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Calvinism- False Doctrines of the "Pope" of Geneva
http://www.biblelife.org/calvinism.htm ^ | Bible Life Ministries

Posted on 08/07/2003 10:48:07 PM PDT by Cvengr

One must first study the man, John Calvin, in order to understand the theology that has come to be called Calvinism. Calvin was born July 10, 1509, in Picardy at Noyon, France to devout Roman Catholic parents as Jean Chauvin and died at Geneva, May 27, 1564, at age 54. The family name, spelled in many ways, was Cauvin, latinized according to the custom of the age as Calvinus. For some unknown reason John is commonly called Maître Jean C. His mother, Jeanne Le Franc, born in the Roman Catholic Diocese of Cambrai, is mentioned as "beautiful and devout." She took her little son to various shrines and brought him up a good Catholic. John was baptized in the Roman Catholic Church as an infant. On the father's side, his ancestors were seafaring men. His grandfather settled at Pont l'Evêque near Paris, and had two sons who became locksmiths. The third, Gerard, became procurator at Noyon and had four sons and two daughters. John Calvin's father, Gerard, an attorney, had purchased the freedom of the City of Noyon where he practiced civil and canon law. Gerard's four sons were made clerics and held benefices at a tender age. John was given one when a boy of twelve. He became Curé of Saint-Martin de Marteville in the Vermandois in 1527 and of Pont l'Eveque in 1529. Three of the boys attended the local Collège des Capettes, and there John proved himself an apt scholar.

Calvin's formal education was complete in 1527 when he was eighteen. He drifted from his Roman Catholic faith to become a humanist and a reformer, according to the Catholics. The "sudden conversion" to a spiritual life in 1529 could possibly be interpreted as his becoming saved, but throughout his life he counted on his Roman Catholic infant baptism as the basis of his regeneration.

John Calvin studied the voluminous writings of Saint Augustine, the Roman Catholic Bishop of Hippo (354-430 AD), much more so than those of Martin Luther, his contemporary. Calvin is continually praising Augustine's work with numerous references and quotations. Augustine was greatly influenced by the Gnostics, an early Christian sect, whose doctrine was heretical. Gnostics believed that mankind was wholly evil and some sects even renounced marriage and procreation. They also believed in two gods, one evil and one good. Their teachings are believed to have influenced Saint Augustine in the development of his theology of the "total depravity" of mankind and his concept of God. For nine years Saint Augustine adhered to Manichaeism, a Persian dualistic philosophy proclaimed by Mani (216-276? AD) in southern Babylonia (Iraq) that taught a doctrine of "total depravity" and the claim that they were the "elect." Augustine then turned to skepticism and was attracted to the philosophy of Neoplatonism. He blended these beliefs with his later Gnostic and Christian teachings. Augustine's prolific writings were more strongly biased by his previously obtained theology than on his detailed study of the Christian Scriptures. He used Christian Scripture out of context when words or phrases could be adapted to match his theology. Augustine's teachings were in turn passed on to John Calvin through his extensive study of Augustine's writings. It is very easy to follow the trail of John Calvin's theology from the pagan religion of Mani in Babylonia to Saint Augustine and into his own writings in France and Geneva that distort the Word of God. Calvin's false doctrine came directly from Augustine.

Calvin's Book Supercedes the Bible

Calvin's famous letter to King Francis I was dated August 23, 1535. It served as a prologue to his book, Institutes of the Christian Religion, the first edition of which was written in March 1536, not in French but in Latin. Calvin's apology for lecturing the king was displayed as placards posted all over the realm denouncing the Protestants as rebels. King Francis I did not read these pages, but if he had done so he would have discovered in them a plea not for toleration, which Calvin utterly scorned, but for doing away with Catholicism in favor of the new gospel. "There could be only one true Church; therefore, kings ought to make an utter end of popery," said the young theologian. The second edition of Calvin's Institutes was written in 1539; the first French translation in 1541; the final Latin, as revised by its author, in 1559; but that in common use, dated 1560, has additions by his disciples.

