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The FReeper Foxhole's TreadHead Tuesday - The U.S. Tank Destroyer Forces - Feb. 10th, 2004
www.818tdbn.org ^

Posted on 02/10/2004 12:00:11 AM PST by SAMWolf



Lord,

Keep our Troops forever in Your care

Give them victory over the enemy...

Grant them a safe and swift return...

Bless those who mourn the lost.
.

FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer
for all those serving their country at this time.


...................................................................................... ...........................................

U.S. Military History, Current Events and Veterans Issues

Where Duty, Honor and Country
are acknowledged, affirmed and commemorated.

Our Mission:

The FReeper Foxhole is dedicated to Veterans of our Nation's military forces and to others who are affected in their relationships with Veterans.

In the FReeper Foxhole, Veterans or their family members should feel free to address their specific circumstances or whatever issues concern them in an atmosphere of peace, understanding, brotherhood and support.

The FReeper Foxhole hopes to share with it's readers an open forum where we can learn about and discuss military history, military news and other topics of concern or interest to our readers be they Veteran's, Current Duty or anyone interested in what we have to offer.

If the Foxhole makes someone appreciate, even a little, what others have sacrificed for us, then it has accomplished one of it's missions.

We hope the Foxhole in some small way helps us to remember and honor those who came before us.

To read previous Foxhole threads or
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click on the books below.

U.S. Tank Destroyers
M3, M10, M18, M36 and M56





In summer 1940, fast, hard-hitting German Panzer forces caused the quick collapse of France and demonstrated the offensive capabilities of the tank. This caused a sense of urgency, and stopping of tanks became one of the most serious problems facing the United States Army.

In November 1941, the War Department ordered activation of a Tank Destroyer Center and Board at Fort Meade, MD.

By the end of 1942, 80 Tank Destroyer Battalions were active and 64 more planned. Known as TD units, these forces were taught to fight tanks with lightly armored vehicles, with mounted cannon, with towed anti-tank guns and as dismounted tank hunting parties using anti tank grenades.



Initially, a TD battalion was armed with half-tracks with 75 mm guns. Combat experience in North Africa, however, was unfavorable. The high silhouette of the halftrack led to the preference of towed guns that could be more easily hidden. As a result, many self propelled TD units in the US were then converted to towed gun units. Following requests from combat theater commanders, half the battalions were converted back to self propelled units. They were armed with the full track M-10 "Wolverine" Tank Destroyer carrying a three inch cannon. As enemy armor increased, tank destroyers also improved. The M-18 "Hellcat", carrying a higher velocity 76 mm gun, was developed, and later the M-36 "Jackson", mounting a 90 mm gun was used. Some versions of the M-36 consisted of the M-36 turret, mounted on the M-4 Sherman tank chassis, known as the M-36B1.

Tank Destroyer units were fast, hard hitting units and were among the most heavily armed and mechanized units in the Army. A Tank Destroyer Gun company consisted of a command post, maintenance section and three gun platoons. The gun platoon was divided into two sections of two tank destroyers and a security section in an M-20 armored car.



Tank Destroyers were extremely vulnerable due to their open topped turrets which provided no crew protection from snipers or air burst artillery. In addition, tank destroyers, unlike tanks, had no machine gun-mounted coaxial with the main gun for defense. Tank Destroyers, although resembling tanks, were very lightly armored and not suited for a tank vs. tank battle. The basic concept and design of the tank destroyer sacrificed armor for speed and agility.

Tank Destroyer units were individual, specialized units attached to larger units for tank defense and had no direct commander. Many losses and casualties suffered by TD units were the result of commanders using tank destroyers as tanks.



Nevertheless, Tank Destroyer units with their "Seek, Strike, Destroy" motto became powerful formations strong in firepower and mobility, and the TD men were renowned for their courage and tenacity.

Initially, 222 TD units were mobilized in 1942. Since massed armor used in early 1940, was rarely used after 1943, the number was reduced. Due to personnel shortages, additional battalions were inactivated and re-designated self-propelled artillery, tank, and quartermaster, or used as infantry replacements. In 1944, only 78 tank destroyer battalions remained.

