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The FReeper Foxhole Presents the Saturday Symposium - Towed vs. Self-Propelled - August 27th, 2005
see educational sources

Posted on 08/26/2005 10:14:46 PM PDT by snippy_about_it



Lord,

Keep our Troops forever in Your care

Give them victory over the enemy...

Grant them a safe and swift return...

Bless those who mourn the lost.
.

FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer
for all those serving their country at this time.



...................................................................................... ...........................................

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Towed or self propelled guns? Which will be more successful in the future?




Towed Guns




Towed guns are, as the name implies, artillery pieces that must be towed by another vehicle. They are more powerful than mortars, and they have greater range. The M198 155mm howitzer, for example, can hurl a wide variety of 155mm projectiles as far as 18 km (33 km with rocket assist). It can also be used for multiple simultaneous strikes, and it can fire high explosive shells, anti-personnel or anti-armour mine-laying systems, tactical nuclear warheads, chemical weapons, smoke projectiles, communications jamming devices, remote sensors, illuminating projectiles, and even special guided projectiles. It is more than capable of destroying infantry, buildings, or armoured vehicles, so it is used to hit "deep targets" well behind the front lines. This can include armoured columns moving to the front, enemy artillery, etc. Towed guns can even be small enough to be highly portable. For example, the British Army has a 105mm light gun which is air portable, yet has a maximum range of more than 17 km. The example pictured at right is equipped with a Marconi LINAPS automatic aiming system.

However, the towed gun's primary weakness is its lack of mobility. Since a towed gun can be targeted from the flight path of its projectile, it is an obvious target for enemy counter-attack. It also has difficulty keeping up with rapidly moving mobile forces, since the number of available tractors is generally smaller than the number of guns. Therefore, the towed gun has been largely supplanted by the self-propelled gun in modern armies. However, the towed gun is much less expensive than the self-propelled gun, and in today's complex global environment, the enemy need not be a large, well-armed national military force. It could be anything from terrorists to criminal organizations, and in many cases, these enemies are poorly equipped, lacking effective field artillery or projectile tracking systems. Against such an enemy, a towed artillery piece can be a lethal and virtually untouchable implement of war.

Self-propelled Guns




Mobile warfare is hampered by immobile artillery support, so a full-scale conventional warfare scenario requires self-propelled artillery pieces such as the American M110A1. This is a self-propelled 203mm howitzer. It has been in service for decades, and can be found in the armies of numerous countries around the world. It can fire an 8-inch diameter, 92.5 kg high explosive projectile to a maximum range of 21.3 km, and a rocket-assisted projectile to a maximum range of 29.1 km. It can also fire a variety of other projectiles if necessary, like the towed M198 mentioned above, but unlike the M198, it can travel at nearly 60 km/h under its own power. It also has a shovel-like attachment which digs into the ground to stabilize the platform against the prodigious force of recoil from its massive gun. It should be noted that this gun provides no protection whatsoever for its crew, and that this sort of self-propelled gun is actually the exception rather than the rule. Most self-propelled guns have an enclosed crew cab for protection as well as greater ammo storage.

The doctrine of self-propelled gun deployment calls for large numbers of independent units to situate themselves around the countryside and move with the infantry and armour units. When a target is identified by the spotters, all of these artillery pieces will simultaneously open fire and shower it with shells, before pulling up stakes and changing positions in order to avoid the inevitable enemy artillery counter-attack (the slang term is "shoot and scoot". In this way, mobile artillery units achieve the dangerous combination of mobility, dispersion, and firepower concentration.


sym·po·sium : a social gathering at which there is free interchange of ideas

So now let's get on with the discussion. Special thanks to USMCBOMBGUY for today's subject. His question was "Towed or self propelled artillery? Which will be more successful in the future?" I took the liberty of narrowing the subject down to guns rather than all artillery. Pull up a chair or grab a spot on the floor around the virtual Foxhole Cabin and let's chat.