We know little of Calvin's previous activities, but because of a war between King Charles V and King Francis I, he settled his family affairs and reached Bale by way of Geneva in July 1536. He persuaded two of his brothers and two sisters to accept the Reformed views he had adopted and took them with him. At Geneva the Swiss preacher Fare, then looking for help with his propaganda, besought Calvin with such vehemence to stay and teach his theologies that, as Calvin himself relates, he was terrified into submission. As a student, recluse and new to public responsibilities, he may well have hesitated before plunging into the troubled waters of Geneva, then at their stormiest period.

Calvin had not introduced the legislative articles of Geneva; however, it was mainly by his influence that in January 1537, the articles were approved which insisted on communion four times a year, set spies on delinquents, established a moral censorship, and punished the unruly with excommunication. There was to be a children's catechism, which he drew up. The articles caused a dispute, and the city became divided into "jurants" who swore an oath to the articles and "nonjurors" who would not accept them. Questions had arisen with Berne concerning the points of major dispute, but Calvin made the claim in Lausanne for the freedom of Geneva. Discourse ensued in Geneva, where the opposition became more obstinate. In 1538 the council exiled Farel, Calvin, and the blind evangelist, Couraud from Geneva.

Calvin complained of his poverty and ill health, but these did not prevent him from marrying Idelette de Bure, the widow of an Anabaptist whom he had converted. Nothing more is known of this lady except that she bore him a son who died almost at birth in 1542 and that her own death took place in 1549.

Calvin's Reign of Terror

After some negotiation, Ami Perrin, commissioner for Geneva, persuaded Calvin to return. He did so, though unwillingly, on September 13, 1541. His entry was modest. Geneva was a church-city-state of 15,000 people, and the church constitution now recognized "pastors, doctors, elders and deacons," but the supreme power was given to the magistrate, John Calvin. In November 1552, the Council declared Calvin's Institutes to be a "holy doctrine which no man might speak against." Thus the State issued dogmatic decrees, the force of which had been anticipated earlier, as when Jacques Gruet, a known opponent of Calvin, was arrested, tortured for a month and beheaded on July 26, 1547, for placing a letter in Calvin's pulpit calling him a hypocrite. Gruet's book was later found and burned along with his house while his wife was thrown out into the street to watch. Gruet's death was more highly criticized by far than the banishment of Castellio or the penalties inflicted on Bolsec -- moderate men opposed to extreme views in discipline and doctrine, who fell under suspicion as reactionary. Calvin did not shrink from his self-appointed task. Within five years fifty-eight sentences of death and seventy-six of exile, besides numerous committals of the most eminent citizens to prison, took place in Geneva. The iron yoke could not be shaken off. In 1555, under Ami Perrin, a revolt was attempted. No blood was shed, but Perrin lost the day, and Calvin's theocracy triumphed. John Calvin had secured his grip on Geneva by defeating the very man, Ami Perrin, commissioner of Geneva, who had invited him there.

Calvin forced the citizens of Geneva to attend church services under a heavy threat of punishment. Since Calvinism falsely teaches that God forces the elect to believe, it is no wonder that Calvin thought he could also force the citizens of Geneva to all become the elect. Not becoming one of the elect was punishable by death or expulsion from Geneva. Calvin exercised forced regeneration on the citizens of Geneva because that is what his theology teaches.

