The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
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[hopefulpilgrim]

Actually, us Catholics are pagans, as you guys suspected all along, so we have some wiiiiiild definitions of what sin is, believe you me!... I mean, after I sacrifice a bull to my statue of Mary, we go out and drink the blood of Jesus, I mean, the real blood! Like a cannibal!

"Fools mock at sin." Prov. 14:9. I rest my case.

[OLD REGGIE]

Good thing that I don't consider Mary or the saints or the Pope or a statue my mediator then eh?

"Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation. By her maternal charity, she cares for the brethren of her Son, who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and difficulties, until they are led into their blessed home. THEREFORE THE BLESSED VIRGIN IS INVOKED IN THE CHURCH UNDER THE TITLES OF ADVOCATE, HELPER, BENEFACTRESS, AND MEDIATRIX"

(Vatican II, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, chap. 8, II, 62, pp. 382-383).

POPE JOHN PAUL II HAS STATED THAT MARY IS CO-REDEEMER, MEDIATOR, ADVOCATE

At least five times Pope Paul II has referred to Mary by the title "Co-redemptrix" in his papal teachings. For example, in 1985, in Guayaquil, Ecuador, the pope said: "Mary goes before us and accompanies us. The silent journey that begins with her Immaculate Conception and passes through the ‘yes’ of Nazareth, which makes her the Mother of God, finds on Calvary a particularly important moment. … In fact, at Calvary she united herself with the sacrifice of her Son that led to the foundation of the Church; her maternal heart shared to the very depths the will of Christ ‘to gather into one all the dispersed children of God’ (Jn. 11:52). Having suffered for the Church, Mary deserved to become the Mother of all the disciples of her Son, the Mother of their unity. … In fact Mary’s role as Coredemptrix did not cease with the glorification of her Son"
(Inside the Vatican, July 1997, p. 23).

------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe you had better get used to it.

[hopefulpilgrim]

You call them roadblocks, we consider them enhancements! You think its all about "Jesus-n-me", where all you have to do is say "Yo Jesus, what's up, how are ya." Catholics believe in weekly fellowship with Christ through the Eucharist, seeking cleansing of our sins through Confession, doing charitable work, asking the saints to pray for us and for our loved ones, etc. These are all Biblical things.

In other words, "Nya, nyaa, nayaa!" ?????

Mr. Conservative, how do you know what we do or don't do?

Also, I want to ask this: Is your fellowship with Christ limited to the weekly "eucharist"? (serious question.)

[Conservative til I die]

NAB: "Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you."

[Conservative til I die]

I never said anything about what Protestants do and do not do. You called Catholic rituals roadblocks. I responded by talking about what Catholics do. Why are you trying to inject into this discussion something that wasn't there?

And regarding weekly Eucharist, no, it is not limited to being weekly. IN fact, the Eucharist is given everyday, multiple times. I only say weekly because many Catholics go to Church once a week, on the Sabbath.

[OLD REGGIE]

Let's rest it for a while. That horse is dead.

Peace

[tiki]

When you direct a conversation to someone are you praying to them? When you ask your church members to pray for you are you praying to them?

Hail, Mary
Hello, Mary
full of grace
Infused with Grace from God, you were a mere human, chosen by God to bear His Son, our Savior.
the Lord is with you.
Jesus is with you, you are in agreement with Jesus in everything because of God's Grace.
blessed are you among women
You are very holy, you experienced God as no other human being has, you carried the Incarnation of Jesus in your body, you became His mother, you loved Him, you cared for Him as your very own, well-loved child.
and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus.
Jesus is Blessed. He is our own true Savior who takes away the sins of the world and through Him we can be saved.
Holy Mary, Mother of God
You, Mary, who cooperated fully with God's Grace and so became Holy.
pray for us sinners
Pray for us.
now, and at the hour of our death.

