Replies

Sorry folks ... I did a boo-boo in the course of posting this topic (my first one in that I am new to the Free Republic forum website) by hitting the "Submit" button three times in succession at the end of my post due to my thinking that my Internet Provider was on the blink. I sincerely apologize and I hope that the site administrator will have rectified the problem by removing the extra posts. Please use this current post with the most recent timestamp as the one in which to reply to. Thanks for your time and once again I sincerely apologize. Front 242

St. Paul is thought to have said he had the sitgmata.

I am reading the life of St. Gemma Galgani(1878-1903). She had the stigmata on the palms of her hands, her side, and on her head, supposedly from the crown of thorns. According to those who examined her there were wounds present every Thursday evening till Friday evening. They would bleed so profusely as to soak the sheets. By Saturday morning there would be absolutely no wounds present, just a tiny healed mark. I find the whole subject fascinating and puzzling. I alternate between belief and skepticism.
I would love to hear what some of our knowledgeable members of the forum have to say about the subject.

why is it that so many alleged stigmatists have "wounds" located in the center of their palms?

Because the stigmatics didn't know any better. They received the wounds they would recognize as authentic, based upon Crucifixes and other works of art.

SD

Why would Padre Pio have wounds in his palms, not in his wrists?

(I don't know how Catholic you are, so pardon me if I give some very elementary Catholic instruction.)

When Catholics pray, particularly Catholic mystics, they often focus intently on the five wounds of Christ. The stigmata are the result of profound empathy for the sufferings of Christ. If Padre Pio felt empathy for being nailed to the cross by the palms -- believing Christ was crucified in this manner -- it makes sense to me that the stigmata would appear there. Picture his befuddlement if the stigmata appeared on his wrists if he did not know that's where Christ was wounded!

Christ does often work with people where they are, rather than impose a truth they will not understand. Hence, he ASCENDED into Heaven, even though Heaven -- and this was something his disciples even knew -- isn't really "up." It was the symbolism of elevation that was significant. Likewise, he used mud and spit to heal the blind man. He didn't need to use mud and spit -- it was a little mumbo-jumbo from healers of his day -- but it made the blind man feel like he was being healed, and thus aided his faith.

To read later.

I've done very little research on the stigmata, and please excuse me if someone has already explained this: Jesus more than likely had the nails placed through his wrists, just like in the shroud. The reason is because that putting the nails through the hand will not support the upper body for any period of time. The flesh will tear and the body will fall. However, if the nails are put between the two arm bones at the wrist, the flesh will not tear and the body will stay in place. Sorry for the gross explanation, but this was apparently the "correct" way to crucify someone. The Romans had plenty of experience to do it the right way.

My point: to me it seems odd that similar "Christ" wounds would be in a place that Jesus more than likely did not have them. I am not saying that it is fake. I am saying that it seems odd that the wounds would be contarry to the truth as we know it to be.

To further elaborate that crucifictions happened that way; this is from the Quran (used simply as a way to show how some forms of crucifiction were done):
"Be sure I will cut off your hands and your feet on apposite sides, and I will cause you all to die on the cross."[Qur'ân 7:124]
This quite simply says that after their hands are cut off they will be hung on the cross. You can't put nails through hands that aren't there!

Also, here is a link to a very graphic explanation of what Jesus probably suffered. It covers the crucifixtion method of the Romans in more detail than you may want to know.
http://www.harpazo.net/crucify.html

Sorry, I may be a tad off subject, but wanted to lend some insight into the actual crucifiction method...as it is historically presented.

I understand the suggestions which you are making, about Padre Pio, and I would add the suggestion that his wounds may have been self-inflicted, but he may not have remembered doing so.

It is well known, in many religious traditions, that people in penetential practices can go into a trance. They can be praying, and mortifying themselves in the most extreme ways (such as those Hindus who swing from hooks in their flesh) but some of them remember nothing of it later. It is like they wake up, and they say that the last twelve hours passed like a brief dream, where they were feeling that their soul was happy in heaven. Anthropologists have written about this. In some ways, mystical states of mind can be similar in effects to drug use.

If Padre Pio felt inspired to pierce himself with the wounds he was seeing on a crucifix, he might have been unable to recapture these thoughts afterwards. I am only putting this forward as a suggestion.

reluctant ping

Firstly, please accept my apology if I am providing info that has already been offered, but I felt moved to respond to the post about Fr Sudac.

With regard to the cross on his forehead, Fr Sudac has already been subject to investigation at the Rome Gemelli clinic. After exhaustive medical tests (including surgery to attempt to close the wound), it was concluded that the cross was 'not of human origin', i.e. that it was formed in a way that could not be explained by medical science.