Michael Servetus, a Spaniard, a physician, a scientist and a Bible scholar was born in Villanova in 1511. He was credited with the discovery of the pulmonary circulation of the blood from the right chamber of the heart through the lungs and back to the left chamber of the heart. He was Calvin's longtime friend in their earlier resistance against the Roman Catholic Church. Servetus, while living in Vienne (historic city in southeastern France), angered Calvin by returning a copy of Calvin's writings, Institutes, with critical comments in the margins. Servetus was arrested by the Roman Catholic Authorities on April 4 but escaped on April 7, 1553. He traveled to Geneva where he attended Calvin's Sunday preaching service on August 13. Calvin promptly had Servetus arrested and charged with heresy for his disagreement with Calvin's theology. The thirty-eight official charges included rejection of the Trinity and infant baptism. Servetus was correct in challenging Calvin's false teaching about infant baptism leading to salvation, but he was heretical in his rejection of the doctrine of the Trinity. Servetus pleaded to be beheaded instead of the more brutal method of burning at the stake, but Calvin and the city council refused the quicker death method. Other Protestant churches throughout Switzerland advised Calvin that Servetus be condemned but not executed. Calvin ignored their pleas and Servetus was burned at the stake on October 27, 1553. Servetus was screaming as he was literally baked alive from the feet upward and suffered the heat of the flames for 30 minutes before finally succumbing to one of the most painful and brutal death methods possible. Servetus had written a theology book, a copy of which Calvin had strapped to the chest of Servetus. The flames from the burning book rose against Servetus' face as he screamed in agony.

John Calvin was proud of his killing of Servetus, bragging and celebrating. Many theological and state leaders criticized Calvin for the unwarranted killing of Servetus, but it fell on deaf ears as Calvin advised others to do the same. Calvin wrote much in following years in a continual attempt to justify his burning of Servetus. Some people claim Calvin favored beheading, but this does not fit charges of heresy for which the punishment as written by Calvin earlier was to be burning at the stake. Calvin had made a vow years earlier that Servetus would never leave Geneva alive if he were ever captured, and Calvin held true to his pledge.

Another victim of Calvin's fiery zeal was Gentile of an Italian sect in Geneva, which also numbered among its adherents Alciati and Gribaldo. More or less Unitarian in their views, they were required to sign a confession drawn up by Calvin in 1558. Gentile signed it reluctantly, but in the upshot he was condemned and imprisoned as a perjurer. He escaped only to be twice incarcerated at Berne where, in 1566, he was beheaded. Calvin also had twenty women burned at the stake after accusing them of causing a plague that had swept through Geneva in 1545.

The citizens of Geneva hated John Calvin as he clearly stated. In 1554 Calvin wrote "Dogs bark at me on all sides. Everywhere I am saluted with the name of 'heretic,' and all the calumnies that can possibly be invented are heaped upon me; in a word, the enemies among my own flock attack me with greater bitterness than my declared enemies among the papists." Calvin, quoted in Schaff, History, volume 8, page 496.

John Calvin had no love, no compassion, no patience and no tolerance for those who did not believe his Institutes. Criticism of Calvin's Institutes was considered heresy for which the sentence was death by burning at the stake. To his dying day Calvin preached and taught from his works. By no means an aged man, he was worn out in these frequent controversies. On April 25, 1564, he made his will, leaving 225 French crowns, of which he bequeathed ten to his college, ten to the poor, and the remainder to his nephews and nieces. His last letter was addressed to Farel. He was buried without pomp in a spot which is not now ascertainable. In the year 1900 a monument of expiation was erected to Servetus in the Place Champel. Geneva has long since ceased to be the head of Calvinism.

John Calvin's murder of people who held different doctrinal views, his failure to acknowledge or repent from his sins, his incomplete gospel, his placing of his own writings above the Bible, his distortion of God and the Scriptures, and his dependence upon infant baptism places into question his salvation. In all of his writings is not found a clear declaration of his salvation by faith in the birth, life, crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. Calvin was a cruel, murderous, tyrant who considered himself to be the pope of Geneva. The Bible never advocates harming an individual due to his unbelief or lack of understanding. Jesus taught to "turn the other cheek" instead. None of the Apostles taught action against unbelievers but instead taught the believer to seek them out to present the gospel in love.

Mark 16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature."