FReeper Foxhole Armed Services Links




TOPICS: VetsCoR
KEYWORDS: artillery; fampl; fapl; freeperfoxhole; history; samsdayoff; saturdaysymposium; selfpropelledguns; towedguns; veterans
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Good morning everyone. Enjoy your Saturday and a break from the Foxhole into the cabin. Come nightfall please feel free to join us around the campfire.



Educational sources:

www.global-defence.com/2000/pages/artil.html

www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Ground/Artillery.html





1 posted on 08/26/2005 10:14:49 PM PDT by snippy_about_it
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To: Colonial Warrior; texianyankee; vox_PL; Bigturbowski; ruoflaw; Bombardier; Steelerfan; ...



"FALL IN" to the FReeper Foxhole!



Good Saturday Morning Everyone.

If you want to be added to our ping list, let us know.


2 posted on 08/26/2005 10:16:04 PM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: All


Showcasing America's finest, and those who betray them!


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Veterans for Constitution Restoration is a non-profit, non-partisan educational and grassroots activist organization.





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Thanks to quietolong for providing this link.



We here at Blue Stars For A Safe Return are working hard to honor all of our military, past and present, and their families. Inlcuding the veterans, and POW/MIA's. I feel that not enough is done to recognize the past efforts of the veterans, and remember those who have never been found.

I realized that our Veterans have no "official" seal, so we created one as part of that recognition. To see what it looks like and the Star that we have dedicated to you, the Veteran, please check out our site.

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3 posted on 08/26/2005 10:16:55 PM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it

Night Shift Bump for the Saturday Symposium and in before whatever

Regards

alfa6 ;>}


4 posted on 08/26/2005 10:47:05 PM PDT by alfa6 (Any child of twelve can do it, with fifteen years practice)
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To: snippy_about_it

I'm wondering why SP guns don't also tow a Howie of the same calibre. The artillery could pound a few shots from each, saddle up and scoot, and use the incoming enemy fire on their former position to range for their next salvo.

They could also target two separate positions from the same firing point simultaneously.

I'm just a civvie, and I'm sure it's been discussed at one time or another, but I've never seen or heard any discussion/articles about the idea.

Then again, it could be that it was tried at one point, and went the same way as jacketless ammo for small arms.


5 posted on 08/26/2005 10:49:52 PM PDT by Don W (The French are worthless in the world and anything they do make we can make better and cheaper.)
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To: Don W; Darksheare

Two problems with your scenario DonW...

1} Where is the crew gonna ride for the towed piece?

2} Where is the ammo gonna ride.

Let's ask Darksheare since IIRC he was a redleg.

Regards

alfa6 ;>}


6 posted on 08/26/2005 10:55:09 PM PDT by alfa6 (Any child of twelve can do it, with fifteen years practice)
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To: alfa6

Perhaps a "B" train setup? Or a large enough crew compartment in the slightly longer (for ammo stores) SP gun?

Just asking. As I said earlier, I'm just curious. A bit ignorant re: artillery requirements too.


7 posted on 08/26/2005 11:26:20 PM PDT by Don W (The French are worthless in the world and anything they do make we can make better and cheaper.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Good morning, Snippy.

The reason everybody is worried about the survivability of towed artillery of all sizes is computer controlled counter battery fire radar systems. That is, exotic radars that can track artillery shells and direct fire on the piece shooting.

An example, current state of the art:

AN/TPQ-47 Firefinder Block II Radar

The AN/TPQ-47 (Formerly AN/TPQ-37 P3I Block II) is the next generation Firefinder, which will replace the AN/TPQ-37 antenna transceiver group (ATG) utilizing advanced technology that will provide rapid and increased target location, improved accuracy, and target classification at greater ranges. This is a new capability to provide the warfighter continuous and responsive counterbattery target acquisition for all types and phases of military operations. This system will compliment the next generation of longer range weapons and munitions being developed for fire support, and revolutionize the way the Army conducts the weapon locating mission.

