The FReeper Foxhole's TreadHead Tuesday - Tankettes (Part I) - Britain and Poland - Nov. 9th, 2004

mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk ^

[SAMWolf]

Lord,

Keep our Troops forever in Your care

Give them victory over the enemy...

Grant them a safe and swift return...

Bless those who mourn the lost.
.

FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer
for all those serving their country at this time.

...................................................................................... ...........................................

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British Tankettes

After the First World War many military minds considered the problem of avoiding another trench stalemate. One proposed solution was for every infantryman to have his own bullet-proof personal cross country vehicle. In 1925 Major (later Lt.Gen) Le Q Martel built such a machine at his own expense and offered it to the War Deparment. The War Dept was sufficiently interested to commision Morris Motors to build four more such vehicles, one of them a two-seater. Interest in the Morris-Martel tankettes also drew attention to a similar one man vehicle built by Carden-Loyd Tractors.


Carden-Loyd Mark II One Man Tankette

Trials soon established that the one man designs were not particularly practical, since most crewmen could not effectively shoot and drive at the same time. Eight two-man prototypes of both makes of tankette were attached to the Experimental Mechanised Force, with the intention of testing them as Scout vehicles. The Two-man Carden-Loyd Mk VI was adopted for service in 1928. Intended tactical role had once again changed, and the vehicle was now intended to be a machine gun carrier.


Carden-Loyd Two Man Tankette

The Carden-Loyd Tankette was one of the great success stories of the interwar years. It weighed less than 2 tons and was reasonably relieable. More importantly, it was very cheap to produce, and important consideration in the lean financial climate of the 20s and 30s. Many other nations brought Carden-Loyd tankettes, and some were used as the basis for various light tank designs. In British service it was mainly intended to carry machine guns or mortars, and it was soon realised that the combat capability of these tiny vehicles was rather modest.


Carden-Loyd Mark V Two Man Tankette

As a result most vehicles were used more and more in a utility role. The increasing mechanization of the British army and diversification of vehicle applications meant that a more versatile and more capable vehicle than the tankette was needed. Vickers-Armstrong Ltd had absorbed Carden-Loyd prior to the adoption of the Mk VI so offered the VA D50 as a replacement in 1934. This vehicle was intended to act as an anti-tank or field gun tractor or a machine gun carrier. Fold down seating in the rear allowed a gun crew or dismount machine gun team to be carried in addition to the two man vehicle crew.


Carden-Loyd Mark IV Two Man Tankette

The VA D50 underwent various modifications and name changes, including the adoption of the new Bren Gun in place of the Vickers MMG. In 1938 it was adopted for service in three variants, a fourth being added in 1939.

Martel, Morris-Martel One Man Tankette

The idea was never put to the test and so the inter-war years were that of "what will happen next?". Some ideas were good, much was fantasy - as was this idea.


Morris-Martel One Man Tankette

A theory was put forward by the great French tank enthusiast General Estienne, who helped design France's first tank and a proponent of the light tank, of the idea of skirmishers armed with light tanks rushing an enemy position. The idea was that the massive onslaught by a high speed, protected group of soldiers would be unstoppable in action. Col. (Later Major General) J.F.C. Fuller revived the idea after WW1 and a debate began. Major (later Lt. General) Sir Gifford Le. Q. Martel undertook the idea and in 1925 built the tankette shown above in his garage. The engine came from a Maxwell and the axel came from a Ford truck. The tracks came from the Roadless Traction Company. The body was made from wood. After a demonstration to the War Office, authorization was obtained for Morris Commercial Motors to build 4 test models. The first was delivered in 1926. In 1927 eight more machines were ordered and were to be used as scout machines of a new experimental force being formed. The idea was dropped shortly after that period as it was found that a single man had difficulty operating these machines and firing a weapon at the same time. One machine was tested with a single rear tire for steering.

Morris-Martel Two Man Tankette


Morris-Martel Two Man Tankette

More of the same here! This was an idea to squeeze all the possibilities out of the design. Basically this was better than the first unit as far as human (ergonomics) conditions go.

Crossley-Martel One Man Tankette

Here, Crossley gets in on the idea. During 1927 the Martel idea was tried at Crossley with a few orginal ideas. A Citroen-Kegresse was fitted as was rubber tracks.

Carden-Loyd One Man Tankette


Carden-Loyd One Man Tankette

Publicity caused the Carden-Loyd Tractors LTD firm to get involved. This vehicle, built at Kensington in 1925 was presented to the War Office. The War Office then ordered one test vehicle built.