John Calvin showed no signs of being a regenerate man. He became more murderous and cruel during his rule in Geneva. He showed no inclination to be conformed to the image of Christ as described in Scripture for those who have been saved. Notice Romans 8:29 below says we are "predestined to be conformed to His Son" and does not say we are predestined to be saved as taught by Calvin.

Romans 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined [to] [be] conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

One should not have to study the works of John Calvin but should study his life first in order to arrive at the conclusion that he was an ungodly man who could only produce a distorted doctrine that opposes the true teachings of Scripture. Calvin's actions were directly opposed to the teachings of Jesus and His Apostles.

Matthew 10:14 "And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet."

James 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. 18 Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

1 John 2:6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

Calvin's Margin Notes Supercede Scriptural Text

Calvin's theology could not be ascertained by the typical student of the Bible without the external study of Calvin's Institutes. Therefore, Calvin wrote commentary notes in the margin of the Bible to be used as the interpretation of the Scripture. A present day review of these margin notes shows they present doctrine that is not supported by the text. This commentary Bible with margin notes came to be known as the Geneva Bible. Theodore de Beza (1519-1605) was the Protestant Reformer who succeeded John Calvin. Beza published the Geneva Bible in English between 1560 and 1611. William Whittingham, who was married to John Calvin's sister, is believed to have assisted by translating most of the New Testament. He has been accused of having a theological bias and making other random changes in the translation. The source manuscripts for the work appears to have been the Textus Receptus and other Byzantine Greek manuscripts. The most disturbing feature of the Geneva Bible was the extensive commentary notes placed in the margins written by John Calvin, John Knox, Miles Coverdale, William Whittingham, Theodore Beza and Anthony Gilby. The marginal notes give an allegorical or philosophical explanation of Scripture rather than a literal explanation of the text. The Roman Catholic Church was enraged by the notes because they deemed the act of confession of sin to men, the Catholic Bishops, as unjustified by Holy Scripture. Calvin can be congratulated for at least getting that doctrine correct.

The Geneva Bible and the doctrines of John Calvin spread across Europe as church leaders used the margin notes as the basis of their lectures and preaching. King James I (1566-1625) was opposed to Calvinistic Presbyterianism and some claim he was infuriated by the Geneva Bible because the marginal notes allowed disobedience to the King. This claim can be largely dismissed because Calvin ruled as "King" of Geneva and allowed absolutely no disobedience. King James was requested by Dr. John Reynolds of the Puritans in the famous Hampton Court Conference to authorize the printing of a new Bible without the marginal notes. King James agreed. He authorized work to begin on the new Bible in 1604 with a team of fifty-four theologians and scholars, and it was printed in 1611. The Bible was to be a new translation from the Greek. The King James Version of the Bible was prepared from the Textus Receptus as well as many of the other 5,000 Greek manuscripts. It is known as the 1611 Authorized King James Version and held by many as the only "Inspired Word of God."

The Dutch Church convened the Synod of Dordrecht in 1610 to resolve the dispute between Remonstrants (followers of Jacob Arminius) and the Reformed Church (followers of John Calvin) concerning the correct interpretation of the Bible. In the Reformed Churches of the Netherlands, Jacob Arminius began to teach doctrines contrary to the Reformed faith. The Remonstrants drew up five statements of doctrine in which they set forth their own views. The Calvinists answered the Five Points of the Arminians with their own, which has come to be known as the Five Points of Calvinism. The approval of the Calvinist position was sealed by a packed prejudiced Synod before it began, and the Calvinists relished the victory by murdering many of their opponents as they fled for their lives. This appeared to be a great victory for Calvinism at the time, but it has since been shown to have been the high point in their theological domination. Calvinism has continued to decline over the centuries because John Calvin's technique of terror is no longer allowed for the spread of his theology.