The AN/TPQ-47 will provide a significant capability to the Army by doubling the current artillery detection range of the AN/TPQ-37. It also adds a new mission area for Firefinder to detect Tactical Ballistic Missiles out to 300 kilometers in range. Proposed requirements for the AN/TPQ-47 include increased range and accuracy for both conventional artillery (60 km) and tactical ballistic missiles (250+ km) locations, enhanced survivability against DF/ARM threat, drive on/off C-130 and larger aircraft, on-board pos-nav system, remote operational capability, and ability to process stored targets on the move. The improvements are especially critical in the role the AN/TPQ-47 can play in deep operations and the active, passive defense attack operations against tactical ballistic missiles. Other capabilities include target classification, reliable target identification, automated emplacement and greatly reduced operating and sustainment costs.

The AN/TPQ-47 configuration includes the Operation Central, the Antenna Transceiver Group, the Prime Power Group, and the Portable Operations Suite. The upgrade will replace the Antenna Transceiver Group to double the current range performance for detecting incoming fire from mortar, artillery, and rockets, and provide improved targeting capability for counterbattery fire. The AN/TPQ-47 will detect tactical ballistic missiles at ranges out to 300 kilometers. The upgrade integrates with the Advanced Field Artillery Tactical Data System (AFATDS) software to ensure rapid counterfire.

The AN/TPQ-47 is designed to deliver superior transportability and mobility. It can be transported in a single C-130 sortie or by CH-47 helicopter lift. Rapid emplacement and displacement can be accomplished by a six-person crew.

The AN/TPQ-47 Firefinder's modular field-repairable design minimizes down time to maintain high system operational availability. An auto calibration algorithm allows the antenna to be recalibrated in the field.

The Q-47 provides a substantial increase in range and accuracy over the Q-37. Like the Q-37, the Q-47 is optimized for rockets and cannons. The probability of locating an enemy system in normal mode is .85 or higher throughout the entire range fan for a specific target category. The Q-47 can locate light and heavy mortars at ranges out to 18km and heavy mortars out to 30km with the same probability of location. It locates artillery and light rockets out to 60km and heavy rockets out to 100km. General planning ranges are 18km for mortars, 60km for artillery and light rockets and 100km for heavy rockets.

This new system differs from the AN/TPQ 37 by being more easily transported (fits in a C-130) and being more resistant to direction finding and anti-radiation missiles. What this means is that this gadget shoots a huge and powerful radar beam into the sky, and reasonably simple machinery can figure out where it is from it's radar emission and Viet Nam era missile technology can then take it out.

Pretty soon enough the sky from five feet up will be full of awfully smart pilotless aircraft. Ten years, maybe. You stick out, you dead.

Personally I think that counter artillery radar systems will not be useful for very long.

Radio, radar, and even electrical generators and vehicle electrics can be readily localized these days. From orbit you can pick up a wrist watch chip. (Or a submarine hundreds of feet down.) A cell phone is like a searchlight at night used to be.

Future war, my lifetime and yours, will be like World War Two submarines trying to stay alive - run silent, run deep. Hide. Every sensor will either be passive or protected like heck.

The Indians are buying AN/TPQ-37 sets from us. Times keep changing.

8 posted on 08/26/2005 11:58:52 PM PDT by Iris7 ("A pig's gotta fly." - Porco Rosso)
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To: snippy_about_it
Don't get me wrong about that "from orbit" stuff. Machines in near earth orbit are trivial to destroy. The Navy put together a simple system launched from a F-15 twenty years ago that should work just fine for a long time to come.

On the other hand, there are ways, there are always ways.

Shuttle has to go. Sooner the better. No time to waste on such junk. There are things that need doing.

9 posted on 08/27/2005 12:07:11 AM PDT by Iris7 ("A pig's gotta fly." - Porco Rosso)
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf

Good morning Snippy, Sam and eveyrone at the Foxhole.