In late 1945, it was determined that the best defense against a tank was another tank and the Tank Destroyer Force was disbanded. Tank Destroyer units were converted to tank or towed artillery units.


Reloading 90mm ammunition in an M36


Tank Destroyer units hold a high place in military history. Although out-gunned, under-armored, and misused in many ways, they took a high toll of enemy tanks and many other combat vehicles on all fronts. After action reports from most tank destroyer units at the end of World War II indicated over 2,600 enemy tanks and other armored vehicles were destroyed by TD units. An impressive tally of enemy anti tank guns, armored cars and half tracks, pill boxes, machine guns and aircraft shot down by tank destroyer forces showed that in spite of their severe limitations, tank destroyer forces performed their primary mission well.



With the advent of World War II, and as a result of the successes of the German Blitzkrieg, it was special units with tank-hunting and killing capabilities. Leaders decided early on that towed anti-tank guns would not get the job done. A more mobile force was needed. Originally anti-tank units, the name was soon changed to "tank destroyer." This gave the unit an aggressive nature and not a defensive one. Their role would often be a defensive one, however, lying in wait for approaching enemy tanks.



The very first TD battalions were nothing more than modified halftracks, carrying 37mm anti-tank guns or old French 75mm guns. They were used first in the Tunisian campaign with varying degrees of success, but their lack of protective armor made them easy targets. Some were sent to the Pacific, where they enjoyed better results. By 1943, they were discontinued and for that year, the army went back to the idea of towed antitank guns, imitating the German practice. Then someone had the foresight to realize that Germany used this type of weapon out of necessity.



The preference of the Wehrmacht was for self-propelled antitank weapons. The experience of the United States proved that the day of towed weapons such as these had indeed passed. They were totally unsuitable in a modern mobile environment. They served best in fixed defenses and were of little use in tank vs. tank battles, where they were needed the most.


M18 in the ruins of Brest, france, 12 September 1944


So it was that in 1944, the TD battalions in Europe were being converted back to mobile tank destroyers, or SP guns. This time however, technology and innovation had produced some formidable weapons. One was the M-10 Wolverine tank destroyer. Built on a Sherman chassis, it had an open-topped turret (nearly all US tank destroyers had this feature. Its purpose was increased ability to see the enemy) and a top-notch 75mm or 76mm gun. Its success prompted the manufacture of the M-18 Hellcat, a much lighter tank, with a minimum of armor protection, but great speed and agility. It sported a powerful 76mm gun that was an equivalent of the 75mm gun on the Panther.


M10 and M36


Then came the M-36, which would be the most powerful of all the tank destroyers. Utilizing the M-10 and M-18 as the basis, the M-36 had speed, armor and power. It also carried a 90mm gun, which with the introduction of the HVAP anti-tank round, could kill anything the Germans had, with the exception of frontal hits on a few of the later monsters.

Strangely, perhaps due to the lack of German armor toward the end of the war, these tank destroyers were never used in mass for that for which they were created. In some instance, TD battalions were disbanded, their troops sent to other armored units, or converted to infantry status.

Wild Bill Wilder



TOPICS: VetsCoR
KEYWORDS: armor; freeperfoxhole; hellcat; jackson; m10; m18; m3; m36; m56; scorpion; tankdestroyers; tanks; treadhead; usarmy; veterans; wolverine; wwii
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To: Jen
Thanks Jen.
61 posted on 02/10/2004 9:34:36 AM PST by SAMWolf (Circular Definition: see Definition, Circular.)
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To: Darksheare
Hi Darksheare.

Field Artillery -- King of Battle

62 posted on 02/10/2004 9:36:08 AM PST by SAMWolf (Circular Definition: see Definition, Circular.)
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To: carton253
We're here for ya! :-)
63 posted on 02/10/2004 9:36:37 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: archy
Sgt. Dwight A. Hieke is a part of that history of keeping this nation free. God Bless America

   Amen. 

