The Holy Face of Jesus Christ as appeared on the Holy Eucharist

Syro-Malankara Catholic Church ^ | 5-5-2001 | Fr. Johnson Karoor

[Pahuanui]

I have no interest in discussion things with a dissimulator such as yourself.

I asked a question, to which you responded with some assertions that I then commented on. This resulted in a rather peculiar espisode on your part of accusing me of having somehow 'abused' and 'harassed' you.

If you are incapable of reasoned discourse, simply say so.

Go away and learn some manners.

You need to lay off the faux-indignation about things that haven't happened.

Don't respond to me again.

You presume to issue commands?

[Flying Circus]

Given the techniques at the time and the extremely limited number of artists, I find it not quite as amazing as perhaps you do.

The early church quickly grew to thousands and spread throughout the Roman empire carried by the apostles and disciples who knew Jesus. They knew what he looked like. Icons, not limited by geography or by artist, appear with very similar images depicting Jesus. The common thread between these people is the Church who preserves and passes on the teachings of Christ.

These were not limited numbers of artists. These were people throughout the middle eastern world.

It is inconclusive as to who, if anyone, is represented by that image.

As there anyone else in history who is recorded as having the combination of scourging, being crowned with thorns (multiple crowns actually, representing both king and jewish priest), and being nailed to the cross in crucifiction? But also, the face on the shroud is the same as the face on the icons! With this convergence, there is no doubt who is depicted on the shroud.

You still didn't answer as to why you find it hard to believe that an effort was not made to preserve a record of the face of Jesus that could have made it to this day.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

If you ask a catholic a question, you're bashing them.

You have to agree, no questions. :)

BigMack

[Flying Circus]

Correction: These were people throughout the middle eastern and Mediterranean world.

[.45MAN]

To those that believe, Nothing need be said. To the non-belivers nothing said will be believed..

[Pyro7480]

The same could be said of "sola scriptura." ;-)

Yours in Christ,

Pyro

[Pahuanui]

Given the techniques at the time and the extremely limited number of artists, I find it not quite as amazing as perhaps you do.

The early church quickly grew to thousands and spread throughout the Roman empire carried by the apostles and disciples who knew Jesus. They knew what he looked like.

That is not in dispute.

Icons, not limited by geography or by artist, appear with very similar images depicting Jesus. The common thread between these people is the Church who preserves and passes on the teachings of Christ.

These were not limited numbers of artists. These were people throughout the middle eastern world.

Let me be more precise.

The occupation of artist, or perhaps more properly, artisan, was limited to an extremely limited number of people from the general population, and the techniques of paleochristian and early Christian art exhibited far less precision than their classical predecessors, rejecting the ideals of perfection in form and technique, thus making it much more likely that images would be far more uniform and similar than otherwise.

People were not represented as images of physical perfection or in exacting detail. Rather their appearance was nondescript; their function was to represent a historical or biblical character in a symbolic tableau from the Old or New Testament. Consequently, certain facial features, uplifted hands and eyes, etc... became very common elements in such art.

Further, due to much of the art coming from monastaries, with innovation not being a particular characteristic of such environments, uniformity can be expected.

It is inconclusive as to who, if anyone, is represented by that image.

As there anyone else in history who is recorded as having the combination of scourging, being crowned with thorns (multiple crowns actually, representing both king and jewish priest), and being nailed to the cross in crucifiction?

That does not, however, confirm the veracity of the shroud and who it may or may not represent.

But also, the face on the shroud is the same as the face on the icons! With this convergence, there is no doubt who is depicted on the shroud.

There is a great deal of doubt, and the fact that it resembles some icons can also support the contention that is a forgery.

You still didn't answer as to why you find it hard to believe that an effort was not made to preserve a record of the face of Jesus that could have made it to this day.

I'm certain that an effort could have been made, but I am not certain in the least that it met with any success.

[Aquinasfan]

That assumes rather much, as none of the artists who created those images ever laid eyes on him

How did the artist create the image on the Shroud of Turin? The hundreds of scientists who have studied the Shroud for years would like to know.

[Cap'n Crunch]

What an awesome God we serve. How little we love Him.

[Aquinasfan]

Thanks for the post. I wasn't aware of this apparent miracle.

[Hermann the Cherusker]

Don't respond to me again.