10 posted on 08/27/2005 3:01:51 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: snippy_about_it; All

Good Texas Saturday mornin' to you and all. A big thanks to our military and to our country.

We are off to Crawford in a couple of hours to join in with the vast majority of Americans who support this great nation and our President.


11 posted on 08/27/2005 4:18:41 AM PDT by texianyankee
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To: snippy_about_it

On This Day In History



Birthdates which occurred on August 27:
0551 BC Confucius Chinese philosopher
1770 Georg Wilhelm F Hegel German philosopher/inventor (dialectic) (Hegel to Marx to Hitler,Stalin)
1809 Hannibal Hamlin (R) 15th VP (1861-65)
1824 Hiram Gregory Berry Major General (Union volunteers), died in 1863
1826 Frank Stillman Nickerson Brig General (Union volunteers)
1832 James Alexander Walker Brig General (Confederate Army), died in 1901
1839 Emory Upton Bvt Major General (Union Army), died in 1881
1865 Charles Gates Dawes (R) 30th VP (1925-29, Nobel 1925)
1882 Samuel Goldwyn pioneer film maker/producer (MGM)
1886 Eric Coates Hucknall, Nottinghamshire, England, composer
1877 Charles Stewart Rolls British auto manufacturer (Rolls-Royce Ltd)
1899 C.S. Forester, England, historical novelist, created Horatio Hornblower
1890 Man Ray US artist/photographer/movie (dada)
1908 Lyndon B Johnson (D) 36th Pres (1963-1969)
1908 Martha Raye [Margaret Reed], Butte Mont, actress / Viet-Nam vet (Martha Raye Show)

1910 Mother Teresa [Agnes Gonxha Bojaxhiu], Yugoslavia (Nobel 1979)

1915 Walter W Heller economist (Old Myths & New Realities)
1929 Elizabeta Bagrintseve USSR, discus thrower (Olympic-silver-1952)
1929 Ira Levin author (Rosemary's Baby, Boys From Brazil)
1932 Antonia Fraser biographer (Mary Queen of Scots)
1935 Frank Yablans NYC, writer (North Dallas Forty)
1937 Tommy Sands singer/actor (Teenage Rock, Dream With Me)
1941 Yuri V Malyshev cosmonaut (Soyuz T-2, T-11)
1942 Daryl Dragon Pasadena Calif, keyboardist (Capt & Tennille)
1943 Bob Kerrey (ex-Sen-D Nebraska)
1943 Susan "Tuesday" Weld NYC, actress (Dobie Gillis, Wild in Country)
1949 Barbara Bach [Goldbach], Queens NY, actress (Spy Who Loved Me)
1950 Charles Fleischer Wash DC, comedian (Roger Rabbit)
1952 Pee-wee Herman aka Paul Reubens, actor / movie lover (Pee-wee's Big Adventure)
1961 "Downtown" Julie Brown TV host (Club MTV, Inside Edition)



Deaths which occurred on August 27:
1576 Titan (Tiziano Vecelli) Italian artist, dies (plague)
1590 Sixtus V [Felice Peretti/"Montalto"], Pope (1585-90), dies at 68
1840 William Kneass 3rd US chief engraver (1824-40), dies in office
1879 Sir Rowland Hill introduced postage stamps, dies at 84
1958 Dr Ernest O Lawrence inventor (Cyclotron-Nobel 1939), dies at 57
1963 W E B Du Bois scholar/founder (NAACP), dies at 95 in Accra Ghana
1964 Gracie Allen (Burns and Allen)
1967 Brian Epstein Beatles' manager, dies
1971 Bennett Cerf (Random House)/panelist (What's My Line), dies at 73
1975 Haile Selassie depossed Ethiopian emperor, dies at 83
1978 Robert Shaw actor (Quint - Jaws), dies at 51
1979 Earl Mountbatten British adm of the Fleet, assassinated by IRA
1979 Nicholas Mountbatten, Lord Mountbatten's grandson, murdered at 14
1979 Lady Brabourne murdered age 83
1979 John Maxwell murdered age 15
1980 Sam Levenson humorist (Sam Levenson Show), dies at 68
1984 Billy Sands actor (Phil Silvers Show, McHale's Navy), dies at 73
1990 Stevie Ray Vaughan blues guitarist, dies in a helicopter crash at 35
1996 Actor Greg Morris ("Mission: Impossible") dies


