Posted on 09/30/2003 9:32:47 AM PDT by Fifthmark
Protestantism is founded on many lies: (1) That Our Blessed Lord and Savior Jesus Christ did not create a visible, hierarchical Church. (2) That there is no authority given by Our Lord to the Pope and his bishops and priests to govern and to sanctify the faithful. (3) That each believer has an immediate and personal relationship with the Savior as soon as he makes a profession of faith on his lips and in his heart, therefore being perpetually justified before God. (4) Having been justified by faith alone, a believer has no need of an intermediary from a non-existent hierarchical priesthood to forgive him his sins. He is forgiven by God immediately when he asks forgiveness. (5) This state of justification is not earned by good works. While good works are laudable, especially to help unbelievers convert, they do not impute unto salvation. Salvation is the result of the profession of faith that justifies the sinner. (6) That grace is merely, in the words of Martin Luther, the snowflakes that cover up the "dungheap" that is man. (7) That there is only one source of Divine Revelation, Sacred Scripture. (8) That each individual is his own interpreter of Sacred Scripture. (9) That there is a strict separation of Church and State. Princes, to draw from Luther himself, may be Christians but it is not as a Christian that they ought to rule. These lies have permutated in thousands of different directions. However, they have sewn the fabric of the modern state and popular culture for nearly 500 years (I shudder to think how the Vatican is going to commemorate the 500th anniversary of Luther's posting his 95 theses on the church doors in Wittenberg fourteen years from now).
Here below are explanations of these lies and their multifaceted implications for the world in which we live:
(1-2) The contention that Our Lord did not create a visible, hierarchical church vitiates the need for a hierarchical, sacerdotal priesthood for the administration of the sacraments. It is a rejection of the entirety of the history of Christianity prior to the Sixteenth Century. It is a denial of the lesson taught us by Our Lord by means of His submission to His own creatures, Saint Joseph and the Blessed Mother, in the Holy Family of Nazareth that each of us is to live our entire lives under authority, starting with the authority of the Vicar of Christ and those bishops who are in full communion with him. The rejection of the visible, hierarchical church is founded on the prideful belief that we are able to govern ourselves without being directed by anyone else on earth. This contention would lead in due course to the rejection of any and all religious belief as necessary for individuals and for societies. Luther and Calvin paved the way for Jean-Jacques Rousseau and the French Revolution that followed so closely the latter's deification of man.
(3-6) Baptism is merely symbolic of the Christian's desire to be associated with the Savior in the amorphous body known as the Church. What is determinative of the believer's relationship with Christ is his profession of faith. As the believer remains a reprobate sinner, all he can do is to seek forgiveness by confessing his sins privately to God. This gives the Protestant of the Lutheran strain the presumptuous sense that there is almost nothing he can do to lose his salvation once he has made his profession of faith in the Lord Jesus. There is thus no belief that a person can scale the heights of personal sanctity by means of sanctifying grace. It is impossible, as Luther projected from his own unwillingness to cooperate with sanctifying grace to overcome his battles with lust, for the believer to be anything other than a dungheap. Thus a Protestant can sin freely without for once considering that he has killed the life of sanctifying grace in his soul, thereby darkening his intellect and weakening the will and inclining himself all the more to sin-and all the more a vessel of disorder and injustice in the larger life of society.
(7-8) The rejection of a visible, hierarchical Church and the rejection of Apostolic Tradition as a source of Divine Revelation protected by that Church leads in both instances to theological relativism. Without an authoritative guide to interpret Divine Revelation, including Sacred Scripture, individual believers can come to mutually contradictory conclusions about the meaning of passages, the precise thing that has given rise to literally thousands of Protestant sects. And if a believer can reduce the Bible, which he believes is the sole source of Divine Revelation, to the level of individual interpretation, then there is nothing to prevent anyone from doing the same with all written documents, including the documents of a nation's founding. If the plain words of Scripture can be deconstructed of their meaning, it is easy to do so, say, with the words of a governmental constitution. Theological relativism paved the way for moral relativism. Moral relativism paved the way for the triumph of positivism and deconstructionism as normative in the realm of theology and that of law and popular culture.
(9) The overthrow of the Social Kingship of Jesus Christ as it was exercised by His true Church in the Middle Ages by the Protestant concept of the separation of Church and State is what gave rise to royal absolutism in Europe in the immediate aftermath of Luther's handiwork. Indeed, as I have noted any number of times before, it is arguably the case that the conditions that bred resentment on the part of colonists in English America prior to 1776 might never have developed if England had remained a Catholic nation. The monarchy would have been subject in the Eighteenth Century to same constraints as it had in the Tenth or Eleventh Centuries, namely, that kings and queens would have continued to understand that the Church reserved unto herself the right to interpose herself in the event that rulers had done things-or proposed to do things-that were contrary to the binding precepts of the Divine positive law and the natural law and/or were injurious of the cause of the sanctification and salvation of the souls of their subjects. The overthrow of the Social Kingship of Jesus Christ deposited power first of all in the hands of monarchs eager to be rid of the "interference" of the Church and ultimately in the hands of whoever happened to hold the reins of governmental power in the modern "democratic" state. Despotism has been the result in both cases
(Excerpt) Read more at seattlecatholic.com ...