You presume to issue commands?

Yes, I presume to issue commands.

Moderator, I've informed Pahuanui that I do not wish to have further interaction with him here. Please tell him to stop bothering me.

[dansangel]

Very well stated.

[Hermann the Cherusker]

He did not ask a question. He ridiculed the post.

[Pahuanui]

If you ask a catholic a question, you're bashing them.

Or abusing them, according to the thinner-skinned ones, it would seem.

You have to agree, no questions. :)

A fine, long-standing tradition ;-)

[Barnacle]

LOL

[GirlShortstop]

LOL

LOL... I get it  :-)

[Barnacle]

?;^)

[pgkdan]

Bump

[Northern Yankee]

Blessings to you, my friend!

Off to teach Rel. Ed. (First Class...)

What a story to celebrate tonight!

[NYer]

It is inconclusive as to who, if anyone, is represented by that image.

The following historical profile is provided by the Shroud of Turin Story.

What did Jesus look like? Amazingly, there is no description of Him in the New Testament or in any contemporary source.  Yet, in hundreds of icons, paintings, mosaics, drawings and coins, there is a common quality that enables us to identify Jesus in works of art. Shroud scholar and historian Ian Wilson theorizes that a common set of facial characteristics became the norm following the discovery of the Edessa Cloth concealed in the city's walls in 544 CE. 

Apparent Shroud-inspired images of Christ are noticeable on coins struck in 692 CE during the reign of the Byzantine emperor Justinian II. The distinctive front-facing appearance of Jesus on the Shroud is also found on numerous icons, mosaics and frescos from the sixth century on. The most startling example is the Christ Pantocrator icon at Saint Catherine's Monastery, reliably dated to 550 CE. 

Computerized overlay of the Shroud of Turin facial image and the Christ Pantocrator icon from St. Catherine's Monastery (550 CE). Images were scaled to the same size and shifted horizontally and vertically for alignment. No changes were made in the vertical to horizontal ratios.

Christ Pantocrator, c. 1200 from dome of Church at Cefalu, Sicily. 

In the 1930's, French Shroud scholar Paul Vignon described a series of common characteristics visible in many early artistic depictions of Jesus. The Vignon marking, as they are known, all appear on the Shroud suggesting that it is the source of later pictures of Jesus.
 

• A square U-shape  between the eyebrows. 
• A downward pointing triangle or V-shape just below the U-shape, on the bridge of the nose.
• Two wisps of hair going downward and then to the right.
• A raised right eyebrow. 
• Large, seemingly "owlish" eyes. This may be the result of coins placed over the eyes.
• An accent on the left cheek and an accent on the right cheek that is somewhat lower.
• A forked beard. Dr. Whanger (see below) has suggested that this may the result of a chin band tied around the head to keep the mouth closed.
• An enlarged left nostril. 
• An accent line below the nose and a dark line just below the lower lip. 
• A gap in the beard below the lower lip. 
• Hair on one side of the head that is shorter than on the other side.
  

Christ Pantocrator, c. 1100 from dome of Church at Daphni, near Athens. Note U at bridge of nose, triangle on nose, raised right eyebrow, uneven hair, owlish eyes. 

If indeed the Shroud was the source for many works of art including icons as early as 550 CE and Byzantine period coins struck during the time of Justinian II (685-711 CE), it is inconceivable that the Shroud is a medieval forgery.

Still in doubt? Read this book.

Review:

Reviewer: annalert from Houston, Texas After reading Antonacci's book, you may well conclude, as I did, that the Shroud of Turin was a gift from God in some ways intended specifically for those of us living in our times. Without today's sophisticated scientific equipment, much of the evidence imprinted on this ancient relic could not be observed, much less understood.

At first I wondered why an ATTORNEY was writing such a book. Then I recalled that, in spite of all the tacky lawyer jokes, it is attorneys who are trained to sift through available evidence and present it in a logical manner. Mark Antonacci has done just that - presented all the evidence in a wonderfully logical manner that even the non-scientific layman can understand. He could not have done a better job of putting the needed references and citations for anyone interested in further study.

In our world of today where we demand to see scientific proof of miracles, we can truly see the finger of God in the results of the scientific study of the Shroud. It is a gift for our times and an humbling experience. Forget what you THINK you know about the Shroud