Jesus nor any of the Apostles raised a finger against those who disagreed with them, but Calvinists continued to use the sword, beheading axe and burning at the stake as methods to eliminate any opposition well after the passing of John Calvin. Charles I succeeded King James in England. The Calvinists gained control of the English Parliament and waged a civil war against the king. They abolished episcopacy, ejected two thousand royalist ministers, summoned the Westminister Assembly, executed Archbishop Laud, and eventually executed the King himself in 1649.

Calvin's Sovereignty Doctrine Distorts the Attributes of God

Calvinists are proud to proclaim, "The basic principle of Calvinism is the sovereignty of God." This doctrine allowed John Calvin to misinterpret Scripture in any manner he desired in order to fit his Institutes theology. He simply claimed the sovereignty of God allowed it. God's other attributes such as love, justice, mercy and grace became irrelevant so long as sovereignty reigned. John Calvin's extreme definitions of sovereignty and sin (Total Depravity or Total Inability) laid the foundation for a religion that bears his name, Calvinism.

Certainly God is sovereign. However, John Calvin used sovereignty as an excuse to formulate doctrines which violated God's other attributes. Calvin's doctrines of Unconditional Election and Limited Atonement predestine much of humanity to eternal torment in violation of God's attributes of love, justice, mercy and grace. Doctrines which are correctly interpreted from Scripture will not violate any of God's attributes.

Calvinism has been called "the archenemy of soul-winning" and rightly so. John Calvin's false doctrine declares that some people are predestined by God from eternity past to spend eternity with Him by His sovereign grace while others are predestined to eternal torment. This doctrine causes one to question the need for presenting the gospel. If Calvinism were true, why bother? Those who have been predestined to salvation will be regenerated by God's unfailing sovereign will, and the others cannot be saved no matter how effectively one presents the gospel because they are not the elect.

But soul winning is not the major tragedy of Calvinism. Failure to present the gospel of Christ is the real problem. One can easily notice that Calvinists discuss and present Calvinism with the notion that they are presenting the gospel. They quote the writings of Calvin and other Calvinists and quote those Bible verses they feel are most supportive of Calvinism. The Bible is not taught directly and without bias. This is the reason John Calvin and his early followers prepared the Geneva Bible which contained Calvin's teachings written in the margins. Teaching was done from the margin notes in lieu of the Scriptural text. We will see in our study of Limited Atonement that Calvinism presents a false gospel.

Calvin's Predestination Doctrine Distorts the Character of God

Calvin's predestination doctrine teaches that God in eternity past established the course of all future events from the molestation of a child to a rocket trip to the moon. Calvin taught that God has decided in eternity past those persons who would spend eternity with Him and those who would endure eternal torment. This doctrine was not derived from the Bible, but was derived from the philosophical concepts called the immutability of God (unchangeable) and the impassability of God (unaffectable).

The pagan philosopher, Aristotle, was born in 384 BC and wrote a book he called, Metaphics. His reasoning concluded that "God can't feel and can't change." This God must be unaffected by anything and unalterable. He is unchanging for to do so would be a weakness and thus render Him less than the ultimate God. Aristotle's God cannot love, cannot suffer and cannot be influenced. Saint Augustine incorporated this philosophy from Plato, Plotinus and Aristotle into his writings which were transferred to John Calvin. Thus, Calvin's doctrine of predestination was born.

We know from Scripture that God does change His mind. God does suffer. God is influenced by prayer. God can be sorrowful and God does love. God changes His intended purpose as He chooses in response to the actions of man. Calvin's doctrine of predestination strips God of His character and is proven to be false by Scripture that shows God changing His mind in response to mankind's prayer or repentance.

Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

2 kings 20:1 In those days Hezekiah was sick and near death. And Isaiah the prophet, the son of Amoz, went to him and said to him, "Thus says the Lord: `Set your house in order, for you shall die, and not live.' " 2 Then he turned his face toward the wall, and prayed to the Lord, saying, 3 "Remember now, O Lord, I pray, how I have walked before You in truth and with a loyal heart, and have done [what] [was] good in Your sight." And Hezekiah wept bitterly. 4 And it happened, before Isaiah had gone out into the middle court, that the word of the Lord came to him, saying, 5 "Return and tell Hezekiah the leader of My people, `Thus says the Lord, the God of David your father: "I have heard your prayer, I have seen your tears; surely I will heal you. On the third day you shall go up to the house of the Lord. 6 "And I will add to your days fifteen years.

