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The FReeper Foxhole Presents the Saturday Symposium - Towed vs. Self-Propelled - August 27th, 2005
see educational sources

Posted on 08/26/2005 10:14:46 PM PDT by snippy_about_it



Lord,

Keep our Troops forever in Your care

Give them victory over the enemy...

Grant them a safe and swift return...

Bless those who mourn the lost.
.

FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer
for all those serving their country at this time.



...................................................................................... ...........................................

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Towed or self propelled guns? Which will be more successful in the future?




Towed Guns




Towed guns are, as the name implies, artillery pieces that must be towed by another vehicle. They are more powerful than mortars, and they have greater range. The M198 155mm howitzer, for example, can hurl a wide variety of 155mm projectiles as far as 18 km (33 km with rocket assist). It can also be used for multiple simultaneous strikes, and it can fire high explosive shells, anti-personnel or anti-armour mine-laying systems, tactical nuclear warheads, chemical weapons, smoke projectiles, communications jamming devices, remote sensors, illuminating projectiles, and even special guided projectiles. It is more than capable of destroying infantry, buildings, or armoured vehicles, so it is used to hit "deep targets" well behind the front lines. This can include armoured columns moving to the front, enemy artillery, etc. Towed guns can even be small enough to be highly portable. For example, the British Army has a 105mm light gun which is air portable, yet has a maximum range of more than 17 km. The example pictured at right is equipped with a Marconi LINAPS automatic aiming system.

However, the towed gun's primary weakness is its lack of mobility. Since a towed gun can be targeted from the flight path of its projectile, it is an obvious target for enemy counter-attack. It also has difficulty keeping up with rapidly moving mobile forces, since the number of available tractors is generally smaller than the number of guns. Therefore, the towed gun has been largely supplanted by the self-propelled gun in modern armies. However, the towed gun is much less expensive than the self-propelled gun, and in today's complex global environment, the enemy need not be a large, well-armed national military force. It could be anything from terrorists to criminal organizations, and in many cases, these enemies are poorly equipped, lacking effective field artillery or projectile tracking systems. Against such an enemy, a towed artillery piece can be a lethal and virtually untouchable implement of war.

Self-propelled Guns




Mobile warfare is hampered by immobile artillery support, so a full-scale conventional warfare scenario requires self-propelled artillery pieces such as the American M110A1. This is a self-propelled 203mm howitzer. It has been in service for decades, and can be found in the armies of numerous countries around the world. It can fire an 8-inch diameter, 92.5 kg high explosive projectile to a maximum range of 21.3 km, and a rocket-assisted projectile to a maximum range of 29.1 km. It can also fire a variety of other projectiles if necessary, like the towed M198 mentioned above, but unlike the M198, it can travel at nearly 60 km/h under its own power. It also has a shovel-like attachment which digs into the ground to stabilize the platform against the prodigious force of recoil from its massive gun. It should be noted that this gun provides no protection whatsoever for its crew, and that this sort of self-propelled gun is actually the exception rather than the rule. Most self-propelled guns have an enclosed crew cab for protection as well as greater ammo storage.

The doctrine of self-propelled gun deployment calls for large numbers of independent units to situate themselves around the countryside and move with the infantry and armour units. When a target is identified by the spotters, all of these artillery pieces will simultaneously open fire and shower it with shells, before pulling up stakes and changing positions in order to avoid the inevitable enemy artillery counter-attack (the slang term is "shoot and scoot". In this way, mobile artillery units achieve the dangerous combination of mobility, dispersion, and firepower concentration.


sym·po·sium : a social gathering at which there is free interchange of ideas

So now let's get on with the discussion. Special thanks to USMCBOMBGUY for today's subject. His question was "Towed or self propelled artillery? Which will be more successful in the future?" I took the liberty of narrowing the subject down to guns rather than all artillery. Pull up a chair or grab a spot on the floor around the virtual Foxhole Cabin and let's chat.



FReeper Foxhole Armed Services Links




TOPICS: VetsCoR
KEYWORDS: artillery; fampl; fapl; freeperfoxhole; history; samsdayoff; saturdaysymposium; selfpropelledguns; towedguns; veterans
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To: Professional Engineer

You're not putting engineering books under her pillow at night are you?


81 posted on 08/27/2005 8:40:19 PM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: Samwise

Aye, we do. To rip off a phrase, "I'm lovin' it".


82 posted on 08/27/2005 8:42:09 PM PDT by Professional Engineer (As an Engineer, you too can learn to calculate the power of the Dark Side.)
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To: snippy_about_it

Not yet, I'm starting her off slowly. We're up to Integral Calculus now.


83 posted on 08/27/2005 8:43:00 PM PDT by Professional Engineer (As an Engineer, you too can learn to calculate the power of the Dark Side.)
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To: Darksheare

Did you know they inflate your stomach cavity area with CO2 before truying to dig anything out?

Learn something new everyday.


84 posted on 08/27/2005 8:43:31 PM PDT by Valin (The right to do something does not mean that doing it is right.)
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To: snippy_about_it; Samwise

MSdrby brought some gumbo back from her mom's tonight. I'm having a bowl. The knackster is in her swiping it a bite at a time.

