Thomas A. Droleskey on the Lies of Protestantism

Seattle Catholic ^ | September 29, 2003 | Thomas A. Droleskey

[Fifthmark]

Protestantism is founded on many lies: (1) That Our Blessed Lord and Savior Jesus Christ did not create a visible, hierarchical Church. (2) That there is no authority given by Our Lord to the Pope and his bishops and priests to govern and to sanctify the faithful. (3) That each believer has an immediate and personal relationship with the Savior as soon as he makes a profession of faith on his lips and in his heart, therefore being perpetually justified before God. (4) Having been justified by faith alone, a believer has no need of an intermediary from a non-existent hierarchical priesthood to forgive him his sins. He is forgiven by God immediately when he asks forgiveness. (5) This state of justification is not earned by good works. While good works are laudable, especially to help unbelievers convert, they do not impute unto salvation. Salvation is the result of the profession of faith that justifies the sinner. (6) That grace is merely, in the words of Martin Luther, the snowflakes that cover up the "dungheap" that is man. (7) That there is only one source of Divine Revelation, Sacred Scripture. (8) That each individual is his own interpreter of Sacred Scripture. (9) That there is a strict separation of Church and State. Princes, to draw from Luther himself, may be Christians but it is not as a Christian that they ought to rule. These lies have permutated in thousands of different directions. However, they have sewn the fabric of the modern state and popular culture for nearly 500 years (I shudder to think how the Vatican is going to commemorate the 500th anniversary of Luther's posting his 95 theses on the church doors in Wittenberg fourteen years from now).

Here below are explanations of these lies and their multifaceted implications for the world in which we live:

(1-2) The contention that Our Lord did not create a visible, hierarchical church vitiates the need for a hierarchical, sacerdotal priesthood for the administration of the sacraments. It is a rejection of the entirety of the history of Christianity prior to the Sixteenth Century. It is a denial of the lesson taught us by Our Lord by means of His submission to His own creatures, Saint Joseph and the Blessed Mother, in the Holy Family of Nazareth that each of us is to live our entire lives under authority, starting with the authority of the Vicar of Christ and those bishops who are in full communion with him. The rejection of the visible, hierarchical church is founded on the prideful belief that we are able to govern ourselves without being directed by anyone else on earth. This contention would lead in due course to the rejection of any and all religious belief as necessary for individuals and for societies. Luther and Calvin paved the way for Jean-Jacques Rousseau and the French Revolution that followed so closely the latter's deification of man.

(3-6) Baptism is merely symbolic of the Christian's desire to be associated with the Savior in the amorphous body known as the Church. What is determinative of the believer's relationship with Christ is his profession of faith. As the believer remains a reprobate sinner, all he can do is to seek forgiveness by confessing his sins privately to God. This gives the Protestant of the Lutheran strain the presumptuous sense that there is almost nothing he can do to lose his salvation once he has made his profession of faith in the Lord Jesus. There is thus no belief that a person can scale the heights of personal sanctity by means of sanctifying grace. It is impossible, as Luther projected from his own unwillingness to cooperate with sanctifying grace to overcome his battles with lust, for the believer to be anything other than a dungheap. Thus a Protestant can sin freely without for once considering that he has killed the life of sanctifying grace in his soul, thereby darkening his intellect and weakening the will and inclining himself all the more to sin-and all the more a vessel of disorder and injustice in the larger life of society.

(7-8) The rejection of a visible, hierarchical Church and the rejection of Apostolic Tradition as a source of Divine Revelation protected by that Church leads in both instances to theological relativism. Without an authoritative guide to interpret Divine Revelation, including Sacred Scripture, individual believers can come to mutually contradictory conclusions about the meaning of passages, the precise thing that has given rise to literally thousands of Protestant sects. And if a believer can reduce the Bible, which he believes is the sole source of Divine Revelation, to the level of individual interpretation, then there is nothing to prevent anyone from doing the same with all written documents, including the documents of a nation's founding. If the plain words of Scripture can be deconstructed of their meaning, it is easy to do so, say, with the words of a governmental constitution. Theological relativism paved the way for moral relativism. Moral relativism paved the way for the triumph of positivism and deconstructionism as normative in the realm of theology and that of law and popular culture.

