Posted on 08/10/2003 10:39:37 AM PDT by StAthanasiustheGreat
When I returned home from Northwestern this summer, I discovered that my home parish (Milwaukee, WI) is using a glass chalice as the sacred vessel for the Eucharist. If I am not mistaken, that is incorrect, and invalidates the change from wine to the Blood of Christ. I wish to do something about that. I have collected the necessary documentation needed (GIRM: 327-330, Norms for the Distribution of Communion under both kinds: 34, Official Interpretation of the GIRM: 296, Adaptations of the GIRM for the USA: 326 & 329,Built of Living Stones: 164).
My next question is what is my next step? How should I put all this information together? Thanks
It does not invalidate the Consecration, but it is contrary to the GIRM.
Interestingly, for distribution under both species, glass cups are allowed.
Lol.
I've been to one with a pottery vessel and I doubt it had a gold lining in it. Have also seen the glass chalice used. Have also seen (it's been awhile) a metal one with burgundy and a silver lining. Maybe the silver lining is the keyword here :-).
I wouldn't care so long as it was a respectable vessel, but rules are rules, and I don't like them thumbing their noses at them. It *is* making a statement, unless it is done in ignorance. If it is done in ignorance . . . well best not go there.
Are some of these vessels gifts to the priests at their ordination do you think? I don't know who decides what to use at any particular mass. Does each priest have a favorite vessel to use?
Seems so. There are plenty of chalices around, and ought to be used. You have a new archbishop up there, Dolan, who would likely read a letter or an e-mail on the subject.
With some of them being presented as gifts, that complicates the situation.
When I was newly confirmed, they had a special, informal mass for the confirmees. They used altar bread, baked by the deacon's wife. She later explained that it had honey in it and only later did I realize that was a no no. Here I was hung up about receiving in the hand (permissible) rather than the recipe (not permissible).
You know what makes it so darn hard? Those people who did that are some of the nicest people I have met in the catholic church; I know if I needed them, they would be there for me.
However, I will note that in my parish, the wine and hosts are both consecrated in glass vessels, which does qualify. Before beginning an active campaign, you should start by making an appointment to meet with your parish priest. Bring your docmentation with you and ask him why glass has been chosen for use in your parish.
If you are not satisfied with his response, you should then address it with the Diocesan Office for Divine Worship and Liturgy.
Our parish when I still attended the New Mass was using glass bowls and pewter serving dishes that violated all 3 of these requirements. I wrote a letter to the pastor citing the relevant Vatican documents. No answer. I wrote a second letter asking why there was no answer to the first letter. No answer. I cornered the pastor after Mass, and he gave me some song-and-dance about the symbolism of the breaking of the bread being actualized by the process on the altar. I left and went to the Latin Mass and never looked back.
I should point out that the use of irregular vessels was leading to sacrilege at virtually every Mass. They would consecrate a large number of hosts in a big glass salad bowl, then at communion time they would take handfuls of hosts from the big glass bowl and put them into pewter bread trays that were used by the sqadron of EEMs.
This process inevitably led to serious sacrilege on a weekly basis. Imagine taking a big bag of potato chips and distributing them into a dozen bowls. What are the chances that you won't drop a few? Practically nil. The pewter dishes had low sides, making it easy to spill a few or even a whole dish worth.
A visiting priest wanted to put himself on the same level as the people, so he stood on the floor of the main section of the church rather than on the first step of the altar like the priest and the EEMs usually did. A small child going up to communion with his parent reached up and grabbed the side of a dish and spilled the entire contents on the floor.
These examples just serve to indicate that the rules had been put in place for good reasons, and that violating them is almost certainly going to lead to sacrilege. One rule of thumb would be to only attend Mass where everyone receives kneeling. Even if it is a New Mass, at least this will be a sign of reverence towards the presence of the Blessed Sacrament. If they won't do this much, you are probably participating in sacrileges of various sorts.
This is nonsense, since standing is a posture approved by the US Bishops AND Rome.
"Participating in sacrileges" is just your opinion and has no basis in fact.
It's true that this is just my opinion, but it does have a basis in fact. My experience over many years and the experiencers of many other church-goers tells me that if people are receiving communion standing and in the hand, already they are not showing proper respect to the Blessed Sacrament, and this will be reflected in other aspects of the liturgy as well.
The Church feels differently, which is why it permits reception of the Eucharist in ways with which you do not agree.
They were just poorly trained, that's all. I've always thought of the generation of Priests, Nuns, and assorted "experts" immediately following Vatican II here in America as attemping a "middle management takeover" of the Church. Yes, they are, through pride, trying to push the envelope and force change. They won many battles in the immediate circumstances, but are destined to lose the war. They have confused and instructed innocent laity incorrectly, the laity bear no faults when this happens.
Unauthorized changes, such as these in question, are the result of misunderstandings and attempted changes in the beliefs of the Church concerning the liturgy. Belief and adoration (worship) have a reciprocal relationship with each other. The nobility of the materials to be used for the vessels in the august and central reality of the eternal Divine Sacrifice being offered in adoration, point to and teach in a material way by way of symbolism it's Divine value and consequence. We are always to bring our best to God in worship, both individually and corporately.
These abuses, in and of themself, do not invalidate the confection of the respective species into the Body and Blood of Christ.
These are very intelligent people, and I believe they know better. generation of Priests, Nuns, and assorted "experts" immediately following Vatican II here in America as attemping a "middle management takeover" of the Church.
I suppose they see the vatican as moving too slowly. When you think of it, it's amazing that the vatican attempted to "open the windows" with the liturgical changes, etc. If the change comes from the highest leaders, I have no problem with any of it so long as it doesn't tinker with the basic things Christians have always believed.
I think the bottom line is that when you watch these innovators and know that they are thumbing their noses at the rules, you hesitate to trust them with other serious matters (learning the faith). If only they would seek to legalize the things they want to change rather than rebel against authority, I would feel a lot better about it. My common sense tells me that a lot of it shouldn't make that much difference anyway, except failing to follow the rules may be sinful for those who flout them. Some say, it doesn't matter, they are man-made rules. I don't see it that way because of the binding and loosing.
It's kind of like the meat on Friday business. I don't think practicing catholics dared defy that one. In the new climate, I think they might.
These abuses, in and of themself, do not invalidate the confection of the respective species into the Body and Blood of Christ.
Probably true, but I have wondered for a long time if graces are diminished for the people because of it.
It really doesn't answer your question, just speaks of noble materials.
I'll have to do some more digging.
I'll also post my GIRM links.
And the new G. I. R. M. without the Americn Diocese adapatations
Questions and Answers about the General Instructions for the Roman Missal
G. I. R. M. adapatations (American) approved by the Holy See
General Instruction of the Roman Missal [G. I. R. M.]
Bishop: "Let chaos storm! When will it stop, change after change in liturgy? Never!"
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