[hopefulpilgrim]

Uh dude, reading a Jack Chick comic, flipping through Dave Hunt's garbage, or the bible of anti-Catholicism, Roman Catholicism, does not make you educated about Catholicism.

I hate to disappoint you, Conservative, and de-fuse your ammo, but I haven't even SEEN a Jack Chick comic in 25 years, never read a Dave Hunt book, and have never heard of the book you referred to as the bible of anti-catholicism. I limit my catholic education to Ott's "Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma", the NAB and Douay-Rheims versions of the Bible, Geisler's "Roman Catholics and Evangelicals: Agreements and Differences", newadvent.org, and EWTN (are those the right call-letters?) (I especially enjoy listening to Mother Angelica Live).

[Iowegian]

I only say weekly because many Catholics go to Church once a week, on the Sabbath.

Really? They go to church on Friday night? Or is it Saturday morning? Who changed the Sabbath? Last I checked it was still Saturday. The Lord's (Jesus) day, however, is Sunday. But aren't they all?

[Conservative til I die]

The Hail Mary, the more I look at it, seems more and more innocuous. I don't get what the big deal some people have with it.

[Iowegian]

When you direct a conversation to someone are you praying to them?

If they are not visibly in the room, that is physically, YES it is praying to them. What is so hard for you guys to understand about that?

[hopefulpilgrim]

Thanks, Reggie. Are you keeping track of all the excerpts which you are quoting from catholic sources? I wish you'd group them all together, along with their links so that we can go directly to the source, into a Word document or a really l-o-n-g email or something and send it to me. Excellent research work; I know it's time consuming, but it is so helpful to us who want to learn the truth about catholicism.

[OLD REGGIE]

NAB: "Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you."

Oh! I see!!!!!

This - Hail Mary,

Is this - Hail, favored one

[Conservative til I die]

When you direct a conversation to someone are you praying to them? If they are not visibly in the room, that is physically, YES it is praying to them. What is so hard for you guys to understand about that?

WHAT!?!? I've never heard anything so perposterous. OK< I just can't resist asking, so I'm gonna do it: Chapter, verse, please, thank you.

[Conservative til I die]

The 'favored one' is Mary. I assume you can comprehend that when person A directs their speech towards person B, that when they describe person B as 'favored one' that person B = 'favored one.'

[Conservative til I die]

By the way, does praying include when I speak to my girlfriend on my cell phone? What about when I'm talking to someone and I'm outside, and not in a room? Apparently, the definition of a prayer is whether you are surrounded by four walls and a ceiling, huh.

[OLD REGGIE]

Thanks, Reggie. Are you keeping track of all the excerpts which you are quoting from catholic sources? I wish you'd group them all together, along with their links so that we can go directly to the source, into a Word document or a really l-o-n-g email or something and send it to me. Excellent research work; I know it's time consuming, but it is so helpful to us who want to learn the truth about catholicism.

That's hard to say. If I quote from the Catholic Encyclopedia I merely give the source. For many others, I have the article or references in various places. Many times I have the URL on my "Favorite Places" list.

IOW, it depends. Perhaps, if you could ask for specific articles, etc., I could get them together.

[Iowegian]

If you are "talking to" someone that is not in the room to hear you there are only 2 possibilies I can think of:

1) You are praying to them, otherwise they won't hear you.

2) You are delusional and need to seek immediate professional help.

In your case, I would guess either is a possibility.

[hopefulpilgrim]

When you say: "Hail, Mary..." aren't you speaking to her and IMPLORING her to hear you and give you what you ask of her?

Heh, I guess that angel was a real stupid ass for saying to Mary "Hail, favored one!" in Luke 1:28, huh. Oh let me guess, that scripture is no longer considered inspired right?

Side-stepping the question, Conservative? Let me ask again. When you address Mary, aren't you asking her to hear you and give you what you ask her for?

[Iowegian]

By the way, does praying include when I speak to my girlfriend on my cell phone?

If your girlfried is still breathing, no it isn't praying.