Carden-Loyd Mark I

Although it is not properly speaking a tank of World War II, the tankettes Carden-Loyd must be evoked, because they had a major influence on the design of light tanks between both World Wars and their descendants were the most numerous machines in the armored forces of most nations in 1939.


Carden-Loyd Mark I, Mark I* (Star) One Man Tankette

It all started in 1925 when Major Martel, of the British Army, built and exhibited a one-man tankette. Made of cheap commercial components, it was fast and many could be procured for the price of a single tank.

Heartened by the publicity received by this prototype, the "Carden-Loyd Tractor Company" proposed to the War Office its own version of a one-man tankette, which was accepted.

Carden-Loyd Mark VI Two Man Tankette

One of the most famous vehicles in the history of armor, and the father of an entire generation of armor worldwide. Purchased throughout the world, reproduced, copied, studied, this vehicle gave spawn to a host of ideas, and a false sense of safety and power to many nations who relied on these vehicles in WW2. Great Britain was one of the few nations to more properly see the role of this light vehicle. Nations that used, copied, and varied on this design (with and without license) were: France (UE series), Italy (CV series), USSR (T27), Poland (TK series), Czechoslovakia (MU4). Dozens more nations simply had Carden-Loyd manufacture the vehicle to their own specifications.


Carden-Loyd Mark VI Two Man Tankette

The version Mark VI is the most successful of the Carden-Lyod tankettes. In the British army itself, it was the forbear of most light tanks built before the war. The fact that these descendants did not bear the name "Carden-Lyod" had all to do with the taking over of that company by Vickers-Armstrong.

[SAMWolf]

Polish Tankettes

After the First World War, the nation of Poland was revived grouping together the territories occupied by Germany, Russia and Austria during the First, Second, and Third Partition of Poland. The Polish army soon came into being formed, for the most part, from a nucleus of Polish units that had been organized in France during the Great War. When units of the new Polish Army were sent to France for training with the French Army, an interest in armored vehicles naturally developed. One regiment of Renault FT tanks arrived in Poland in June 1919 and one of its battalions took part in the Russo-Polish War of 1919-20. This war took a quite different form from the former entrenched type of warfare, which had prevailed, on the Western Front during WW1. Poland dispatched mechanized forces, combining armored cars with motorized infantry and, truck drawn artillery. These units acted much out of their time and more as mechanized units do today - often engaged as deep raiding parties.

With a peace treaty Polish armored forces were reorganized along French lines. While the armored cars were given to the Cavalry, the tanks became part of the Infantry and were established into a tank regiment of three battalions.

Between 1923 and 1930, most of the activities of the Poles in the tank development field were concentrated on continuous attempts to improve the Renault FT tank. Some redesigns were to increase the performance to 13kmh. A small number of Renault FT tanks were rebuilt into specialized test variants including smoke producer tanks and radio command tanks.

Carden-Loyd Mark VI

In 1928 Vickers of Great Britain developed the two man "Vickers Carden-Loyd Mark VI tankette". This outstanding design attracted a great deal of attention worldwide. Poland purchased one unit and went on to produce a domestic version based on this model. Designated TK-1, the Polish tankette was a 1.75 ton, 2-man vehicle powered by a Ford motor. The TK-2 development led to the heavier TK-3, which was accepted as the production model. The TK-3 became the first armored tracklaying vehicle manufactured in quantity in Poland.

The year 1930 was marked by significant events in the Polish military. The infantry tank regiment, the cavalry armored squadrons, and the artillery armored trains, were combined into an independent branch of the service called the Bron Pancerna.

Polish TK3 used by Croatia 1942

The Bron Pancerna needed a more powerful armored vehicle. Poland to turned her attention to a further Vickers product - the Vickers Mark. Between 1930 to 1939, Vickers sold over 190 tanks that type to foreign countries such as Bolivia, Bulgaria, China, Finland, Greece, Japan, Portugal, Russia and Thailand. But, the largest order came from Poland with total of 50 (other sources state 38) tanks with the single and twin turret design.


A company of TKS tankettes prepare for a conterattack on the outskirts of Warsaw, 13 September 1939.

