The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
TNS Archives

[Iowegian]

Catholics believe in a transcendent,triune God that is always with us and consequently are more likely to always be aware that we live in a natural world encompassed by the supernatural one.

Great, if you believe in God, then prove it by doing what He told us to do, NOT try to communicate with the dead. Pray only to God. Do the Jews pray to anyone but God? NO. Hint: there is a reason for this. Pagans pray to and worship their ancestors. We are told to NOT be like them. You either believe what God said or you don't, it's your choice, you are the one- along with God's reputation, that is harmed by it.

[Iowegian]

I believe this accounts for many of our differences and as a Catholic it would be disingenuous of me to not say I believe the Catholic Church possesses the fullness of truth. But believing that does not discount my admiration of many of the non-Catholics on this thread for trying to love and obey God as they know Him. I just wish they would stop belaboring the same old things,we need to work together for God,spiritually and temporally,we have many enemies today.

This ring hollow from someone who belongs to a church that says it is the "one true church" and makes many other arrogant claims for itself. Go back a little ways in this thread and read some of Conservative til I die's posts where he suggests that Holy Spirit resides only in and salvation is only it the RC church. He still hasn't answered my questions about that. I wonder why?

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I've only got about 30 minutes till I go back to church this evening, we're having a pot-luck, ummmmm:) Any way he hasn't come back yet so he may not, which is sad. I am sorry when people are as close minded as he seems to be. He is pretty biligerant. We should pray for him:)

Becky

[Conservative til I die]

Wha? Huh? So you agree that we call Mary blessed, yet it is wrong to call her blessed?????? Wha? Huh? I dont get it. Or you believe Mary is blessed, but its wrong to say that she is? Or that its wrong to say it to her? Wha? This ain't a contortion act fellas.

[Conservative til I die]

It wasn't called the Dark Ages for the reasons you think. Tell me how if, Christians living in the first 5 or 6 centuries after Christ believed the same things that Christians believed through the Dark Ages, how that can be the reason FOR the Dark Ages? I think something else was involved.

Quite a reach there.

[Conservative til I die]

We are not told to call her "blessed." Mary only affirmed that all would agree with her that she was a very blest woman.

This need's the Bill Clinton treatment: "Mah fellla Amercans. Ah (wagging finger)did nawt call that woman the Blessed mother 'blessed.' Ah onleh agreed to her self-affirmation of herself as a woman who was blessed. Thank ya vurry much."

This is the most hilarious bit of verbal contortion I've ever seen.

Tell me what the definition of 'is' is next.

[dignan3]

I hate to disappoint you, Conservative, and de-fuse your ammo, but I haven't even SEEN a Jack Chick comic in 25 years, never read a Dave Hunt book, and have never heard of the book you referred to as the bible of anti-catholicism. I limit my catholic education to Ott's "Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma", the NAB and Douay-Rheims versions of the Bible, Geisler's "Roman Catholics and Evangelicals: Agreements and Differences", newadvent.org, and EWTN (are those the right call-letters?) (I especially enjoy listening to Mother Angelica Live).

I also suggest that you add Catechism of the Catholic Church to your collection of source material. You can also read it online here

If you are feeling saucy, you may also want to check out these books by Robert Sungenis:

Not by Scripture Alone: A Catholic Critique of the Protestant Doctrine of Sola Scriptura
Not by Faith Alone : A Biblical Study of the Catholic Doctrine of Justification
Not by Bread Alone: The Biblical Evidence for the Eucharistic Sacrifice

Sungesis's books are wonderful, exhaustive defenses of Catholic teaching. Each book tries very hard to be non-polemical, and succeeds IMO. They also contain critiques, in the classical sense, of classical Protestant teaching and modern Protestant writings, including Geisler. If you love Truth, then I cannot even begin to recommend these books enough.

Pray for John Paul II

[Conservative til I die]

This is not a command for us to call her blessed. She was stating a fact that yes we do call her blessed,

So what's the problem then. I am right. We should call Mary blessed.

[Conservative til I die]

Actually I take this as a "there is no verse, it's an oral tradition." Not such an idiot after all am I. Becky

Actually, if you were to use the whole "pray to Mary/statues/saints" bit, then yes, you're a big idiot. Its a good thing that you've been arguing using things other than those strawmen, eh? (wink wink)

[Conservative til I die]

Shucks, if I quoted Scripture out of context, I'm just following the Protestant lead. Ah well, 842 strawmen arguments to go and we'll be even.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

you would know that we are to call her blessed.