Fr Sudac would be the first person to urge prudence in this matter and is wary of excessive interest in the stigmata. Indeed, the cross on his forehead is now covered, as are the wounds on his wrists.

I did recently spend a week on retreat with Fr Sudac and was most impressed by his direct teaching, his dignified demeanour and his compassion for all of those with whom he comes into contact. Ultimately, he will be judged on the measure of his love and on the fruits of his mission, not on the presence (or absence) of the stigmata.

Sometimes the answers to our questions, are simple, and we don't need to look so hard. Why wouldnt Jesus appear to someone of "colour" not as "white" but as one of colour? Or maybe to someone who is Oriental, as Oriental etc.. Wouldn't it make more sense that God or his Angels etc.. appear as someone that would be of our culture or way to make us feel more comfortable? He may even speak to each of us in our own language? I had a miracle where Marie Rose Ferron, the stigmatist of Woonsocket, RI. came & spoke to me, I didn't even know who she was, but long story short, when I finally told someone, they asked me with much criticism & disbelief in their tone of voice, "did she speak to me in french or English?" I spoke the truth that she spoke in English and this person chalked me off as "lying" because Rose was french from Canada! That made sense to this person. Odd thing tho, how this person based believing my story on something as simple as whether Rose spoke to me in English or French as my thought later became, why would she speak to me in French, as I would have never ever understood her, I dont know French! She would have never got my attention that way! The same goes, I think, for stigmatists and their wounds.. Someone once told me God won't give you more than you can handle.. And noone ever can see God for his light is too powerful for anyone normal human being to bear. Well so arent his precious wounds! He was beaten far worst than any "criminal" had been in those days as an example. Remember, Pilate originally just wanted him beaten badly hoping that would appease the people to avoid putting him on the cross, because he didnt want to make a decision. His wife had haunting dreams & warned him not to put this man on the cross! So, He was beaten nearly to death with skin & tissue torn to bone! He was mocked so horribly and tortured so cruelly that no normal man would have been able to bear such treatment! You would have died of shock, horror and pain! I believe the reason why God allows stigmatism to happen on the people he did in the areas he did (as many have it just slightly different) is because of how God wants to "touch" the people that do view or experience it. We most certainly couldnt bear the full weight of his cross or his beatings for we can never be Jesus! You could also ask why some stigmatists, only get little "red, Puffy" spots where his wounds were and they only bleed slightly and why others like Therese Neumann suffered it so badly, profusely, and profound! She even bled through her eyes, yet I dont remember hearing a story of our Lord bleeding through his eyes and her pictures look so unbelievable. But just because I didnt hear or read of such a story, doesn't make it not true. Jesus was punched in the face, they shoved cruelly the thorns on his head so did it puncture his eyes, did his blood vessels break from the beatings etc.? I think our father has his stigmatics with different styled wounds for his own good reasons. Maybe his faithful servent has a weak left lung or right lung so he has the wound slightly different, it doesnt change Gods message or calling does it? Maybe God puts the wounds in the hands because so many pictures potrayed Jesus as having it in his hands, so to reach many of his children whom dont know him, he puts it where they can relate to it.. God knows his reasons, but his message & calling will always be the same! It's trully sad there are fakes out there who'd go at lengths for attention even betraying our trust when it comes to religion & God, but we must keep in mind what God said, "You will know me by my works" and you will also know I "false" prophet or person by this... God reveals the fakes in time.. It's the whole picture you must view of the person you are asking about, not just a small part. Padre Pio never waivered from his goodness & holiness or from the messages of God, that's how you know he was a real stigmatic & Saint! He always pointed to God and not himself! Those wounds, were as God intended, for his greater purpose to reach as many as he could. Some people wouldn't be able to handle viewing Therese Neuman as it may be too scary! Those people needed Padre Pios type of wounds to bring them closer to Jesus. God knows what we can handle, and what attracts whom, and I just believe he does accordingly. May God Bless you and all who read this.

What is the point or reason for the stigmata in the first place? Why would God allow this to happen to one of His children?

The Stigmata of St. Francis of Assisi [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]

Mystical Stigmata
Padre Pio's Secret: His Shoulder Wound
What is the Stigmata? [Ecumenical]
Details of first investigation into Padre Pio’s stigmata revealed [Catholic Caucus]
The Stigmata of St. Francis of Assisi
St. Francis of Assisi -- The Wounds of Christ
Message, holiness of saint with stigmata more relevant now than ever, 'Padre Pio' author says
Update on Little Marie Rose Ferron(1936) stigmata of the Catholic Faith
Saint Gemma Galgani
The Miracle Of Damascus[Our Lady Of Soufanieh]- APPROVED By Catholic And Orthodox Bishops