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Posted on 11/08/2004 11:34:58 PM PST by SAMWolf
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 are acknowledged, affirmed and commemorated.
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| Our Mission: The FReeper Foxhole is dedicated to Veterans of our Nation's military forces and to others who are affected in their relationships with Veterans. In the FReeper Foxhole, Veterans or their family members should feel free to address their specific circumstances or whatever issues concern them in an atmosphere of peace, understanding, brotherhood and support. The FReeper Foxhole hopes to share with it's readers an open forum where we can learn about and discuss military history, military news and other topics of concern or interest to our readers be they Veteran's, Current Duty or anyone interested in what we have to offer. If the Foxhole makes someone appreciate, even a little, what others have sacrificed for us, then it has accomplished one of it's missions. We hope the Foxhole in some small way helps us to remember and honor those who came before us.
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 After the First World War many military minds considered the problem of avoiding another trench stalemate. One proposed solution was for every infantryman to have his own bullet-proof personal cross country vehicle. In 1925 Major (later Lt.Gen) Le Q Martel built such a machine at his own expense and offered it to the War Deparment. The War Dept was sufficiently interested to commision Morris Motors to build four more such vehicles, one of them a two-seater. Interest in the Morris-Martel tankettes also drew attention to a similar one man vehicle built by Carden-Loyd Tractors.  Carden-Loyd Mark II One Man Tankette Trials soon established that the one man designs were not particularly practical, since most crewmen could not effectively shoot and drive at the same time. Eight two-man prototypes of both makes of tankette were attached to the Experimental Mechanised Force, with the intention of testing them as Scout vehicles. The Two-man Carden-Loyd Mk VI was adopted for service in 1928. Intended tactical role had once again changed, and the vehicle was now intended to be a machine gun carrier.  Carden-Loyd Two Man Tankette The Carden-Loyd Tankette was one of the great success stories of the interwar years. It weighed less than 2 tons and was reasonably relieable. More importantly, it was very cheap to produce, and important consideration in the lean financial climate of the 20s and 30s. Many other nations brought Carden-Loyd tankettes, and some were used as the basis for various light tank designs. In British service it was mainly intended to carry machine guns or mortars, and it was soon realised that the combat capability of these tiny vehicles was rather modest.  Carden-Loyd Mark V Two Man Tankette As a result most vehicles were used more and more in a utility role. The increasing mechanization of the British army and diversification of vehicle applications meant that a more versatile and more capable vehicle than the tankette was needed. Vickers-Armstrong Ltd had absorbed Carden-Loyd prior to the adoption of the Mk VI so offered the VA D50 as a replacement in 1934. This vehicle was intended to act as an anti-tank or field gun tractor or a machine gun carrier. Fold down seating in the rear allowed a gun crew or dismount machine gun team to be carried in addition to the two man vehicle crew.  Carden-Loyd Mark IV Two Man Tankette The VA D50 underwent various modifications and name changes, including the adoption of the new Bren Gun in place of the Vickers MMG. In 1938 it was adopted for service in three variants, a fourth being added in 1939. The idea was never put to the test and so the inter-war years were that of "what will happen next?". Some ideas were good, much was fantasy - as was this idea.  Morris-Martel One Man Tankette A theory was put forward by the great French tank enthusiast General Estienne, who helped design France's first tank and a proponent of the light tank, of the idea of skirmishers armed with light tanks rushing an enemy position. The idea was that the massive onslaught by a high speed, protected group of soldiers would be unstoppable in action. Col. (Later Major General) J.F.C. Fuller revived the idea after WW1 and a debate began. Major (later Lt. General) Sir Gifford Le. Q. Martel undertook the idea and in 1925 built the tankette shown above in his garage. The engine came from a Maxwell and the axel came from a Ford truck. The tracks came from the Roadless Traction Company. The body was made from wood. After a demonstration to the War Office, authorization was obtained for Morris Commercial Motors to build 4 test models. The first was delivered in 1926. In 1927 eight more machines were ordered and were to be used as scout machines of a new experimental force being formed. The idea was dropped shortly after that period as it was found that a single man had difficulty operating these machines and firing a weapon at the same time. One machine was tested with a single rear tire for steering.  Morris-Martel Two Man Tankette More of the same here! This was an idea to squeeze all the possibilities out of the design. Basically this was better than the first unit as far as human (ergonomics) conditions go. Here, Crossley gets in on the idea. During 1927 the Martel idea was tried at Crossley with a few orginal ideas. A Citroen-Kegresse was fitted as was rubber tracks.  Carden-Loyd One Man Tankette Publicity caused the Carden-Loyd Tractors LTD firm to get involved. This vehicle, built at Kensington in 1925 was presented to the War Office. The War Office then ordered one test vehicle built. Although it is not properly speaking a tank of World War II, the tankettes Carden-Loyd must be evoked, because they had a major influence on the design of light tanks between both World Wars and their descendants were the most numerous machines in the armored forces of most nations in 1939.  Carden-Loyd Mark I, Mark I* (Star) One Man Tankette It all started in 1925 when Major Martel, of the British Army, built and exhibited a one-man tankette. Made of cheap commercial components, it was fast and many could be procured for the price of a single tank. Heartened by the publicity received by this prototype, the "Carden-Loyd Tractor Company" proposed to the War Office its own version of a one-man tankette, which was accepted. One of the most famous vehicles in the history of armor, and the father of an entire generation of armor worldwide. Purchased throughout the world, reproduced, copied, studied, this vehicle gave spawn to a host of ideas, and a false sense of safety and power to many nations who relied on these vehicles in WW2. Great Britain was one of the few nations to more properly see the role of this light vehicle. Nations that used, copied, and varied on this design (with and without license) were: France (UE series), Italy (CV series), USSR (T27), Poland (TK series), Czechoslovakia (MU4). Dozens more nations simply had Carden-Loyd manufacture the vehicle to their own specifications.  Carden-Loyd Mark VI Two Man Tankette The version Mark VI is the most successful of the Carden-Lyod tankettes. In the British army itself, it was the forbear of most light tanks built before the war. The fact that these descendants did not bear the name "Carden-Lyod" had all to do with the taking over of that company by Vickers-Armstrong.