The Vickers design offered some potential for further development. The PZI design bureau was tasked with the study of making a homemade copy. PZI produced the 7-TP, a 9-ton twin turreted tank that was to be a considerable step forward in design over the Vickers original. At first the original engine of the Vickers was installed, but this was replaced by a license-built Saurer 6-cylinder diesel engine which developed 110hp. This made the Polish 7-TP the world's first diesel-powered tank to reach production status. The 7-TP's armor was also 4mm thicker than the Vickers originals. The first 7-TP to be built by PZI left the works in 1934. While the production of the modified twin turret model 7-TP was proceeding, it was decided to introduce a single version carrying a Bofors gun. This variant appeared in 1937, but the production was slowed by the difficulties of making armor plates and procuring the turrets from Sweden.


Tk-3 Pulling Ski Troops

The development of the tankette had been continued in Poland and, through progressive steps, the TK series was gradually improved. By 1933, the TK-3 had given rise to the TKS, a slightly heavier model than its parent had been. Powered by a Polski-Fiat motor, the TKS had armor protection capable of withstanding small caliber AP bullets, an embryonic form of optical equipment consisting of a periscope, and a sighting telescope, and a strengthened suspension. The TKS had been placed into production during 1934, with a total order for 390 vehicles.


TKS armed with 20mm FK automatic cannon.

Following the lines already taken by Vickers with their Carden-Loyd Patrol Tank (1932), the next stage in the Polish tankette development emerged in 1934. The design was to be known as the TKW - a turreted "midget" tank. Only a few prototypes were ever constructed. Another was an ultra light self-propelled gun fitted with a 37mm Bofors antitank gun mounted in the front plate designated as the TKS-D. It was designed on the basis of the TKS, a small number were constructed in 1936 but rejected after trials. The TK series were finalized with the TKF. A Polski-Fiat engine powered this variant and it carried two machine-guns, one of which was for anti-aircraft defense. In 1936 it was decided to investigate the adaptation of the Danish Madsen or the Swiss 20mm cannon to this type of vehicle but the trials conducted rejected the foreign weapons and a homemade weapon of this type was decided upon. The Polish 20mm FK cannon was ready in 1938 and its mounting on TK-3 and TKS tankettes was started in 1939. Only a few were modified when the war broke out and this brought to an end further Polish armored fighting vehicle development.

[SAMWolf]

The TK family of tankettes


Vickers Carden Loyd M 1934-35

In 1928 Vickers of Great Britain developed the two man "Vickers Carden-Loyd Mark VI tankette". This outstanding design attracted a great deal of attention worldwide. This tiny tracked armored vehicle could be either used as a machine-gun carrier or as a light tractor and was a real plus for nations with restricted military budgets. The Vickers Carden-Loyd Mark VI tankette was sold to numerous foreign countries in one form or another as a result. Poland purchased one unit and went on to produce a domestic version based on this model. Designated TK-1, the Polish tankette was a 1.75 ton, 2-man vehicle powered by a Ford motor. The TK-2 development led to the heavier TK-3, which was accepted as the production model. The TK-3 became the first armored tracklaying vehicle manufactured in quantity in Poland. It was produced under the parentage of the state-run PZInz (Panstwowe Zaklady Inzynierii - State Engineering Works), and orders for 300 machines were fulfilled from 1931 onwards.



The development of the tankette had been continued in Poland and, through progressive steps, the TK series was gradually improved. By 1933, the TK-3 had given rise to the TKS, a slightly heavier model than its parent had been. Powered by a Polski-Fiat motor, the TKS had armor protection capable of withstanding small caliber AP bullets, optical equipment consisting of a periscope and a sighting telescope, and a strengthened suspension. The TKS had been placed into production during 1934, with a total order for 390 vehicles. Following the lines already taken by Vickers with their Carden-Loyd Patrol Tank (1932), the next stage in the Polish tankette development emerged in 1934. The design was to be known as the TKW - a turreted "midget" tank. Only a few prototypes were ever constructed. Another interesting design was the ultra light self-propelled gun fitted with either a 37mm Bofors or 47mm Polish 47mm wz.25 gun mounted in the front plate designated as the TKS-D. The TK series were finalized with the TK-S. In 1936 it was decided to investigate the adaptation of the Danish Madsen or the Swiss 20mm cannon to this type of vehicle but the trials conducted rejected the foreign weapons and a homemade weapon of this type was decided upon.