Golly, just posting a LITTLE Scripture to back up your beliefs would be a suprise!
Proverbs teaches that a Godly mother would be called Blessed by their children (Pro 31:27 She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness. Pro 31:28 Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband [also], and he praiseth her. )..I doubt that means they are to pray to her...nice try though
"So I say to you, there shall be joy before the angels of God upon one sinner doing penance." (St. Luke 15.10)
And??? This is not even a proof text (not a good try:>)
"Now the vision was in this manner. Onias, who had been high priest, a good and virtuous man, modest in his looks, gentle in his manners, and graceful in speech, and who from a child was exercised in virtues holding up his hands, prayed for all the people of the Jews: After this there appeared also another man, admirable for age, and glory, and environed with great beauty and majesty: Then Onias answering, said: This is a lover of his brethren, and of the people of Israel: this is he that prayeth much for the people, and for all the holy city, Jeremias, the prophet of God." (2 Maccabees 15.12-14)
Not an inspired text , but it also does not teach people to pray to Mary
Mary as Co redeemer
"And thy own soul a sword shall pierce, that, out of many hearts thoughts may be revealed." (St. Luke 2.35)
Where does this prophecy say one word about her being a co redeemer
Luk 2:34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this [child] is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;
Luk 2:35 (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.
Unless you crucified the sinless mary for the sins of man that my friend is blasphemy and breaking the first commandment
indulgences
"And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven." (St. Matthew 16.19)
Well that is a new proof text to me..I thought you guys claimed that for confession..is that now an all purpose text?BTW The Mormons think they have the keys to the Kingdom.. etc. What else?
I think that a LOT of folks are reading things that talk ABOUT the Bible, and what it's supposed to mean, without actually READING the Bible to see exactly what IT says......
A couple of verses are particularly revealing:
John 6
44. "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
45. It is written in the Prophets: `They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.
It does NOT say that MEN will teach you!
What YOU are fishing for is an "A" vs "C" foodfight so you can slip away in the melee!
My eyes just ROLL!
Actually, it was not "cut and pastes" - I took down these quotes from books before the internet existed over 10 years ago, but I can point to you to hypertext references if you wish.
St. Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures, 18.23 and 18.26.
St. Pacian, Epistles to Sympronian, 1.4
This epistle is not available online. I cited it out of Fr. Jurgens "Faith of the Early Fathers", Vol. 2, pg. 142
Here are some others:
Wherever the Bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. (St. Ignatius, Epistle to the Smyraens, 8.2, circa AD 110)
When finally [Polycarp] had finished his prayer, in which he remembered everyone with whom he had ever been acquainted, the small and the great, the reknowned and the unknown, and the whole Catholic Church throughout the world ... And of the elect, he was one indeed, the wonderful martyr Polycarp, who in our days was an apostolic and prophetic teacher, bishop of the Catholic Church in Smyrna. ... Now with the Apostles and all the just he is glorifying God and the Father Almighty, and he is blessing Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Savior of our souls, the Helmsman of our bodies, and the Shepherd of the Catholic Church throughout the world. (Martyrdom of St. Polycarp, 8.1, 16.2, 19.1, AD 155/157)
We say therefore, that in substance, in concept, in origin and in eminence, the ancient and Catholic Church is alone, gathering as it does into the unity of the one faith which results from the familiar covenants,- or rather, from the one covenant in different times, by the will of the one God and through the one Lord,- those already chosen, those predestined by God who knew before the foundation of the world that they would be just. (St. Clement of Alexandria, Stromateis, 7.17.107.3, AD 202)
Entire Book - St. Cyprian of Carthage, The Unity of the Catholic Church, AD 251/256
"It is therefore, the Catholic Church alone which retains true worship. This is the fountain of truth; this, the domicile of faith; this the temple of GOD. Whoever does not enter there or whoever does not go out from here, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation ... Because, however, all the various groups of heretics are confident that they are the Christians, and think that theirs is the Catholic Church, let it be known: that is the true Church, in which there is confession and penance, and which takes a salubrious care of sins and wounds to which the weak flesh is subject." (Lactantius, The Divine Institutions, 4.30.11 and 4.30.13, AD 304)
I suppose you will have us believe that Emperor Theodosius just made all this and much more up all on his own?
I believe your ignorance is showing, and badly.
When you evince so much respect for them, its downright ungrateful for them not to embrace uncritically everything you have to say.
