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To: mark502inf; Skylight; The Mayor; Prof Engineer; PsyOp; Samwise; comitatus; copperheadmike; ...
.......FALL IN to the FReeper Foxhole!

.......Good Friday Morning Everyone!


If you would like added to our ping list let us know.
3 posted on 10/10/2003 3:33:09 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
A very pleasant good morning to everyone at the Freeper Foxhole.
5 posted on 10/10/2003 3:52:00 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: snippy_about_it
Great read, as usual.

I've been searching the IMDB for the movie about a WWII plane crash in the desert, where the guys wait for years until found. Great ghost story. Anyone remember the name of the flick? Seems like it was made in the 60's.

No mention is made on the LadyBeGood site about a movie. Thanks for your help.
6 posted on 10/10/2003 4:06:40 AM PDT by texas booster (What is the over/under on how many days before the election is certified?)
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To: snippy_about_it
Good morning to you Snippy. I'll be back in a bit after I've had my coffee. :) Have a blessed day.
7 posted on 10/10/2003 4:13:21 AM PDT by SpookBrat (Vote Democrat! Millions on welfare are depending on you.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Hi Snippy-- Fascinating story. I think the author is confusing a "DF steer" which does not involve any direction-finding equipment onboard the aircraft, with the DF equipment on the B-24 which uses the loop he mentioned.

Modern ADF (Automatic Direction Finding) equipment on an aircraft can determine a bearing to an AM radio station. It has a needle that points to the station, and you can just turn the aircraft so the needle is aligned with the nose of the aircraft and follow it to the station. You can also triangulate with two or more stations to determine your position.

I guess they didn't have Automatic DF equipment in those days, since you had to crank around that loop antenna until it presented it's open side to the station. IIRC, this old equipment would only tell you that the remote transmitter was on bearing so-and-so, or it's reciprocal. I don't think they had discovered quadrature, yet, where you could mix the signal from the loop antenna with another signal from an omnidirectional antenna and eliminate the spurious bearing. (I'm probably not getting this exactly right...)

A DF (Direction Finding) steer is where you key your mike in the aircraft and just say "Ahhhhhhhhhhh...." for about ten seconds. In this case, the remote station has the direction finding equipment and determines a bearing to your aircraft. They then tell you what heading to fly to get there (possibly taking winds aloft into account).

I was wondering, also, if the military in those days did not provide any kind of survival equipment for their crews. Anybody?

8 posted on 10/10/2003 4:18:48 AM PDT by snopercod (Give us Bread and Roses...)
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To: snippy_about_it
Ouch.
And they survived longer than they should have.
13 posted on 10/10/2003 5:10:44 AM PDT by Darksheare (Hey, DU Urkers. When you stand on your head, does it go 'squish'?)
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To: snippy_about_it
Present!
18 posted on 10/10/2003 5:48:46 AM PDT by manna
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf; radu; Darksheare; All
Good morning everyone in the Fox Hole.
27 posted on 10/10/2003 6:53:47 AM PDT by Soaring Feather (Poet's Rock the Boat!!)
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To: snippy_about_it
Good Morning Snippy. Great thread today.
31 posted on 10/10/2003 7:43:16 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Blame Saint Andreas - it's all his fault.)
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf
Morning Glory Snip & Sam~

What an amazing story. How thankful we can be that these great men can be honored and memorialized after such a tragic event.

36 posted on 10/10/2003 8:04:29 AM PDT by w_over_w (Ask ME how YOU can earn a extra $1500.00 a day using this tagline space!)
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To: snippy_about_it
For another story of a B-24 Pilot in Germany please click here: Robert Voight

Air Power
Consolidated B-24 "Liberator"

With over 18,000 aircraft built the Consolidated B-24 Liberator was produced in even greater numbers than the other famous Second World War US bomber, the B-17 Flying Fortress. The Liberator gained a distinguished war record with its operations in the European, Pacific, African and Middle Eastern theaters. One of its main virtues was a long operating range, which led to it being used also for other duties including maritime patrol, antisubmarine work, reconnaissance, tanker, cargo and personnel transport. Winston Churchill used one as his own transport aircraft.

The aircraft was originally designed to a United States Army Air Corps requirement, and the prototype first flew on December 29,1939. Meanwhile, orders for production aircraft had also been received from Great Britain and France, who had tried desperately to build up and modernize their air forces for the war which had been inevitable. However, the Liberator was not available to France by the time of its capitulation, and French-ordered aircraft were diverted to Britain.