(9) The overthrow of the Social Kingship of Jesus Christ as it was exercised by His true Church in the Middle Ages by the Protestant concept of the separation of Church and State is what gave rise to royal absolutism in Europe in the immediate aftermath of Luther's handiwork. Indeed, as I have noted any number of times before, it is arguably the case that the conditions that bred resentment on the part of colonists in English America prior to 1776 might never have developed if England had remained a Catholic nation. The monarchy would have been subject in the Eighteenth Century to same constraints as it had in the Tenth or Eleventh Centuries, namely, that kings and queens would have continued to understand that the Church reserved unto herself the right to interpose herself in the event that rulers had done things-or proposed to do things-that were contrary to the binding precepts of the Divine positive law and the natural law and/or were injurious of the cause of the sanctification and salvation of the souls of their subjects. The overthrow of the Social Kingship of Jesus Christ deposited power first of all in the hands of monarchs eager to be rid of the "interference" of the Church and ultimately in the hands of whoever happened to hold the reins of governmental power in the modern "democratic" state. Despotism has been the result in both cases

[Tantumergo]

"As applies to that specific passage or Marian theology in general?"

As applies to that specific passage - it is St. John's recapitulation of Genesis 2 & 3 with the man, the woman and the serpent or new Adam, new Eve and the dragon. Only this time the new Adam and Eve are victorious over the dragon.

"It is hard for anybody to be objective when they feel under fire by one side or the other."

Very true words. ;)

[ppaul]

Lies

Gee, that's a rather bigoted statement.

At this point, I suppose it should be pointed out that Roman Catholicism teaches that salvation is available only through the Catholic church:

"The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: 'For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained.'" Pg. 215, #816

Here, the 1994 catechism reaffirms the existing teaching of Vatican II, that salvation can be obtained only through the Roman Catholic church. The catechism leaves no doubt that the Catholic church is necessary for salvation:

"...all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body: Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation..." Pg. 224, #846

Past popes have taught this doctrine, as have previous catechisms and church fathers. Here is but one example…

On May 7, 2001, Pope John Paul II told 2,000 youth gathered at the Greek-Melkite Cathedral of Damascus that "you cannot be a Christian if you reject the Church founded on Jesus Christ."1

You personally may not believe this, but the pope does. And it is an official doctrine of the Catholic religion.

If you check the Scriptures on this subject, you will not find a single verse requiring one to go through a church to be saved. In fact, the opposite is taught:

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:13

When Jesus died on the cross, He paid the full price for the sins of all mankind. According to God's Word, anyone can go directly to Him for salvation. Jesus Himself announced that:

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." John 3:36

Jesus preached:

"He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life…" John 5:24

"He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." John 6:47

Jesus repeats this message in John 3:16, 3:18, and 6:40. If the Catholic church really is necessary for salvation, then Jesus Christ is a liar.

The Apostle Paul gives step by step instructions on how to be saved:

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." Romans 10:9-10

Notice, no church is required. So if Catholicism is right, then the Apostle Paul is also a liar. And since he wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is a liar as well.

"But as many as received (trusted in) him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name." John 1:12

St. John says you become God's child by believing in Jesus Christ. If this Catholic doctrine is true, then John's name must be added to the list of liars.

But John is not a liar. Jesus never requires a church for salvation:

"To him (Jesus) give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." Acts 10:43

The key is belief in Christ, not a church:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth…" Romans 1:16

According to Paul, Timothy needed faith in Christ to be saved, not a church:

"And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus." 2 Timothy 3:15

When the Philippian prison guard asked Paul, "What must I do to be saved?," did Paul answer, "You must become a member of the Roman Catholic church?" No, he responded:

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved…" Acts 16:31

Remember when Jesus was hanging on the cross? The thief on the cross next to Him cried out:

"…Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom." Luke 23:42

When that dying sinner uttered those words of faith, Jesus responded by saying:

"To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." Luke 23:43

Salvation is in Christ… not in a church.

The catechism claims salvation comes "…through Christ's Catholic Church alone…" But God's Word says it is obtained through Jesus Christ:

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23

"… God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him." 1 John 4:9

Only Christ can offer us salvation because He alone shed His blood for us:

"Much more then, being now justi-fied by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." Romans 5:9

No church can offer salvation. Only Jesus can:

"Neither is there salvation in any other (except Jesus): for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:10, 12

Conclusion

Since the Bible and Catholicism clearly disagree, here are some questions you must answer:

• If the Catholic church is necessary to escape hell and reach heaven, would not God have clearly stated it in His Word… at least once?