Why can't we get her brother to eat anything? hmmm


85 posted on 08/27/2005 8:45:54 PM PDT by Professional Engineer (As an Engineer, you too can learn to calculate the power of the Dark Side.)
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To: Professional Engineer

ROTFLMAO. It's Professional (LBJ) Engineer.


86 posted on 08/27/2005 8:49:47 PM PDT by Samwise ("You have the nerve to say that terrorism is caused by resisting it?")
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To: Professional Engineer

Thanks for the pic. Looks good from here.


87 posted on 08/27/2005 9:03:00 PM PDT by Iris7 ("A pig's gotta fly." - Porco Rosso)
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To: Iris7

I'm doing pretty well really. Heck, I'm eating gumbo, and drinking a beer!


88 posted on 08/27/2005 9:06:17 PM PDT by Professional Engineer (As an Engineer, you too can learn to calculate the power of the Dark Side.)
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To: Valin

Laparoscopic surgery is rather intriguing to read about.
Though seeing pics of someone with their tummy inflated out like that is rather disturbing.
(Saw pics of a laparoscopic appendectomy, looked quite odd in a fascinating way.)


89 posted on 08/27/2005 9:07:00 PM PDT by Darksheare (There is a Possum in the works.)
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To: SAMWolf
I think you have the right of it.

A number of Israeli artillery systems, and it looks like this one, can emplace with flipping one switch, shoot the ready ammunition, and de-emplace by flipping the switch back. Maybe drive up, stop, shoot four, and leave in a minute or less. Something like that.
90 posted on 08/27/2005 9:15:12 PM PDT by Iris7 ("A pig's gotta fly." - Porco Rosso)
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To: Professional Engineer
You sound cheerful. Good.

Your little daughter's pics bring out the granddad feeling real strongly here. Good to see her getting a good education!! Integrals are a little heavy going, what little I remember of them!! Prefer machine approximations, hey!

Don't get too excited if you have a down day. You will. It is expectable.

Your surgical wounds look very good outside. The technique used does not require cutting muscle bundles, instead a splitting with the grain and pushing aside technique is used. Heals really fast, no cramps or real pain, very good stuff. Reasonable body fat (envy, envy here!!) means infection very unlikely. Do. What. Your. Physician. Tells. You.

Take care, never enough good engineers to waste one.
91 posted on 08/27/2005 9:31:35 PM PDT by Iris7 ("A pig's gotta fly." - Porco Rosso)
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To: Darksheare

Laparoscopic surgery is rather intriguing to read about.

I think I'll wait for the movie. :-)

I had an endascope(sp) done for a study of ulcers, the doc said "do you want to look?" oh silly me I said yes...never gonna make that mistake again! It all Icky in there.


92 posted on 08/27/2005 9:58:00 PM PDT by Valin (The right to do something does not mean that doing it is right.)
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To: Samwise; All

Over there is on again tonight if you missed it like I did. Starting right now.


93 posted on 08/27/2005 10:01:51 PM PDT by USMCBOMBGUY (You build it, I'll defeat it!)
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To: Iris7; SAMWolf

Wonder what the price tag is on one of those? It doesn't look N.B.C. capable, which of course is a big plus for SP arty.


94 posted on 08/27/2005 10:02:24 PM PDT by Valin (The right to do something does not mean that doing it is right.)
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To: Valin
It is a sad fact that although many military vehicles are NBC capable now, most are not maintained well enough to be relied upon. So you end up getting in your NBC capable vehicle only to still have to don your protective gear. I guess it is still better to have then have not. Before the war kick off the Fox vehicles kept failing the test because the sand was playing hell with the over pressure system and tripping the fuse for the blower. From what I here this has been fixed but was a concern for quite some time.
95 posted on 08/27/2005 10:21:51 PM PDT by USMCBOMBGUY (You build it, I'll defeat it!)
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To: USMCBOMBGUY

I guess it is still better to have then have not.

Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.




Night all


96 posted on 08/27/2005 10:30:11 PM PDT by Valin (The right to do something does not mean that doing it is right.)
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To: Valin
No truer words.....

Good Night
97 posted on 08/27/2005 10:33:41 PM PDT by USMCBOMBGUY (You build it, I'll defeat it!)
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To: All
For those of you who are interested.
This is a briefing on the M777, the future of Marine artillery.
http://sill-www.army.mil/USMC/LW155/Docs/1

They have them out on Pendleton right now, very cool piece of gear.
98 posted on 08/27/2005 10:48:05 PM PDT by USMCBOMBGUY (You build it, I'll defeat it!)
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To: USMCBOMBGUY

http://sill-www.army.mil/USMC/LW155/Docs/1


99 posted on 08/27/2005 10:51:03 PM PDT by USMCBOMBGUY (You build it, I'll defeat it!)
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To: USMCBOMBGUY
Grrrrr,
Problems with that link, try this one
http://sill-www.army.mil/USMC/LW155/
Click on M777 introduction
100 posted on 08/27/2005 11:03:22 PM PDT by USMCBOMBGUY (You build it, I'll defeat it!)
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