Among the first Liberators to go into British service were six used as transatlantic airliners with BOAC, while others went to Coastal Command as patrol aircraft. As production in the States continued to expand, taking in other manufacturers to help build the type, versions appeared with varying armament and other differences. Liberators also found their way into the United States Navy, the Royal Canadian Air Force and the armed forces of other countries. In Europe, Bomber Command of the Royal Air Force concentrated mainly on night bombing, while the United States Army Air Force operated mainly as a day bombing force. On December 4,1942 US Liberators of the 9th Air Force attacked Naples, recording their first raid on Italy, followed on July 19,1943 by the first raid on Rome by 270 Liberators and B-17 Flying Fortresses of the USAAF casualties among the US day bombing forces were high, until the perfection of formation flying and the support of long-range escort fighters. This was well illustrated on August 17,1943 when 59 bombers were shot down while attacking German ball-bearing factories, followed by 60 losses in a similar raid in October. In March 1944 a large force of US Liberators and B-17 Flying Fortresses attacked Berlin in daylight, the first of several such raids.

Incredibly, Liberators are recorded as having dropped over 630,000 tons of bombs, while several thousand enemy aircraft fell to their guns. Some were converted to carry the first US air-to-surface, radar-guided missile, the Bat, and in April 1945 a Bat sank a Japanese naval destroyer. After the war the Liberator continued to serve with the United States forces, notably as an air rescue and weather reconnaissance aircraft with the Coast Guard in the 1950s.

The first major external change of the B-24 lines appeared on the twenty-sixth B-24G, when a new nose was designed to include a power turret containing two .50-cal. guns for frontal protection. This most effective forward arrangement increased the length to 67 feet 2 inches. The Sperry ball turret became standard equipment on this and following models.

The B-24J Liberator was the variation produced in the largest quantity; a total of 6,678 being constructed. It was so similar to the G and H models that the latter were modified to become B-24Js by changing the autopilot and bombsight. Armed with twin .50-cal. Brownings in the nose, upper, lower ball, waist, and tail turrets, a total of 5,200 rounds of ammunition were carried. The top speed of 290 mph was provided by four Pratt & Whitney supercharged R-1830-65's with 1,200 hp each. Cruise was 215 mph and landing speed was 95 mph with its Fowler flaps. Rate of climb was 1,025 feet per minute, and service ceiling was 28,000 feet. Empty, the B-24J weighed 36,500 pounds and grossed out at 56,000 pounds. Maximum range extended 3,700 miles. The Wing span was 110 feet; wing area, 1,048 square feet; length, 67 feet 2 inches; height, 18 feet. Fuel capacity was 3,614 gallons.

The 1,667 B-24Ls and 2,593 B-24M models varied only slightly in armament fixtures from their predecessors. Several B-24s were used as transports under the Air Force designation of C-87 Liberator Express and a few became C-109 fuel tankers.

During 1943 the Allies increased their air attacks on key points in Hitler's Fortress Europe. In July British bombers turned Hamburg into an inferno. Dropping strips of tin foil to confuse the German radar system, the RAF dumped tons of incendiary and high-explosive bombs on the city. When the ten days of sustained raids were over, 70,000 people were dead, and Hamburg as a city had almost ceased to exist.

The Luftwaffe, however, was still able to inflict punishing losses on bombers that attacked strategic targets farther inland, beyond the range of escorting fighters. Almost one-third of the B-24s that made a low level raid on the oil refineries of Ploesti, Rumania in August were shot down. Sixty planes and their crews were lost on August 17 in raids against Schweinfurt and Regensburg, and in October, 148 bombers were lost in six days. The Combined Bomber Offensive was damaging Germany, but the cost was high.

Specifications:
Primary Function: Heavy Bomber
Contractor: Consolidated
Crew: Ten
Powerplants: Four Pratt & Whitney R-1830-43 or -65 fourteen cylinder radial engines at 1,200 hp each

Dimensions:
Length: 67 ft, 2 in (20.47 m)
Wingspan: 110 ft (33.53 m)
Height: 18 ft (5.49 m)
Empty weight: 37,000 lb (16,798 kg)
Maximum Takeoff weight: 65,000 lb (29,510 kg) -- operational

Performance :
Speed: 290 mph (467 km/h)
Ceiling: 28,000 ft (8,540 m)
Range: 2,200 mi (3,540 km)

Armaments:
Six .50-calibre guns;
four .303-in. guns in a Boulton Paul tail turret
internal bomb load of 8,000 lb (3,632 kg) w/ optional external bomb racks






All photos Copyright of their respective websites.

80 posted on 10/10/2003 2:07:16 PM PDT by Johnny Gage (God Bless President Bush, God Bless our Troops, and GOD BLESS AMERICA)
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