Posted on 10/11/2001 9:39:48 AM PDT by malakhi
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The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles) -- Thread 161
First, what was wrong with them. And Second, were did you hear that they are not in older manuscripts?
I think SD was way over his quoto for the month, I have been keeping a running tab on all you Catholics who haven't overcome using discusting language yet, and he was in the lead by a couple a** and several ho**s. Lol
Yes, but Jonh's Gospel was writen in Greek.
First, what was wrong with them. And Second, were did you hear that they are not in older manuscripts?
Just when I was ready to hit the sack. lol
Well for a starter, My NKJV Greek English Interlinear of the NT, has a foot note that say's, "b(16:9-20)NU brackets vv. 9-20 as not original" and I think it says it in most of the Bibles I own, plus all the commentaries.
Hi hopeful! Yep, just doing my weekly Saturday night post-Shabbat catch up on the ol' Thread.
My father is Catholic, and my mother is Jewish. I was baptized and raised nominally Catholic, attended a Catholic high school etc. My parents were both more freethinkers than devoted to any particular religion or denomination. So my Catholic upbringing was not very strong, but I've always been interested in religion. I am also a voracious reader. So I've done a great deal of reading on a variety of religious traditions. When I was in college, I became an agnostic almost-but-not-quite to the point of atheism. I attended a variety of Protestant churches, including a bible church pretty regularly with my girlfriend at the time. Dabbled with the usual eastern religions and new age nonsense. An interest in mysticism led me to Catholic writers such as John of the Cross and Teresa of Avila, which ultimately led me back to the Catholic Church.
I became as staunch a Catholic as some of those you see posting on these threads. I even did some graduate work in theology. But I always had niggling doubts about the truth of the core claims of Christianity. The death of a childhood friend of mine (he was killed by a drunk driver) was something of a turning point for me. In trying to make sense of it all, I hit the scriptures even harder. The more I read the gospels, the less sense they made to me. I kept turning up inconsistencies and contradictions between what Jesus taught, and what was taught about him. I once went through and logged every reference I could find relating to salvation, and the answers were all over the map.
It occured to me that if I could learn more about the culture and background of Jesus, then his words might make more sense to me. So I began studying Judaism, which I had never really paid any attention to up until that time. I began reading the Hebrew scriptures through Jewish rather than Christian eyes. It "clicked". Here was something I could believe in without reservation, without checking my reason at the door (no "mysteries" like the trinity or the incarnation). It just spoke to me on a level far deeper than Christianity ever did. There is a traditional Jewish belief--based on Deuteronomy 29:13: "I make this covenant, with its sanctions, not with you alone, but both with those who are standing here with us today before the Lord our God, and with those who are not here with us today.”--that the souls of all Jews who will ever live were present at Sinai, and accepted God's covenant. This includes tinok shenishba such as myself, as well as converts to Judaism.
When I was young, reading my children's bible, Samuel was the character with whom I identified most strongly. The "Old Testament" stories seemed more "real" to me. I believe that even then God was calling me back to the Covenant He made with my people.
When these threads started back in March, I noted the replies ringing up on the "Latest Posts" thread. I managed to ignore them up until Thread 26, then my curiousity got the better of me and I poked my head in the door. I thoroughly enjoy discussing these issues with other passionate believers. It is great to be able to communicate and share ideas with others to whom these things actually matter (vs. the 'popular culture' which is more concerned about the latest sale at the mall or the next episode of Survivor). I blame Steven for making me a vocal and active participant. Early on, when I was somewhat hesitant to post my opinions, he freepmailed me and told me to jump right in. And here I am! I've met some terrific people, have had my beliefs challenged, and have been motivated to dig even further into my heritage to increase my learning and understanding. Like others, my belief is stronger for having participated in this forum.
I ended up 'moderating' here by default. We've had several 'moderators' over the course of the threads. dignan3 did it for much of the summer, and I backed him up when he was absent. When he started back to college this fall, I took over the duties. As a Jew, I provide something of an unbiased viewpoint in the Catholic-Protestant debates. I hope I can provide something of a calming influence when the debates get too personal (don't know how much success I have with that! ;o) Of course, I've had my share of in-depth discussions with both Catholics and Protestants, particularly over issues relating to prophecy in the Hebrew scriptures.
I can certainly see how, out of all of us, you'd be an expert at recognizing one. You still haven't told us why you're back after leaving a farewell message?
Start with Romans 2:14-15. Consider 1 Timothy 2:3-4, and 2 Peter 3:9. Also 1 Corinthians 15:22 and 1 John 2:2 and Romans 9:16. Then Daniel 4:35 and Job 42:2.
That should give you a start! ;o)
Nope, I don't have that kind of power. Only the "real" forum moderators can reply to abuse complaints and delete replies or threads. My being 'moderator' here is by dint of moral authority alone. The troops can mutiny and throw me overboard anytime they want. ;o)
Mt 13:15, KJV Quoting Christ quoting ISA 6:10
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
This from the Septuigant
Isa 6:10-c,[c] For the heart of this people has become gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
Christ was quoting from a Greek Septuagint Bible in Greek, none of the other translations are worded even similar to this.
I'm responding to one of them. Most of Havoc's posts are right on the money. But I can see why you're squirmin'.
Prior to the Enlightenment, there was precious little "freedom, liberty and democracy" to be found in any country, Catholic or Protestant. Think there might be a correlation?
Not Matthew. That was, according to early Christian writers, originally in Syro-Chaldaic.
Who is in second? Or is this a joke?
Are you serious? Irish, Italian and Jewish immigrants encountered a great deal of prejudice from the "Protestant Establishment". The whole drive for public education arose in the 1800s from a desire within Protestantism to stamp down "sectarianism". "Sectarianism" specifically referred to Catholicism, not to different protestant denominations. In response, Catholics started their own networks of parochial schools. Jews did the same thing, in response to the same Protestant hegemony of the educational system.
Mann succeeded in great part because nonsectarianism was a staple of evangelical Protestantism. Where theological division did exist, Mann exploited it to raise fears of sectarianism. Eventually, the generalized Protestant character of the common schools was enough to unify all but the most orthodox Protestants in support of government schooling. This was bolstered in part by Protestants’ reaction to increased Catholic immigration and the attempt by Catholics to gain tax support for their parochial schools. Author Andrew J. Coulson notes that some believed that little could be done to “salvage adult immigrants, irretrievably indolent and immoral as they allegedly were.” But that their children “could ostensibly be saved from the twin ailments of Irish birth and Catholic faith by the ‘great remedy’ of Protestant public schooling.” Indeed, the common school movement and anti-Catholic sentiment were inextricably bound up with one another. (Horace Mann, the End of Free-Market Education, and the Rise of Government Schools)
There's a punchline in there somewhere, but I can't make it out...
They aren't. It was a later interpolation, appending a Matthean-style resurrection account to the Markan text.
Yes, but dignan3 was seeking to make a case in John 6 that the Greek word used means "gnaw". He was trying to establish the literalness of the passage. I simply pointed out that here, he wished to have Jesus speaking Greek (if it were in Aramaic, translated into Greek, how do we know that the original connotation of the word was preserved in the translation?). But in Matthew 16:18, Catholics have argued that Jesus was speaking in Aramaic, thus "Kephas...Kephas" rather than "Petros...petra". As Iowegian pointed out, you can't have it both ways.
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