Take A Moment To Remember
GWOT Casualties

Iraq
27-Aug-2003 4 | US: 3 | UK: 1 | Other: 0
UK Fusilier Russell Beeston Ali As Sharqi Hostile - hostile fire
US Lieutenant Colonel Anthony L. Sherman Camp Arifjan Non-hostile - illness
US Sergeant Gregory A. Belanger Baghdad Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack
US Specialist Rafael L. Navea Fallujah - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack

27-Aug-2004 3 | US: 3 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
US Lance Corporal Nickalous N. Aldrich Al Anbar Province Non-hostile - vehicle accident
US Specialist Omead H. Razani Habbaniyah - Anbar Non-hostile - unspecified cause
US Private 1st Class Luis A. Perez Fallujah (near) - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack



Afghanistan
A GOOD DAY


http://icasualties.org/oif/
Data research by Pat Kneisler
Designed and maintained by Michael White
//////////
Go here and I'll stop nagging.
http://www.taps.org/
(subtle hint SEND MONEY)


On this day...
0479 BC. Battle at Plataeae: Greece attack Persians
0413 BC. Eclipse of the moon causes panic on Athens fleet.
1172, Marguerite, wife of Henry Plantagenet, "the Young King," crowned Queen of England
1626 The Danes are crushed by the Catholic League in Germany, marking the end of Danish intervention in European wars.
1667 Earliest recorded hurricane in US (Jamestown Virginia)
1776 British defeat Americans in Battle of Long Island
1783 1st hydrogen balloon flight (unmanned); reaches 900 m altitude
1789 French Natl Assembly issues "Decl of the Rights of Man & the Citizen"
1793 Maximilien Robespierre is elected to the Committee of Public Safety in Paris, France.
1832 Black Hawk, leader of Sauk-Indians surrenders