• Why would Jesus repeatedly lie by saying that salvation is available through faith in Him?

•Are you willing to call Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, the Apostle Paul and the Apostle John all liars? For your religion to be right, you must.

• For centuries, Bible believing Christians have contended that this unbiblical doctrine was created to keep members in bondage. Was it?

• Lastly, you must again answer the question, "Which will I obey and serve, the traditions of men, or the Word of God?" You cannot say "both" because each says the other is wrong.

Someday you will stand face to face with Jesus Christ. You will look Him right in the eyes. You might want to start thinking about how you are going to tell the Lord that you rejected His teachings and obeyed the traditions of sinful men because you assumed He was lying.

"For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men…" Mark 7:8

1 From article "Pope Meets with Youth of Various Christian Confessions," Vatican City, 5/7/01 (VIS) reported by the Catholic Information Network, 5/9/01, N. 86

[Havoc]

As you cannot seem to grasp that a word can be an adjective that with continued use becomes a proper name, then you will no doubt lack the IQ to grasp that Isaiah prophesied that Christ's vicar would be a Pope.

Such language, I won't dignify it.. lol. I'm not talking about hijacked prophesies. I'm talking about real life misuse of words as a means of creating historical support. The term Pope as an office didn't exist till well after Theodosius himself. Yet the term is backward applied as though it was an office in use since the time of Christ practically - a lie. The office didn't exist. An office of Bishop of rome might have; but, the physical and fraudulent title Pope didn't come into being until the Roman rite started passing about it's schizmatic untruths. Any athority the Roman rite had dissappeared into the cloud of smoke that erupted over the exposure of isidore and gracian. The office not only didn't exist before the Roman rite, it came about through fraud. Like it or not, thems the facts. With fraud as a foundation, prophesy does come to mind; but, not one that would falsely baptize a lie into Godly right. I will have to claim ignorance of Isiaah ever using an italian word in describing the Messiah or any office he might create - come to think of it, I can't think of Isiaah prophesying that Christ would create any office. Must have some reading to do - care to cite. This could be fun. If nothing else, it would be a revelation that Isiaah spoke Italian.

[DManA]

Nice of you to take time out from complaining about all the Catholic bashing in SI to post this truly edifying article.

[Quester]

It is that woman who is depicted fighting the serpent. Thus, it is that passage which confirms that Mary *is* the woman prophesized in Genesis, and it her son who has slain the serpent.

The woman in Revelations is not depicted fighting the dragon, she is depicted fleeing from it's persecution.

And her son doesn't slay the dragon, he's snatched up into heaven as soon as he's born.

Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The last we see of the dragon (from this passage), he's going off to make war against the remnant of the woman's offspring.

Still think this is a depiction of the ever-virginal Mary of Catholicism ?

[Aliska]

Only this time the new Adam and Eve are victorious over the dragon.

Now we're back to that translation of Genesis. Just when I thought I had it right, somebody came along and said modern scripture scholarship made it his heel rather than hers or it or whatever (it's been awhile since I applied myself to that).

Since Mary's will and the church's will would seem to coincide in this particular matter, it doesn't seem to make all that much difference who the woman is, but that doesn't mean that I instantly accept what you said as truth just because three popes said so. It doesn't mean that I reject it either.

[Gamecock]

Oh, we were just ahead of our time and you know it! Want an example? How about your unholy allience with Islam?

[Gamecock]

He knows mother. </best British accent>

[Tantumergo]

"I will have to claim ignorance of Isiaah ever using an italian word in describing the Messiah or any office he might create"

Believe it or not he used the same word but in Hebrew. ;)

See if you can work out what "pope" means, what his function is, the signs of his office, and then read Isaiah again.

Matthew understood it - as would any Jewish readers of his gospel. There is a clue in Matt 1,1.

[Uri’el-2012]

A concise summation of the errors of Proestantism. The full article also discusses Freemasonry and other lies, including those of the Clintons, that permeate the world.

1 posted on 09/30/2003 10:32 AM MDT by Fifthmark

NAU Leviticus 19:16 'You shall not go about as a slanderer among your people, and you are not to act against the life of your neighbor; I am the LORD. 17 'You shall not hate your fellow countryman in your heart; you may surely reprove your neighbor, but shall not incur sin because of him. 18 'You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD.