Genesis 6:5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every intent of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually. 6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the Lord said, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them."

Jonah 3:10 Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it.

The God of the Bible is certainly not the immutable, impassable God of Plato, Plotinus, Aristotle, Augustine and Calvin.

All of the great Christian fathers from the Apostles up to Martin Luther taught that the sovereign God placed free will in mankind to choose either good or evil. This free will is present and obvious in Scripture before the fall of Adam and thereafter. The heresies of Augustine were incorporated by Calvin into his doctrines. Was the Apostle Paul such a poor teacher that his followers didn't understand his teachings? Certainly not. All of the writings of Church leaders that came after Paul and before Augustine taught that mankind had a free will to either choose the gospel or reject it. The truth was presented in a beautiful expression of free will and the supportive work of the Holy Spirit by John Chrysostom (347-407 AD).

"God having placed good and evil in our power, has given us full freedom of choice; He does not keep back the unwilling, but embraces the willing." (Homilies on Genesis, 19.1)

"All is in God's power, but so that our free will is not lost. . . . It depends therefore on us and on Him. We must first chose the good, and then He adds what belongs to Him. He does not precede our willing, that our free will may not suffer. But when we have chosen, then He affords us much help. . . . It is ours to choose beforehand and to will, but God's to perfect and bring to the end." (On Hebrews Homily, 12)

John Calvin and his followers teach that God makes everything happen because of His sovereignty. This doctrine makes God the author of sin, which is blasphemy. God allows Satan and man to do things but does not make them do so. This is clearly presented in Scripture. God keep the Dispensation of Grace a mystery because Satan, his evil demons and people under his control (rulers of this age), would not have killed Jesus had they known about the Dispensation of Grace. In Jesus' death we become victorious over sin. We can now come into the Throne of Grace to live forever with God. The Dispensation of Grace was kept a mystery hidden by God in order to give us a way of salvation.

1 Corinthians 2:6-8 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden [wisdom] which God ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

We believe that salvation is by grace through faith based upon the redemptive work of our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus took upon Himself the sins of all mankind in His death on the cross, and His resurrection from the dead provides salvation to all who believe. All who receive the Lord Jesus Christ through faith are born again of the Holy Spirit and thereby become the children of God.

Calvinism encompasses many of the features which are characteristic of a Christian cult. Calvinist hold John Calvin too such a high esteem that his writings and teachings are studied and quoted in preference to Scripture. His teachings are used by Calvinists to interrupt Scripture rather than the sound doctrine of using Scripture to interrupt Scripture. John Calvin defined important doctrinal Bible words differently than the orthodox and historic Christian interruption. These erroneous definitions are needed to give logical support to Calvin's blasphemous doctrines. This technique is typical of cults such as Mormons who hold Joseph Smith in high esteem and base their doctrines on his writings. Calvinists are so indoctrinated with these false definitions that they cannot understand the opposition to their doctrines. Naturally Calvinists believe the false doctrines of John Calvin because they believe the false definitions of major doctrinal words. The human brain is easily tricked when one does not search diligently for the truth. Calvinists have typically taught from the margin notes in the Calvinist's Geneva Bible in preference to the Scriptural text. King James ordered the King James Version translation of the English Bible to be printed in order to rid the church of Calvin's margin notes. John Calvin's doctrines are an incomplete and inaccurate gospel which is not in agreement with the Holy Scriptures. This study of Calvinism will easily prove the doctrines of John Calvin to be unorthodox and contrary to the historic Christian Church. History of the New Testament Scriptures.