1859 1st successful oil well drilled, near Titusville, Penn

1861 Battle of Cape Hatteras SC-Union troops take Ft Clark
1862 Battle of Cub Run, VA
1862 Stonewall Jackson captures and plunders Union supply depot at Manassas Junction, Virginia
1883 Krakatoa, west of Java, explodes with a force of 1,300 megatons
1894 Congress passed the Wilson-Gorman Tariff Act, which contained a provision for a graduated income tax that was later struck down by the Supreme Court.
1900 U.S. Army physician James Carroll, Havana, Cuba, allowed an infected mosquito to feed on him in an attempt to isolate the means of transmission of yellow fever. Days later, Carroll developed a severe case of yellow fever, helping his colleague, Army Walter Reed, prove that mosquitoes can transmit the sometimes deadly disease.
1896 Zanzibar loses to England in a 38 minute war (9:02 AM-9:40 AM)
1912 Edgar Rice Burroughs' publishes Tarzan
1913 Lt Peter Nestrov, of Imperial Russian Air Service, performs a loop in a monoplane at Kiev (1st aerobatic maneuver in an airplane)
1921 J E Clair of Acme Packing Co of Green Bay granted an NFL franchise
1927 Parks College, America's oldest aviation school, opens
1928 16 die in a NYC subway's 2nd worst accident
1928 Kellogg-Briand Pact, where 60 nations agree to outlaw war (Well THAT worked out real well...there hasn't been one single war since....incursions, police actions, misunderstandings, tiffs, spats, disputes, conflicts since 1928 to be sure, but no wars.)
1937 George E.T. Eyston sets world auto speed record at 345.49 MPH
1939 Erich Warsitz makes 1st jet-propelled flight (in a Heinkel He-178)
1939 Nazi Germany demands Danzig & Polish corridor
1940 Caproni-Campini CC-2, experimental jet plane, maiden flight (Milan)
1941 Shah of Iran abdicates throne to his son Reza Pahlawi
1942 Cuba declares war on Germany, Japan and Italy
1945 US troops land in Japan after Japanese surrender
1945 B-29 Superfortress bombers begin to drop supplies into Allied prisoner of war camps in China.
1950 General Foods blacklists Jean Muir of Aldrich Family as a communist
1955 "Guinness Book of World Records" 1st published
1961 Francis the Talking Mule is the mystery guest on "What's My Line"
1962 Mariner 2 launched; 1st probe to fly by Venus
1965 Bob Dylan booed off stage in NY's Forest Hills (used an electric guitar)
1966 Francis Chichester begins the 1st solo sail around the world
1966 Race riot in Waukegan Illinois
1972 US bombs Haiphong North Vietnam (About time!)
1974 NY Met Benny Ayala hits a home run in his 1st at bat
1975 Veronica & Colin Scargill (England) complete tandem bicycle ride, a record 18,020 miles around the world
1976 Transsexual Renee Richards barred from competing in US Tennis Open
1977 Toby Harrah & Bump Wills hit back-to-back inside-the-park-homers off Yankee Ken Clay at Yankee Stadium, Rangers won 8-2
1978 Reds Joe Morgan is 1st to hit 200 HRs & have 500 stolen bases
1981 Divers begin to recover a safe found aboard the Andrea Doria
1982 Rickey Henderson steals 119th base of season breaks Lou Brock's mark
1982 Soyuz T-7 returns to Earth
1985 20th Space Shuttle Mission (51-I)-Discovery 6-launched
1989 100 march through Bensonhurst protesting racial killings
1989 Chuck Berry plays Johnny B. Goode for NASA staff in celebration of Voyager II's encounter with the planet Neptune.
1990 WWF Summer Slam-Ultimate Warrior beats Rick Rude
1991 The Soviet republic of Moldavia declared its independence. And the European Community recognized Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania as independent nations
1996, California Gov. Pete Wilson signed an executive order aimed at halting state benefits to illegal immigrants.
1997 Former Agriculture Secretary Mike Espy was charged with seeking and accepting more than $35,000 dollars in trips, sports tickets and favors from companies that did business with his agency. A jury found Espy innocent in 1998 of taking illegal gifts, but eight others pleaded guilty or were convicted of various charges; President Clinton later issued seven pardons and a commutation
2000 Fighting breaks out between Iranian students and hard-liners in Khorramabad left a police officer
2001 The Bush administration confirmed that Sec. of State Colin Powell would not attend the UN conference on racism in Durban, South Africa. (And so missed a golden opportunity to listen to world leaders tell him just what a horrible place America is, and why America should give them more money. World leaders debate weather America or Israel is the worst nation on earth. Some point out that Israel is given their rampant wholesale slaughter of Palestinians (A good point to be sure), BUT OTOH it is pointed out that America supports and defends Israel and so deserves the title of the most horrible oppressive nation on the planet. However the Iranian delegate (in a stunning comeback) says that it's a given that the Jews control the world and so Israel should be considered the most horrible nation on earth. The conference ends on an upbeat note with a unanimous statement that something needs to be done and America should give them more money & Israelis should lineup quietly to be killed.)
2001 Intel unveils a 2-GHz Pentium 4 chip
2003 American and Afghan forces kill about a dozen terrorist and recaptured a mountain pass in southeastern Afghanistan
2003 Mars comes within 34,646,437 miles of Earth, its closest in the past 60 millennia (DUCK!)