You are right ,it shows the heart of the Catholic Church and that Luther scared the hell out of them . Praise God that the fear tactics did not work and Protestantism was protected by the Holy Spirit
Well, I'm quite certain that YOU will die if you persist in your sins. The rest of us hope to live in Christ.
St. Matthew 22.32 I am the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.
St. John 11.23 Jesus saith to her: Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith to him: I know that he shall rise again, in the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said to her: I am the resurrection and the life: he that believeth in me, although he be dead, shall live:
26 And every one that liveth and believeth in me shall not die for ever. Believest thou this?
27 She saith to him: Yea, Lord, I have believed that thou art Christ, the Son of the living God, who art come into this world.
A Christian falls asleep in the Lord. Pagans and heretics and the like die the death, as will you, since it is so earnestly your wish. God will not deny you what you want.
Blessed Mary lives and reigns forever with Christ and the Apostles and Martyrs and Saints.
And of the elect, he was one indeed, the wonderful martyr Polycarp, who in our days was an apostolic and prophetic teacher, bishop of the Catholic Church in Smyrna. ... Now with the Apostles and all the just he is glorifying God and the Father Almighty, and he is blessing Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Savior of our souls, the Helmsman of our bodies, and the Shepherd of the Catholic Church throughout the world. (Martyrdom of St. Polycarp, 16.2, 19.1, AD 155/157)
The atonement was a sinless man taking on the sin of men , if the man had any sin he would have been dying for his own sin . and taking the punishment we deserve..so if his mother was sinless we could have cut out the middle man and hung her for the sins of man
You may not like that but that is where your doctrine takes us
It was the Son of God incarnate , the son of man , the second Adam (man ) that saved us .
Btw your comment about aborted babies being sinless is against your churches of original ..do you want me to explain it to you?
I'm sorry. I mistook you for some sort of Christian. I see here that you deny the resurrection of the body. Apparently you are some sort of Manichean or dualist???
The Bible says they were saved by faith in the promise
By your reckoning God could have bypassed the atonement and just made all men born sinless again
The living saints in heaven, the Church Triumphant, have NO ROLE? What authority have you for such a claim?
NIV John 11:11-27
11. After he had said this, he went on to tell them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep (died) ; but I am going there to wake him up."
12. His disciples replied, "Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better."
13. Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep.
14. So then he told them plainly, "Lazarus is dead,
15. and for your sake I am glad I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him."
16. Then Thomas (called Didymus) said to the rest of the disciples, "Let us also go, that we may die with him."
17. On his arrival, Jesus found that Lazarus had already been in the tomb for four days.
18. Bethany was less than two miles from Jerusalem,
19. and many Jews had come to Martha and Mary to comfort them in the loss of their brother.
20. When Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went out to meet him, but Mary stayed at home.
21. "Lord," Martha said to Jesus, "if you had been here, my brother would not have died.
22. But I know that even now God will give you whatever you ask."
23. Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again."
24. Martha answered, "I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."
25. Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;
26. and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"
27. "Yes, Lord," she told him, "I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, who was to come into the world."
Jesus did NOT say that Martha's statement was wrong.
NIV Acts 7:8, 59-60
8. Now Stephen, a man full of God's grace and power, did great wonders and miraculous signs among the people.
59. While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."
60. Then he fell on his knees and cried out, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he had said this, he fell asleep (died) .
NIV Acts 13:36
36. "For when David had served God's purpose in his own generation, he fell asleep (died) ; he was buried with his fathers and his body decayed. (A man after God's own heart)
NIV 1 Corinthians 11:30
30. That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep (died) .
NIV 1 Corinthians 15:6
6. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep (died) .
NIV 1 Corinthians 15:20-23
20. But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep (died) .
21. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.
22. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
23. But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
NIV 1 Corinthians 15:51-52
51. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--
52. in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
NIV Ephesians 5:13-14
13. But everything exposed by the light becomes visible,
14. for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said: "Wake up, O sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you."
NIV 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
13. Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep (die) , or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope.
14. We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep (died) in him.
15. According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep (died) .
16. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
18. Therefore encourage each other with these words.
(All these verses speak of the dead as SLEEPING. And, at the SECOND Coming, THEN they will join Jesus: not before)
And not one bit of it saves
The fruit of Catholicism - billions of souls in heaven, a worldwide network of charitable institutions and houses of education, the preservation of learning through the ages, etc.
You need to study a bit Herman
Calvin sought to improve the life of the 17th Century French citizens in many ways. He supported good hospitals, a proper sewage system, protective rails on upper stories to keep children from falling from tall buildings, special care for the poor and infirm, and the introduction of new industries.
You must be desperate Herman ..no arguments on topic, only Ad hominem attacks
Now what Tradition did he hold? Confession? mass? prayer to saints ,rosaries
So what "traditions do you think?? May be offering dead lambs ?
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