The Five Points of Calvinism which form the acrostic T-U-L-I-P will be shown here to distort and blaspheme the true attributes of God, the true nature of man and the Holy Scriptures.


TOPICS: Evangelical Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: anticalvinism; calvinism
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To: Revelation 911
That wasn't the point of my question.
21 posted on 08/08/2003 8:03:54 AM PDT by Wrigley
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To: Cvengr
This article makes a lot of accusations without much proof. It is a typical diatribe against Calvin and Calvinism. The arguements are tired, a maze of logical falacies, and lack serious scholarship. Servetus was recorgnized as a heretic by Protetstants and Cathloics and was punished according to the standards of the day. Read the primary sources and judge for yourself.
The following links may be helpful:
http://www.christianity.com/partner/Article_Display_Page/0,,PTID307086|CHID560462|CIID1415586,00.html
http://members.aol.com/mariostz/christian/index.html
22 posted on 08/08/2003 8:09:48 AM PDT by AZhardliner (Presbyterian Pastor)
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To: irishtenor
How about a slam against Augustine? Where are the footnotes or quotes? I agree with you.
23 posted on 08/08/2003 8:12:03 AM PDT by ThomasMore
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To: Cvengr
read later
24 posted on 08/08/2003 8:12:07 AM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian; the_doc
Bump
25 posted on 08/08/2003 8:33:00 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: Cvengr
I suspect many believers come to the Lord by initial studies made by Calvin. I also suspect that as with many 'religions' one can begin to worship false doctrines instead of God. When one follows false doctrines, one trait similar to drunkeness occurs.

Why would you "suspect "that? Unregenerate (and many regenerate men )hate having a sovereign God.

The doctrine of the reformation was Predestination and Election. As such Arminians are not even Protestants.

It is the belief of those that follow the doctrines of Grace that it is the carnal man that worships at his own altar of "free will" (and ye shall be as gods)

It is the fallen nature of man that desires superiority of his will over Gods.

Calvinists are saved by the grace of God, not a doctrine. It is when they have finished their baby bottle and have teeth that most come to the Gospel of Grace.

26 posted on 08/08/2003 8:40:24 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: irishtenor
The whole article is a slam on Calvin. Inflammatory wording is used throughout the article. This isn't history, it is a slam piece from someone with a grudge against Calvin and Calvinism

If you do not like the message shoot the messenger.Pathetic . They have no basis for the Arminian doctrine in scripture, so it is necessary to slander a man that taught it.

27 posted on 08/08/2003 8:42:40 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: dsc
I recall another unsavory individual, one who participated in many unjust arrests and at least one murder.

He was the Apostle Paul.

I guess we need to examine his works in the light of his unsavory past as well.

28 posted on 08/08/2003 8:44:22 AM PDT by jboot (Faith is not a work; swarming, however, is.)
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To: dsc
How do you describe burning people at the stake without using inflammatory wording?

Do you understand that 1) that was the practice of the day (to burn or kill heretics?) 2) Do you realize that had he come into a Catholic city he would have befelled the same fate?

Serveus was guilty of sedition. It was his plan to take over the city of Geneva and promote his apostate doctrine as the head of the government

The death of Servus was decided by the city officals , not Calvin

Servus was warned by Calvin of the danger of coming to Geneva before he came

One of the things I love is that God can and does use imperfect and sinful vessals to do His work.

I think of the murderer Moses and the murderer David as two clear examples.

29 posted on 08/08/2003 8:48:52 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: Revelation 911
it is, but you're a nuthook anyway :)
30 posted on 08/08/2003 9:23:30 AM PDT by Frumanchu (mene mene tekel upharsin)
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To: RnMomof7
(tongue in cheek)

Now, now Mom, let's be fair to David. He only ordered the hit on Urriah the Hittite... he didn't actually murder him. (tongue out of cheek) LOL!