            ( and bless those who keep and teach others that history). 

64 posted on 02/10/2004 9:37:46 AM PST by Ragtime Cowgirl
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To: gatorbait
Thanks gatorbait for the sharing that information with us!
65 posted on 02/10/2004 9:37:48 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Thanks! Because I'm not sure they have a 12 step program for people like me! LOL!
66 posted on 02/10/2004 9:38:06 AM PST by carton253 (I have no genius at seeming.)
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
Me too. I learned something ;o)

Isn't it fun "fallin' in to the Foxhole?

67 posted on 02/10/2004 9:38:56 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: SAMWolf
You're welcome Sam! I enjoy recruiting for the Foxhole! It's one of my favorite threads - though I don't fall in very often and tell you so.
68 posted on 02/10/2004 9:40:27 AM PST by Jen
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To: Jen
Thanks Jen!
69 posted on 02/10/2004 9:40:36 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: Jen
Thanks, never hurts to let the newbies know where we are.
70 posted on 02/10/2004 9:45:23 AM PST by SAMWolf (Circular Definition: see Definition, Circular.)
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To: SAMWolf
Yup.
At least no-one has been crazy enough to try to use Paladins as tanks.
71 posted on 02/10/2004 9:47:40 AM PST by Darksheare (Blame Darkchylde for some of my taglines, they're her fault, really!)
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To: SAMWolf
The M6 was originally kitted by Peerles-MAX then Italeri, then Testor's, then Zveda, thne Italeri. It is about a 35 year old molding but still not too bad., The CGN stuff is resin and expensive but really gorgeous. So far,this guy does only US equipment . Make your self nuts and build his Ford GTB. Beautiful when finished, though .
72 posted on 02/10/2004 9:48:49 AM PST by gatorbait (Yesterday, today and tomorrow......The United States Army)
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To: Darksheare
At least no-one has been crazy enough to try to use Paladins as tanks

Give em some more time ;-).

73 posted on 02/10/2004 9:48:57 AM PST by SAMWolf (Circular Definition: see Definition, Circular.)
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To: SAMWolf; snippy_about_it
Woohoo, it's Treadhead Tuesday! Thanks for this thread, Sam. My knowledge of the WWII tank destroyers was very incomplete.

Besides the light armor, that open turret wouldn't be much fun if the Germans started firing airburst.

74 posted on 02/10/2004 9:57:02 AM PST by colorado tanker ("There are but two parties now, Traitors and Patriots")
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To: SAMWolf
True.
There are those in the brass who honestly think and believe that lack of armor can be made up for with a bunch of cerebral sounding terms, semi-effective gadgets, and 8 wheels.

75 posted on 02/10/2004 9:59:22 AM PST by Darksheare (Blame Darkchylde for some of my taglines, they're her fault, really!)
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To: SAMWolf
My recollection is that the leg wound is what lead to Murphy's medical discharge, preventing him from pursuing the military career he wanted - and led to him turning to a career in Hollywood.
76 posted on 02/10/2004 9:59:32 AM PST by colorado tanker ("There are but two parties now, Traitors and Patriots")
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To: archy
Thanks for Sgt. Hieke's story. The personal stories bring home how much our war dead and wounded sacrificed for their country. That's one of the things the Foxhole helps bring us, too.
77 posted on 02/10/2004 10:02:57 AM PST by colorado tanker ("There are but two parties now, Traitors and Patriots")
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To: colorado tanker
Morning CT. Interesting difference in the philosophy between the US and Germany. We'll cover the German TD's next month.
78 posted on 02/10/2004 10:03:52 AM PST by SAMWolf (Circular Definition: see Definition, Circular.)
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To: colorado tanker
On 21 September, 1945, Audie was released from the Army as an active member and reassigned to inactive status.

You're probably right, he was wounded on the 26th of January.

79 posted on 02/10/2004 10:20:13 AM PST by SAMWolf (Circular Definition: see Definition, Circular.)
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To: Darksheare
Hiya Darksheare.
80 posted on 02/10/2004 10:40:04 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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