NAU Matthew 5:41 "Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 "Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you. 43 "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.' 44 "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

NAU Matthew 19:17 And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." 18 Then he said to Him, "Which ones?" And Jesus said, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER; YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY; YOU SHALL NOT STEAL; YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS; 19 HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER; and YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

NAU Matthew 22:37 And He said to him, "'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' 38 "This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 "The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' 40 "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."

NAU Mark 12:29 Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD; 30 AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.' 31 "The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these."

NAU Romans 13:8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF." 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

NAU Galatians 5:13 For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF." 15 But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another. 16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.

NAU James 2:8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF," you are doing well.

Do I find love of neighbor in this article as commanded by YHVH and Y'shua?

a bondslave to the Christ

chuck <truth@YeshuaHaMashiach>

[Uri’el-2012]

bump

[Tantumergo]

Scott Hahn has written a book called "Hail Holy Queen".

He deals with the questions you have very well, and his scholarship is both very orthodox and up to date.

Its definitely worth a read if you have questions about our Lady and the biblical basis for her role.

[Conservative til I die]

Thank you for posting this Fifthmark. I posted something like this awhile back and it was pulled because I was being "hurtful" and "insensitive." Surprised it lasted this long. Can't wait to read the responses. Hope there's some nasty personal attacks.

[Conservative til I die]

Gee, a Protestant in denial over persecution by Protestants. I'm shocked and awed.

[Conservative til I die]

No fair, I've made it clear lately that I think Protestants are all heretics and some are blasphemers.

[Havoc]

She's dead. She has no role on earth at this point. As Ecclesiastes points out, anything pretending to be her is a fraud. I might add that Saul was put to death by the Lord for doing with a prophet what you guys claim to do with Mary - seek her counsel. Ignorance is bliss?

[Hermann the Cherusker]

I'll pray for you to take the bible more seriously and with faith. It sounds like your posting hatred toward protestants.

I take the Holy Scriptures very seriously.

Quote the verses from Jesus Christ. Only he has the power to set you free.

Okay.

"He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them: and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained." (St. John 20.21-23)

"Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say unto you: except you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood abideth in me: and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna and are dead. He that eateth this bread shall live for ever." (John 6.54-59)

"And now, Lord, thou knowest, that not for fleshly lust do I take my sister to wife, but only for the love of posterity, in which thy name may be blessed for ever and ever." (Tobit 8.9)

"(For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,) And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them. It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins." (2 Maccabees 12.44-46)

"Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid: for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed." (St. Luke 1.48)

"Take heed to yourselves and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the Church of God which he hath purchased with his own blood." (Acts 20.28)

"Therefore, brethren, stand fast: and hold the traditions, which you have learned, whether by word or by our epistle." (2 Thessalonians 2.14)

"And account the longsuffering of our Lord, salvation: as also our most dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, hath written to you: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction." (2 St. Peter 3.15-16)

"Abide in me: and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abide in the vine, so neither can you, unless you abide in me. I am the vine: you the branches. He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for without me you can do nothing. If any one abide not in me, he shall be cast forth as a branch and shall wither: and they shall gather him up and cast him into the fire: and he burneth." (St. John 15.4-6)

"And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican." (St. Matthew 18.17)

"But avoid foolish questions and genealogies and contentions and strivings about the law. For they are unprofitable and vain. A man that is a heretic, after the first and second admonition, avoid: Knowing that he that is such an one is subverted and sinneth, being condemned by his own judgment." (Titus 3.9-11)

[Hermann the Cherusker]

Gosh, what I heard is a Church with a ministerial Priesthood, an Altar, a ssacrifice, and seven Sacraments, all instituted by Christ.

The only rituals I've seen added are these bizarre altar calls, tent revivals, communion meals, holy-roller meetings, and the like, and that was all by Protestants. I suppose if one is not willing to believe the truth, they'll believe anything else instead.

[Hermann the Cherusker]

Actually, it sounds rather like Clinton and his Protestant "Christian" defenders.

[ksen]

No fair, I've made it clear lately that I think Protestants are all heretics and some are blasphemers.

That's true, you have. My apologies....