31 posted on 08/08/2003 9:23:35 AM PDT by carton253
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To: jboot
"I guess we need to examine his works in the light of his unsavory past as well"

No, only acts performed after he became a believer would be pertinent.
32 posted on 08/08/2003 9:34:30 AM PDT by dsc
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To: RnMomof7
"Do you understand that"

Burn...inflamatory...that's a joke, son. Ah say, a joke.

"Serveus was guilty of sedition. It was his plan to take over the city of Geneva and promote his apostate doctrine as the head of the government"

That's the sort of information I was asking for.

"The death of Servus was decided by the city officals , not Calvin"

And that.

"One of the things I love is that God can and does use imperfect and sinful vessals to do His work."

Catholic and protestant alike, our God is an amazing God.

"I think of the murderer Moses"

Okay, you got me on that one. I can't remember a murder committed by Moses.
33 posted on 08/08/2003 9:41:07 AM PDT by dsc
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To: Cvengr
I didn't realize Calvin had actively participated in bringing numerous people to physical executions for disagreeing with Calvin's Institutes.

You need to study the history of that period. Every Christian felt that use of gov't force was justified in fighting evil and defending the Christian Faith. Calvin sent out missionaries even to Italy, where their capture was an instant death sentence.

Even if seemingly justified, surely there is something just as remarkable to publicly aire if Calvin was justified in strapping a book to a condemned man's chest and torturing him for 30 minutes while it burns before the victim burns to death. If not, then one must at least consider that perhaps Calvin was backslidden during this period.

Be very cautious about what you read about Servetus. Some anti-Calvinists (and anti-trinitians) have tried to turn him into a Christian saint. He wasn't. He was an anti-Christian heretic. And according to some things I've read (sorry I cant remember my source) Calvin did try to meet with him. And he tried to betray Calvin to the catholics. (since I cannot remember my source don't hold me on the last one.)

I would not believe any thing this article says. Simply because of it's wild accusations. Calvinism is a cult. Really Charles Spurgeon, Jonathan Edwards, were both calvinists. Today D James Kennedy, RC Sproul are calvinist, I believe. I would not say that either of them are cultists.

by the way I'm not a calvinist. I just get annoyed when people on both sides get carried away.

got to run to work bye.

34 posted on 08/08/2003 9:52:08 AM PDT by Sci Fi Guy
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To: irishtenor; RnMomof7; Wrigley; Calvinist_Dark_Lord
You should see some of the prophecies listed on this guy's website:

The left-wing liberal Democrat Party will win the Presidential election in 2004 and obtain majorities in both the US Senate and House of Representatives. The Democrat Party win may be delayed until the 2008 election, but conditions are falling into place for the win in 2004.

Talk about hedging your "prophetic" bets.

Woody.
35 posted on 08/08/2003 9:55:05 AM PDT by CCWoody (Recognize that all true Christians will be Calvinists in glory,...)
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To: drstevej
Do you serve white or red wine with barbequed poofster?

I believe you combine the two in order to have a nice pink wine with your poofster.

36 posted on 08/08/2003 9:57:24 AM PDT by ksen (HHD;FRM)
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To: P-Marlowe; drstevej
Did not Calvin teach that God through his irresistible grace forces the elect to believe?

I may be wrong, but I believe that Calvin taught that God, in His grace, removes our impediment to believe. So once that is removed, we WANT to believe. There is nothing forced.

37 posted on 08/08/2003 10:00:21 AM PDT by ksen (HHD;FRM)
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To: Frumanchu
it is, but you're a nuthook anyway :)

No soup for Fru !


38 posted on 08/08/2003 10:08:11 AM PDT by Revelation 911
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To: Cvengr
even if the reports exagerrate historical fact...

...you'll post them anyway.

Shoddy scholarship and a waste of time.

39 posted on 08/08/2003 10:13:27 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: AZhardliner; xzins
What wonderful links.

xzins, please read AZ's first link in Post #22 -- it speaks to the concept of "God's theater" that you and I talked about.

40 posted on 08/08/2003 10:28:43 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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