[Frumanchu]

The first 3 chapters of Romans clearly and utterly refute this idea. The basis of this idea is a belief that man is not as depraved as he really is, and that with proper stimulus, he will, of his own accord, seek God. This borders on Pelagianism

And of course answers suddenly run out when one asks how God can not know what 'stimulus' is required to bring each individual to faith (or if He does, why He doesn't provide it in every case).

[nobdysfool]

And of course answers suddenly run out when one asks how God can not know what 'stimulus' is required to bring each individual to faith (or if He does, why He doesn't provide it in every case).

Ah, but don't you know that God has already done so with every man, but they choose in contravention of God's stimulus. "Bruce Almighty", indeed....( /sarcasm )

[JohnnyM]

Ok, here is where I stumble with this whole idea of predestination. If we are all born sinners, as I believe we are, incapable of doing anything good, then how can a just God condemn sinners to eternal damnation, if they are acting according to a nature they had no choice in possessing. It would be like condemning a cat to Hell for not being a dog.

JM