon', the airline could rent them one for a nominal fee.

Problem solved, and no government intervention is required.

L

[Highest Authority]

The Constitution and I both support your argument!

[Aurelius]

BUMP

[Nitro]

What if they built an aircraft that had what amounted to 200 separate toilet enclosures, each would be lined with Kevlar. They could have padded seats and seat belts, requiring the addition of a "You are now free to crap in the cabin" signs. Any beverage/food service could be accomplished via the use of light-weight pneumatic tubes and obviously any evacuation of the input would occur where you are.

With the added bonus of allowing anyone who wanted too, to smoke since they would be alone anyway!

[RoughDobermann]

Not smart. Decompression DOES occur, depending on the gun. You cannot guarantee someone will not carry the "wrong" gun on. (Gee, that would be "gun control"). It is one thing for a crew member to be armed. But your gun goes off in your home or shed, maybe you get hurt, maybe you die. It discharges accidentally in the air, 250 people or more die. Not smart.

What kind of "wrong gun"? A howitzer? Commercial aircraft already leak air through the outflow valve (I think that's what it's called). A single bullet (or a dozen) from a handgun would NOT cause explosive decompression, which is the one that is a tad bad, but still survivable. You have paid attention during the safety lectures before departure, right? Decompression is not that big a deal. Smashing into a building at 500 mph is, however.

[Justin Thyme]

Well, out of the 12 myths stated, 5 of them are, at a minimum, very poorly written.

Numbers 2, 3, 4, 7 and 11 all say may/might/could...and these words imply the possibility, if not the probability of something occuring. Therefore, they are not myths, but actual possibilities.

That's not even going into the fact that myths 2, 4, 10 and 11 all say very similar things (reducing the 12 myths to 8).

For the record, I am all for certain qualified, trained, and somewhat regulated people to carry firearms on an aircraft.

Also, having studied logic and philosophy (philosophy was my second major), the article is one of the poorest written rationalizations of the arguements for carrying guns on aircraft, rife with redundancy and sloppy logic.

[chainsaw]

Our government, for some unexplained reason, thinks that only FBI agents, or air martials are trustworthy enough to carry a weapon. Think about this.

The pilot is in control of a 300,000 lb. missile traveling faster than a .45 cal. bullet at muzzle velocity. Would it not be wise to allow him the means to defend that missile.

If a properly trained pilot is not trustworthy enough to handle a gun get him out of the cockpit.

If we have any Ruby ridge personnel on these planes take their guns away from them, they are not trust worthy.

[Paradox]

I agree with the others, its not the best article, but I would like to expound on the explosive decompression myth, which IS a myth. Its a hollywood invented myth. Its cool to show people flying around airplanes when someone shoots a gun, or to watch an Alien get sucked out into space through a tiny hole. Explosive decompression would occur when a significant breach of the cabin. A single bullet hole wouldn't suffice. Lets say a bad bullet hole would be 1/2 inch in diameter. I contend that you could stop up that hole with nothing but your thumb!

Such a hole would have an area of about 0.2 square inches. Now assuming the WORST case, that the cabin pressure is 14.7 psi, and the external pressure is zero (which only occurs in space), then you would have a sucking force of about 3 friggin pounds.

Take some superglue, make a 1/2 inch circle on your thumb, then stick it to a 3 lb. weight, then lift. Killing you? No. A bit sore maybe. Its no big deal.

That scene in Alien Resurrection, while certainly cool looking, was a crock of huey.

[BLASTER 14]

What? Say again all after "Not Smart".

You might want to check some of YOUR myths.

[Bobsat]

Everybody should check out the link. I especially like this:

"On the whole, citizens are more successful gun users than are the police. When police shoot, they are 5.5 times more likely to hit an innocent person than are civilian shooters." -- CATO Institute Policy Analysis No. 109, TRUST THE PEOPLE: THE CASE AGAINST GUN CONTROL, by David Kopel

[xm177e2]

MYTH #12 "We don't want the plane to depressurize at 30,000-feet because someone thinks they saw a hijacker." -- Representative Greg Walden

Judging by how some idiots have grounded flights because they saw people praying or they saw an Arab with some confetti... I don't think weapons-free is the answer for airplanes, I think they should be treated like the inside of a prison. But pilots should have access to handguns (or larger firearms) if they so choose.

[quietolong]

Not smart. Decompression DOES occur, depending on the gun. You cannot guarantee someone will not carry the "wrong" gun on. (Gee, that would be "gun control"). It is one thing for a crew member to be armed. But your gun goes off in your home or shed, maybe you get hurt, maybe you die. It discharges accidentally in the air, 250 people or more die. Not smart.

Funny in W.W.II The Japanese fighters shot 20mm’s into B-29 s and they did not blow up Just made the air inside leak out faster. And now there are handguns bigger than that now. I must have missed those.

It is possible for a handgun to cause explosive decompression. But it would need to hit a window. AND cause it to blowout. and this would not cause the plane to go down. Just everyone’s ears to pop. Aircraft have had this happen in flight. And have landed safely landed.

One of the tests they do when designing a craft is to shoot large harpoons about 5 ft across in to the pressurized fuselage to see that it don’t blow up.

[Publius6961]

It discharges accidentally in the air, 250 people or more die. Not smart.

Nor right, either.
If a firearm discharges accidental (not likely with a properly trained user) and if the bullet happens to go in the wrong direction, slow decompression might occur, as opposed to explosive decompression.

An unopposed hijacker, after Sept 11, will pretty much certainly cause the death of the hypothetical 250 people.

[Knitebane]

Well, now we know who isn't smart. Did you even bother to click on the link and read it?

I'll add my two bits again to the Aircraft Engineers quoted in the article. Having maintained cabin pressurization systems while in the Navy and having performed at least 30 on-ground cabin pressurization tests, I can tell you that one dozen bullet holes in the skin of an airplane flying at 30K feet might make your ears pop, but that's all. The cabin pressurization system can easily handle keeping the cabin pressurized to a safe level.

Any hole smaller than a coffee cup will not significantly affect the pressurization systems on transport aircraft.

Knitebane

[waterstraat]

bump