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We wouldn't mistake you for a whiner. I sure hope nothing really bad happened.
Yeah, the US Army got that one right.
Blitzkrieg, American 21st Century style.
Evening AC.
Victoria always finds the good political cartoons.
Thanks Jet Jaguar.
How are things here at the Foxhole? I have to run for tonight -- it's after 1 AM here, and I've just finished editing a report that I have to submit to a client tomorrow. I'll be home early tomorrow evening, so I'll check in when I get home!
Getting hectic, time seems to be short both for doing threads and for hanging around and talking to folks. :-(
Yes, I hear ya. I think I'm going to be changing the way I "do business" here on FR. I get so many pings that I can't answer them all every day, so I think I'm just going to start blocking out one evening a week to check in on all these.
These Foxhole threads are fantastic. You ought to compile them into an on-line military "encyclopedia" of sorts.
Gotta hit the sack now -- see you tomorrow night for a while!
http://www.opw.kgb.pl/czolgi/wiesel.html
http://koalorka.terramail.pl/wiesel.htm
http://www.mt.com.pl/num/4_98/wiesel.htm
Hiya ct. Thanks for the link.
Hey, we're kinda cute in there!
So 'johnny' did you see the pics I pinged you to of our store so far?
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I wouldn't mind having one of this version in my garage. :-)
LOL. I wish it were that easy!
Good night. Good luck with your client tomorrow.
The work on high-speed rifle ammunition began in Poland in late 20's - early 30's. After the completion, work began on a suitable rifle. The winning design, kb ppanc wz. 1935 (rifle, anti-tank model 1935) was designed by Jozef Maroszek in early 1930's. There are no exact data on when the work began or how it progressed since from the beginning the rifle and ammunition were classified. The kb wz. 1935 was adopted in November 1935 and 7610 rifles were ordered in Fabryka Karabinow (Rifle Factory) in Warsaw. The exact number made before the outbreak of W.W.II is unknown but the highest receiver serial numbers of surviving specimens are in 6500 range.
In the beginning, the rifles were stored at central storage facilities. The delivery to the army units started in April 1939; the last rifles were delivered to units as late as in August 1939. The orders specified that the crate containing the rifle must not be opened before the start of hostilities. The weapon itself was demonstrated only to a handful of soldiers under oath.
Kb ppanc wz. 1935 is a bolt-action repeater. The action is a simplified Mauser action similar to that used in KP 32; one of Maroszek's earlier designs. It is fed by a four-round detachable box magazine held in place by two magazine catches (one in front and one behind the magazine). The barrel is screwed in into the receiver and is threaded at the muzzle to accept the necessary muzzle brake (it consumed around 65% of the recoil). According to the manual, the barrel life was around 200-300 rounds, after which it should be changed. The wooden stock is equipped with two sling swivels: one behind the pistol grip and one attached to the barrel band. A bipod is mounted to the barrel just in front the stock. The sights are fixed and set at 300 meters: open rear on the forward part of the receiver and front attached to the muzzle brake.
The rifle was delivered in a wooden crate, which contained the rifle, itself, 3 spare barrels, 3 spare magazines, ammunition (32 rounds), barrel key, and a manual.