Specifications Crew 2
Engine Ford or Fiat, 40 hp
Weight 5,358 lb
Speed 28.5 mph
Range 75 miles
Main Gun 7.92 mm (6/16 inch) machine gun, 20 mm (13/16 inch) anti-tank cannon. Some prototypes had larger cannon, but were not produced in quanities.
Length 8.46'
Width 5.84'
Height4.33'
Armor 4 - 10 mm (1/8 to 3/8 inch)

The TK-1 and TK-2


The TK-1 and TK-2

Developed based on the Vickers Carden Loyd Mark VI. First developement started in 1929. The difference between the two appears to be the placement of the transmission. Only one TK-1 and one TK-2 were produced - prototypes only.

The TK-3, TK, wz.31


TK-3 tankette

The TK series prototypes were called TK-1, TK-2, and TK-3. The TK-3 was the model that series production was decided upon. The production models were simply called TK. However, it is common to hear of the term TK-3 applied to the production model as well. The TK-3 was shown to Estonia, who purchased 6 for testing. Romania, Yugoslavia, and Spain, were also shown the tankette but no sales resulted.

TKF

An interim model. It used a TK body with a new motor that was incorporated into the TK-S. A Polski-Fiat engine powered this vehicle and it carried two machine-guns, one of which was for anti-aircraft defense. The first tank was built in 1933 and after a series of trails production was started in 1934. Total production was 18 tanks of which 13 was mobilized in September 1939. TKF were issued to the 10th Cavalry Brigade (10 Brygada Kawalerii Zmotoryzowanej) and assigned to the Reconaissance Tank Squadron (the brigade had two tankette units: reconnaissance squadron and 101 company). The engine designation was a Polski Fiat 122 (and it came from a truck PF-621). The TKF armor was bolted as in common TK-3.

The TKW


The TKW

Considered too small, this design was unsuccessful.

The TKD


The TKD

Armed with a 37 or 47 mm cannon. Only 4 prototypes were ever produced and probably took part in the defense of Warsaw. The 37mm gun was a Bofors and the 47mm gun was a Polish 47mm wz.25. Four units were made with a 47mm gun and two were made with a 37mm gun.

TKS-B - wz.39

TKS-B was a prototype of TKS fitted with the improved chassis of 1938 (the same chassis as used by the C2P tractor).

The TKS, wz.33


TKS tankette.

Started in 1933, 390 were built. Armor was up to 10 mm and a few were made of cast armor (1934) - revolutionary technology in that age. Between 1936/39 work was carried out to up-gun the tankette by mounting a 20 mm automatic cannon in a large ball mount.The Polish 20mm FK cannon was ready in 1938 and its mounting on TK-3 and TKS tankettes was started in 1939. Twenty three were upgraded before the events of 1939 overtook the upgrade.

Additional Sources:

www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter
www.fact-index.com
mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/GreatBritain
www.linux-penguin.org
www.polandinexile.com
www.kampania.digimer.pl

[SAMWolf]

The tankette was a small tank, with a crew of 2 (there were prototypes with one-man crew). It usually had no turret. It was armed with 1 or 2 machineguns, rarely with 20 mm gun. The "classic" design was the British Carden-Loyd Mk.VI Tankette - many others were modelled after it. Tankettes were produced mainly around 1930 - 1935. The world's best known tankettes were:

British :Carden-Loyd Tankette
Polish: TK-3 and TKS
Italian: CV-33 and CV-35
Soviet: T-27
Japanese: Type 94 TK (it had rotating turret)

[SAMWolf]

Here are the recommended holiday mailing dates for military mail this year:

For military mail addressed TO APO and FPO addresses, the mailing dates are:

• Parcel Post - November 13
• Space Available - November 27
• Parcel Airlift - December 4
• Priority Mail, First Class cards and letters - Mailing date is December 11 to all locations
  • EXCEPT for locations starting with ZIP 093. For all locations starting with ZIP 093 the mailing date is December 6.
• Express Mail - December 20 to locations where Express Mail service is available. Check with your local post office to determine which APO/FPO addresses can receive Express Mail. Note: This service is not available to ships.

------

For military mail FROM APO and FPO addresses, the mailing dates are:

• Space Available - November 20
• Parcel Airlift - December 4
• Priority Mail, First Class cards and letters - December 11
• Express Mail - December 18 from APO/FPO addresses where Express Mail can be accepted. Check with your local military post office to determine if they can accept Express Mail. Note: This service is not available from ships.

Thanks for the information StayAtHomeMother

---

Veterans for Constitution Restoration is a non-profit, non-partisan educational and grassroots activist organization. The primary area of concern to all VetsCoR members is that our national and local educational systems fall short in teaching students and all American citizens the history and underlying principles on which our Constitutional republic-based system of self-government was founded. VetsCoR members are also very concerned that the Federal government long ago over-stepped its limited authority as clearly specified in the United States Constitution, as well as the Founding Fathers' supporting letters, essays, and other public documents.