Holidays
Note: Some Holidays are only applicable on a given "day of the week"

Gibralter : Late Summer Bank Holiday
Hong Kong : Liberation Day (1945) ( Monday )
Just Because Day
National Golf Month


Religious Observances
RC : Memorial of St Monica, mother of St Augustine of Hippo
Old RC : Feast of St Joseph Calasanctius, confessor
Christian Feast of St Poemen
Christian Feast of St Marcellus of Tomi
Christian Feast of St David Lewis Little
Christian Feast of St Margaret & barefooted
Christian Feast of St Hugh
RC Ebbo, archbishop of Sens
RC Feast of St Caesarius, archbishop of Arles
RC Gebhard II, bishop of Konstanz/patron saint of Vorarlberg


Religious History
1660 Following England's Restoration, books by poet John Milton were ordered burned because of his attacks on the monarchy. Milton had advocated an elder-ruled (presbyterian) church government over that of bishop-ruled (episcopal).
1830 English churchman John Henry Cardinal Newman wrote in a letter: 'It is our great relief that God is not extreme to mark what is done amiss, that He looks at the motives, and accepts and blesses in spite of incidental errors.'
1865 Rhenish missionary Ludwig I. Nommensen, 31, baptized four families of the Batak tribe in North Sumatra (Indonesia) the first to be converted to the Christian faith. Nommensen later established a theological training school and in 1878 completed a translation of the New Testament into the Batak language.
1876 At age 13, future English clergyman G. Campbell Morgan preached his first sermon. He later grew to become one of the most famous expository preachers and writers of late 19th century England and America.
1877 Birth of Lloyd C. Douglas, American Lutheran clergyman and religious novelist. Douglas published his first best-seller, "Magnificent Obsession," in 1929, followed later by "The Robe" (1942) and "The Big Fisherman" (1948).

Source: William D. Blake. ALMANAC OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH. Minneapolis: Bethany House, 1987.



Need Sleep? Mall Of America Sells Naps For 70 Cents A Minute

BLOOMINGTON, Minn. -- The Mall of America has a 74-foot Ferris wheel, a shark tank and a dinosaur museum. And now, if all that tires you out, a nap store will sell you some shuteye for 70 cents a minute.

The new store will be called MinneNAPolis. It's just the thing for shoppers -- or their spouses -- who get worn out traversing the more than four miles of storefronts in the Minnesota mall.

Founded by PowerNap Sleep Centers of Boca Raton, Fla., the new store will include at least three themed rooms: Asian Mist, Tropical Isle and Deep Space. Each will have walls thick enough to drown out the sounds of squealing children at the indoor amusement park.

The fee of 70 cents per minute works out to $42 an hour. Some said it would be cheaper to buy an $8 movie ticket and spend two hours sleeping through a movie.


Thought for the day :
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and say the opposite."
Sam Levenson


12 posted on 08/27/2005 6:26:05 AM PDT by Valin (The right to do something does not mean that doing it is right.)
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To: alfa6; Don W

We're still left with the problem of hooking up the towed pieces before moving to a different location.
The major advantage to towed artillery is it's cheap..in comparison the SPs.


13 posted on 08/27/2005 6:34:03 AM PDT by Valin (The right to do something does not mean that doing it is right.)
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To: snippy_about_it; bentfeather; Samwise; Peanut Gallery; Wneighbor
Good morning ladies. Flag-o-Gram.


14 posted on 08/27/2005 7:07:16 AM PDT by Professional Engineer (As an Engineer, you too can learn to calculate the power of the Dark Side.)
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To: snippy_about_it

I like to be self-propelled. I hate bumming rides from other folks.


15 posted on 08/27/2005 7:12:28 AM PDT by Professional Engineer (As an Engineer, you too can learn to calculate the power of the Dark Side.)
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To: Valin
1942 Daryl Dragon Pasadena Calif, keyboardist (Capt & Tennille)


16 posted on 08/27/2005 7:26:12 AM PDT by Professional Engineer (As an Engineer, you too can learn to calculate the power of the Dark Side.)
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf; All


August 27, 2005

Roughed Up To Grow Up

Read:
Hebrews 12:1-11

Do not despise the chastening of the Lord, nor detest His correction. —Proverbs 3:11

Bible In One Year: 1 Chronicles 17-19

cover Many Christians have to be lovingly roughed up before they will grow up. Although the heavenly Father never allows His children to suffer needlessly, sometimes He lets them experience hard knocks so they'll become mature believers.