The rifle used 7.92 x 107 mm DS ammunition. Weighting 64.25 g (2.25 oz), the cartridge contained 11.15 g (172 grains) of propellant and was topped by a 14.579 g (225 grains) bullet. The ammunition was made by " P.W.U. Panswowa Fabryka Amunicji" in Skarzysko Kamienne. The rounds were packed in cardboard boxed (12 rounds) which, in turn, were packed in hermetically closed cans. Cans were packed into wooden crates. From 300 meters the bullet could penetrate a 15 mm (0.6 ") steel plate mounted at 30-degree angle and still retain sufficient energy to penetrate a 4 cm (1.6 ") wooden board. Additionally the bullet would punch out a 20 mm secondary projectile from the armor adding to the destructive effect. At 100 meters the bullet would penetrate around 33 mm (1.3 ") of armor. This means that at a range of 100 m, a bullet fired from kb ppanc wz. 1935 could destroy or damage any German or Soviet tank used in the aggression against Poland. Other armored vehicles could be destroyed from even greater distance. Contrary to the popular belief, the weapon was widely used by Polish infantry and cavalry.
The primary user of the kb wz. 1935 was the Polish army. After the fall of Poland, a significant number of these rifles fell into German hands. Designated Panzer Büchse 35 (polnisch) or PzB 35(p) they were used up to late 1940. Later, some of weapons were sold to the Italian army which called it Fucile Contracarro 35(P).
The rifle is also known as "Urugwaj" (or kb UR) which suggests that it was "camouflaged" in the paperworks as an rifle for export to Uruguay.
When I got to Viet Nam the 23rd Psalm, the King James version, is what I turned to.
I prefer the Lord's Prayer these days, but for sure the Lord is my shepard. When I wander off he leaves the rest of the flock long enough to go and find me, with persistance and, yes, love. And carries me home. And more than once, I am surely a bad servant.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life, and I shall dwell in the house of the Lord forever.
1967 SIJAN LANCE P.---MILWAUKEE WI.
03/17/74 REMAINS RETURNED]
"Rank and organization: Captain, U.S. Air Force, 4th Allied POW Wing, Pilot of an F-4C aircraft. Place and Date: North Vietnam, 9 November 1967. Entered service at: Milwaukee, Wis. Born: 13 April 1942, Milwaukee, Wis.
Citation:
While on a flight over North Vietnam, Capt. Sijan ejected from his disabled aircraft and successfully evaded capture for more than 6 weeks. During this time, he was seriously injured and suffered from shock and extreme weight loss due to lack of food. After being captured by North Vietnamese soldiers, Capt. Sijan was taken to a holding point for subsequent transfer to a prisoner of war camp. In his emaciated and crippled condition, he overpowered 1 of his guards and crawled into the jungle, only to be recaptured after several hours. He was then transferred to another prison camp where he was kept in solitary confinement and interrogated at length. During interrogation, he was severely tortured; however, he did not divulge any information to his captors. Capt. Sijan lapsed into delirium and was placed in the care of another prisoner. During his intermittent periods of consciousness until his death, he never complained of his physical condition and, on several occasions, spoke of future escape attempts. Capt. Sijan's extraordinary heroism and intrepidity above and beyond the call of duty at the cost of his life are in keeping with the highest traditions of the U.S. Air Force and reflect great credit upon himself and the U.S. Armed Forces."
The Medal of Honor, folks. What a shame to loose such a good man.
I put Sijan's Medal citation in before seeing yours. Should read before posting.
Shame to lose a guy like Lance Sijan.
BTTT!!!!!!
I think you are talking about the SPAT "Self Propelled Anti Tank" gun. It had vertually no armor but it could move very fast. When you fired that 90mm, it seemed to jump 10 feet in the air due to the recoil. It was designed to give the airborne an anti tank capability.
As far as the 106mm on the Ontos, I always felt like they could have designed a over caliber missle that you loaded from the front with the launch charge being in the tube and a substainer motor being on the missle itself. Of course you would have a guidance system in the missle section. If you didn't want to fire a $1,000,000.00 missle at a $10.00 bunker you could always use the conventional 106mm round.
The concept with the front loading over caliber warhead with a substaining rocket motor and explusion charge in the tube is in use today in a smaller form. It is called the RPG 7. The RPG is actually a recoiless tube launched rocket when you want to get techical. Its fore runner the RPG 2 only had the explusion charge and no rocket assist. For some reason with the name RPG everybody always called them rocket propelled grenades. The idea was gotten from the German panzerfaust. However the first use of an overcaliber round like this was employed by the Germans on their 37mm anti tank gun. They made a large shaped charge round that simply slid over the barrel of the 37mm anti tank gun and used something simular to a blank charge to launch it. The main anti tank gun of the German army when then went into Russia was the 37mm which becamed known as the "Door Kocker". The only use it had against the KV1 and T34 was to band against the side of the tank and let the crew know someone was out there. With the use of the over caliber round, they could kill those tanks but the tank had to be probably less than 50 yards or so away and the rate of fire was very slow.
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