Published: September 30, 2003
Posted on 09/30/2003 4:10:35 AM PDT by Credo
Published: September 30, 2003
y The Associated Press
With two crucial meetings ahead that could determine whether the Episcopal Church splits over homosexuality, the leader of the church defended his support for an openly gay bishop yesterday in an interview with The Associated Press.
The leader, Presiding Bishop Frank T. Griswold, said he voted at the church's General Convention last month to confirm the gay clergyman, Bishop-elect V. Gene Robinson, because Episcopalians in New Hampshire had overwhelmingly chosen him in an election. Bishop Griswold also said Scripture did not condemn same-sex relationships, a position that conservatives vehemently reject.
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Bishop-elect Robinson has lived with his male partner for more than 13 years and worked in the New Hampshire Diocese for 15 years.
"I wasn't settling the question of sexuality," Bishop Griswold said in his office in Manhattan. "I was affirming the choice of a diocese."
Later, he said that in biblical times there was no understanding that homosexuality was a natural orientation and not a choice.
"Discrete acts of homosexuality" were condemned in the Bible because they were acts of lust instead of the "love, forgiveness, grace" of committed same-sex relationships, the bishop said.
"Homosexuality, as we understand it as an orientation, is not mentioned in the Bible," he added. "I think the confirmation of the bishop of New Hampshire is acknowledging what is already a reality in the life of the church and the larger society of which we are a part."
The comments were made at a critical time for his leadership of the 2.3-million-member church. Next week, the conservative American Anglican Council will gather more than 1,400 lay Episcopalians, bishops and other members of the clergy in Dallas to decide whether to break from the denomination over Bishop-elect Robinson.
On Oct. 15 and 16, Bishop Griswold will join fellow leaders of the world Anglican Communion at an emergency meeting in London in an effort to prevent the association from fracturing over the gay bishop and other issues related to homosexuality.
The Episcopal Church is the United States branch of the Anglican Communion, with 77 million members representing churches that trace their roots from the Church of England. The spiritual leader of the communion, the Most Rev. Rowan Williams, archbishop of Canterbury, summoned the other 37 church primates to London after several overseas bishops threatened to sever ties with the Americans. Archbishop Peter J. Akinola of Nigeria called electing Bishop-elect Robinson "a satanic attack on God's church."
Conservatives in the United States have asked Archbishop Williams to consider authorizing a separate Anglican province in North America. Bishop Griswold would not say whether he thought that the idea would be approved, but said he believed that it would require a vote by the General Convention of the American church, not a decision by Archbishop Williams, to authorize it.
"It would involve our own decision-making processes, our own constitution," the bishop added. "So most likely it would require action by the General Convention."
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More Pop Psychobabble from the Sufi Raman Presiding Bishop. Me thinks this is whistling past the graveyard.
Likewise, I am free to take the Lord's name in vain.
Just so I don't take any other god's name in vain.
And I can now carry on an adulterous affair outside of marriage.
Just so long as it is only with one mistress in a committed, loving relationship.
What a complete and utter fool.
Even Saint John Eudes tells us: 'The road to hell is paved with the skulls of bishops'. This is a take on Saint Athanasius' original statement: "The floor of hell is covered with the skulls of bishops." Both are a wake-up call to the bishops, priests and laity. Therefore let the shepherds beware. In fact, there is more to this statement than meets the eye. What the Saints are telling us is not only that the skulls of thousands of errant bishops will pave the floor of hell, some of whom may even be alive today, but that such bishops, resurrected to their eternal reward, that is, the place of burning and torment, the place of no respite, will appear decapitated, their heads having permanently left their bodies, as a mark that they did not think with right minds when governing the Church during their earthly lives. Woe to such bishops! And we must pray for our bishops all the more because of it.
Does this mean that he thinks God, who made all of us, did not understand?
Or is he saying that he believes God had no part in the writing of scripture?
So what? If the Church wasn't supposed to be able to determine that a Diocese was in error, there wouldn't be a mechanism to correct it.
Bishop Griswold also said Scripture did not condemn same-sex relationships
This is due to his belief that the Bible differentiates between short-term and long-term same-sex sexual relationships.
"I wasn't settling the question of sexuality," Bishop Griswold said in his office in Manhattan. "I was affirming the choice of a diocese."
There's an equivocation for you. The lesser tradition outweighs the greater.
Later, he said that in biblical times there was no understanding that homosexuality was a natural orientation and not a choice.
There's no such understanding now, either. The fact that so many people seem to think that this is a settled issue scientifically is a BIG LIE.
"Discrete acts of homosexuality" were condemned in the Bible because they were acts of lust instead of the "love, forgiveness, grace" of committed same-sex relationships, the bishop said.
Some passages (the townsmen coming after Lot's guests) could be interpreted this way. But to interpret all of them this way would mean that you'd have to think that long-term same-sex sexual relationships just came into being in modern times. I think that's ridiculous. What evidence is there for this?
"Homosexuality, as we understand it as an orientation, is not mentioned in the Bible," he added.
Who's we? If this is true, then perhaps our understanding is wrong, not the Bible's.
The Presiding Bishop's term is up at the next General Convention. The Church has done ill here. But I'm not giving up yet. New delegates are to be elected, and I'm betting that there's going to be a lot more attention paid to those elections than in the past.
The proponents of this action figured that this would go the way of ordination of women; some controversy, some complaint, some losses, and then onward. But being a woman is not a sin. But engaging in homosexual sexual acts is. There's a whole different basis here, which was completely misunderstood. This issue isn't going away.
Committed same-sex relationships cover about 1% of all homosex. Lets tear a church apart for a handful of people.
He ignores two thing: (1) that St. Paul clearly understood that homosexuality was a "natural orientation " in the sense that it was an observable phenomenon and (2) that it is unproved that homosexuality is uncontrollable. Robinson whole history shows that it is no more uncontrollable than alcoholism. This means that in order to swallow this, Griswold must have accepted the belief that every expression of human sexuality is licit provided it does not cause physical or psychological harm to others. But in order to do this, Griswold must abandon the whole of Christian tradition in favor of a modern belief that has no foundation in modern science.
--One needs to actually hold an office to accomplish things that matter.
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