---

Actively seeking volunteers to provide this valuable service to Veterans and their families.

---

UPDATED THROUGH APRIL 2004



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************Snippy, I bequeath to you the FR TH PL.

148 posted on 08/24/2004 11:39:45 AM PDT by Cannoneer No. 4 (I've lost turret power; I have my nods and my .50. Hooah. I will stay until relieved. White 2 out.)

Hi Cannoneer, we miss you. :-)

[SAMWolf]

Good Night Snippy

I got the "car" and trailer loaded with the stuff for the store. :-)

[snippy_about_it]

LOL. Clear the way! See you in the morning, good night.

[wildcatf4f3]

ping

[SAMWolf]

Morning wildcatf4f3.

Up late or early?

[wildcatf4f3]

Still up. I am a oneman Auto repair shop and I've got to get these cyl. heads off tonight so I can drop them at the machine shop when he opens. We have a deal - I disassemble and clean thereby handing him a valve job where all he has to do is grind, He likes that alot. I get them back the same day.

[wildcatf4f3]

Brit tanks _ Oh No! Lucas electrics and stromberg carburetors on the battlefield ? Oh God no! "Don't worry Smitty just a little adjustment and we'll be right as rain"--- I still can't believe the RAF did so well in the battle of Britain, -- mech injection and bosch electrics vs Lucas and SU at 20,000 feet. It was divine intervention in this mechanics opinion.

[Aeronaut]

Good morning Snippy.

[Iris7]

"Gabby" Gabreski, 27 kills with the Eighth Air Force flying P-47s, said that the Spitfire V engine would stop when you flew the machine inverted. I guess SUs don't work upside down. Gabreski was scandalized. You really had to know the machines' limitations well, I guess.

The F4F was a fine machine in the hands of a pilot who knew it's limitations. Could have used more power. Awhile back I put up a little on the Thach Weave, one of the better Wildcat tactics. On the Joe Foss thread.

We could have lost that war in 1942. Wilcat pilots are a big part of why we did not.

Any war machine is good if it is effective. Wildcat was a good machine.

Good luck with those heads. I think you are doing a big job. More like a week than an evening.

[Iris7]

Look at those lads waiting to attack Wehrmacht armor in those tin cans. They knew what what a slim chance they had. Determined bunch.

[E.G.C.]

Good morning, Snippy and everyone at the Freeper Foxhole.

[The Mayor]

November 9, 2004

Hope For Worriers

Read: Psalm 23

The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. —Psalm 23:1

Bible In One Year: Jeremiah 46-47; Hebrews 6

---

Everyone worries occasionally, but I was once a "professional worrier." My daily preoccupation was mulling over my worries, one by one.

Then one day I had to face an uncomfortable medical test, and I was frantic with fear. Finally I decided that during the test I would focus on the first five words of Psalm 23, "The Lord is my shepherd." This exercise in meditation not only calmed me, but I gained several fresh insights. Later, as I slowly meditated through the entire psalm, the Lord gave me more insights. Eventually I was able to share at conferences what the Lord had taught me.

If you're a worrier, there's hope for you too! Rick Warren, author of The Purpose-Driven Life, wrote: "When you think about a problem over and over in your mind, that's called worry. When you think about God's Word over and over in your mind, that's meditation. If you know how to worry, you already know how to meditate!"

The more we meditate on God's Word, the less we need to worry. In Psalm 23, David meditated on his great Shepherd instead of worrying. Later, God chose him to be the shepherd of His people (Psalm 78:70-72). God uses those who can honestly say, "The Lord is my shepherd." —Joanie Yoder

When fear and worry test your faith
And anxious thoughts assail,
Remember God is in control
And He will never fail. —Sper

The more we think about God's Word, the less we'll think about our worries.

[alfa6]

Treadhead Tuesday Bump for the Freeper Foxhole.

Hi manna

I am sorry to report that no joy on the FR Treadhead stickers.
It seems that they are a four color sticker and the school has only a three color press. Curses foiled again!!!

Regards

alfa6 ;>}

[Soaring Feather]

Good morning everyone.

[alfa6]

Here ya go Mate, a pair of Wildcats.

(psst, I think they are FM2s but who cares.eh)

Regards

alfa6 ;>}