The need for "bad weather" to stimulate growth can be seen in nature. Scientists say that the seeds of some desert bushes must be damaged by a storm before they will germinate. They are covered with hard shells that keep out water. This allows them to lie dormant on the sand for several seasons until conditions are right for growth.

When heavy rains finally come, the little seeds are carried away in a flash flood. They are banged against sand, gravel, and rocks as they rush down the slopes. Eventually they settle in a depression where the soil has become damp to a depth of several feet. Only then do they begin to grow, for moisture is absorbed through the nicks and scratches they picked up on their downhill plunge.

Similarly, difficulties may be needed to wake up a sleeping saint. This may hurt for a while, but if we yield to the Lord we will find that life's bruises can mark the beginning of spiritual advances. We may prefer to remain "seeds," but He wants us to become "fruitful trees." —Mart De Haan

Should Thy mercy send me sorrow, toil, and woe,
Or should pain attend me on my path below,
Grant that I may never fail Thy hand to see,
Grant that I may ever cast my care on Thee. —Montgomery

There are no gains without pains.

FOR FURTHER STUDY
Knowing God Through Proverbs

17 posted on 08/27/2005 8:00:27 AM PDT by The Mayor ( Pray as if everything depends on God; work as if everything depends on you.)
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To: Professional Engineer; SAMWolf; snippy_about_it; Valin; The Mayor; Wneighbor; alfa6; PhilDragoo; ...

Good morning everyone.

18 posted on 08/27/2005 9:09:11 AM PDT by Soaring Feather (Two Years of Poetry...)
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To: snippy_about_it
Good topic; the issue is still being wrestled with in the U.S. Army.

A couple comments on the article--the M110 8" howitzer was taken out of service over 10 years ago; and the 17 km range ascribed to the Brit 105mm has been surpassed by the 19km (rocket assisted projectile)range for the M119 105mm towed howitzer in service with the airborne, air assault, and light infantry forces of the U.S. Army.

Mobility is brought up in the debate, but mobility is a relative concept. 105mm towed Arty is lighter and can be air-lifted via C130 cargo planes and slingloaded via CH47 or US60 helicopters or airdropped using parachutes. It can therefore go long distances much quicker than SP howitzers. By virtue of its air-transportability, it can also be emplaced on mountain-tops or in jungle clearings or across rivers or other terrain where SP arty cannot go. On the ground it is towed by a HMMWV and the smaller size round makes it easier to keep supplied.

The Army wants to keep those advantages, but gain the range and lethality associated with 155mm howitzers. Currently they are trying to develop a 155mm towed howitzer using light weight materials that can be lifted using a UH-60 and towed by a HMMWV, but still has the 155mm reach and family of ammunition.

SP Arty in the U.S. Army is all 155mm now. The upcoming doctrine is to capitalize on GPS technology and on-board fire direction computing to enable dispersed, individual howitzers to achieve first round hits on specific targets. Quite a change from the days of 6 gun batteries and battalion volleys firing salvos at the same target under the idea that if enough rounds are fired, somebody will hit the target! The arty improvements in accuracy and round lethality has resulted in significantly less artillery built into the design of future Army formations.

Bottom line: we still need a mixture of both.

19 posted on 08/27/2005 10:05:26 AM PDT by mark502inf
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To: bentfeather

Bittygirl is running around the house singing the praises of da-du, da-du (daddy). I keep waiting for her to say da-du, da-du, shazbot.


20 posted on 08/27/2005 10:06:36 AM PDT by Professional Engineer (As an Engineer, you too can learn to calculate the power of the Dark Side.)
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