Is all pilgrim and I are saying is this verse does not say we are to call her blessed, as if we are commanded to do it asy your statement implies. The verse simple states that Marys says nations will call her blessed, which we do. but we have not been commanded to call her blessed. We have not been commanded to pray to her, actuall quite the contrary (sp:).

Why do you have to be so hateful, BTW.

Becky

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

you would know that we are to call her blessed.

Is all pilgrim and I are saying is this verse does not say we are to call her blessed, as if we are commanded to do it asy your statement implies. The verse simple states that Marys says nations will call her blessed, which we do. but we have not been commanded to call her blessed. We have not been commanded to pray to her, actuall quite the contrary (sp:).

Why do you have to be so hateful, BTW.

Becky

[Conservative til I die]

Becky, he thinks that is a command to call her "blessed"!!!!!

Eh? When did I call it a command? You asked me how we can possibly say a Hail Mary and call her blessed. It is in the Bible.

[Conservative til I die]

Why do you have to be so hateful, BTW.

I don't think I'm hateful. Sorry I'm not agreeing with you 100% of the time, but that's the way it goes.

However, I've been called an idiot and insane by the Protestants here, all as "a loving witness in the name of Jesus" of course.

[Iowegian]

Quite a reach there.

Let's just say that in my personal opinion the Dark Ages were much longer and had a much more profound meaning than that which you find in an encyclopedia. Darkness is the absense (in whole or in part) of light after all.

[Iowegian]

Tell me how if, Christians living in the first 5 or 6 centuries after Christ believed the same things that Christians believed through the Dark Ages.

Christians in the apostolic age and the next few generations thereafter didn't believe what the current RC church today believes. In fact, the early RC church doesn't believe the same things that the current RC church believes. Most honest catholics will admit at least the second statement.

[Iowegian]

I'm still waiting for an answer to a serious question from #3378. Is the Holy Spirit only present in the RC church or is He present in others? If so, whom? Thanks.

[Conservative til I die]

Christians in the apostolic age and the next few generations thereafter didn't believe what the current RC church today believes. In fact, the early RC church doesn't believe the same things that the current RC church believes. Most honest catholics will admit at least the second statement.

Yeesh! I am sorry, 95% of what the early Christians believed. Maybe 94.27%

Lemme guess, the Dark Ages didn't end until the prophet Martin Luther came along and shredded 7 books of the Bible because he didn't like indulgences very much. And all was peaceful again. Until the Anglicans started starving the Irish Catholics to death.

[dadwags]

#3405
There are several prayers that Catholics use . One is, of course the "Doxology"
Glory be to the Father, to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit .
As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be world without end . Amen .
Then there is the "morning offering"
"O Jesus, through the Immaculate Heart of Mary, I offer you all my prayers, works,joys, and sufferings of this day for all the intententions of Your Sacred Heart, in Union with the holy Sacrifice of the mass throughout the world, in reparation for my sins,for the intentions of all our associates, and in particular, for the intententions recommended for this month by our holy Father, pope (N).
this is followed by the "Our father".
BTW I know there will be lots of flames from the "adversaries who are "accusing us night and day" about the intercessory elements there, but He promised us persecution .

[dadwags]

#3405
There are several prayers that Catholics use . One is, of course the "Doxology"
Glory be to the Father, to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit .
As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be world without end . Amen .
Then there is the "morning offering"
"O Jesus, through the Immaculate Heart of Mary, I offer you all my prayers, works,joys, and sufferings of this day for all the intententions of Your Sacred Heart, in Union with the holy Sacrifice of the mass throughout the world, in reparation for my sins,for the intentions of all our associates, and in particular, for the intententions recommended for this month by our holy Father, pope (N).
this is followed by the "Our father".
BTW I know there will be lots of flames from the "adversaries who are "accusing us night and day" about the intercessory elements there, but He promised us persecution .
Also, there is one "Oh my Jesus, forgive us our sins .Save us from the fires of hell. Lead all souls to Heaven, especially those in most need of Your Mercy ." That is used in the rosary .