Posted on 07/17/2003 9:53:46 AM PDT by Frumanchu
No, I'm not talking nonsense. It is a true statement by virtue of the laws of physics. If gravity were to cease, you and I would go flying off into space. It is a conditional statement of fact and the fact that it is a "natural impossibility" does not negate its factuality. More on "natural impossibility" in a second...
According to you Calviniststs, the people that Jesus was speaking to had a negative attitude towards the miracles because it was Gods perfect will that they respond negatively to the miracles. According to you Calvinists, the People of Tyre and Sidon were judged because it was God perfect will that they not repent and that they be judged. It was nothing in them, but it was what was in God. Therefore there was no "if" because the "if" that Jesus spoke of was a factual impossibility. That is dishonest. It could not be a true statement under any circumstances.
False, Marlowe. It could be a true statement if God had performed the miracles. Or is Jesus a liar?:)
There is a difference here to be noted. The situation is not one where the miracles were performed in Tyre and Sidon and they chose to ignore them, but rather that the miracles were never performed in the first place DESPITE the knowledge that performing them WOULD (not could) have brought about their repentance. The issue is not whether or not God was able to convince them with the miracles, but the fact that He knowingly withheld the means of salvation from those people.
Regardless, it comes back to the natural state of man. In his fallen state, he's going to choose against God. God doesn't have to put the suggestion in their heads...they sin all on their own. So, going back to your statement about "talking nonsense" regarding a "natural impossibility" the comparison is actually quite accurate.
In both examples (gravity and Tyre/Sidon), unless there is direct intervention on God's part (removal of gravity/performance of miracles) what is natural will occur (gravity will continue to hold us to the Earth/Tyre and Sidon will continue in their sinfulness and unrepentance). In neither case is the conditional statements proposed erroneous, invalid or dishonest. They are solidly grounded in fact.
Don't forget to use my custom "Sword Starter Kit" logo on the box :)
I love that picture. :-)
The Word...don't leave home without it!
It'd certainly get me into some good discussions with people... and probably a few arguments.
He absolutely had to know in concert with what He was deciding.You are absolutely correct. He decreed it. God states His objective in Rom 9:22-24.
Aren't you arguing from an unsubstantiated premise, namely that the aforementioned "cajones" exist in the first place?
I was giving him the benefit of the doubt, which is more than he's given me....
The gospel is not heard or understood by the unregenerate. it is simply noise to them. They do not want to hear it , they refuse it,it offends them and their rejection of it condemns them to hell
Besides we still are to follow the Great Commission. What does the realization of one's sinful nature do for the unregenerate?
The unregenerate do not believe they are sinners . They do not "sin " they make "mistakes" and that does not matter because they are better than their neighbor , and they are just "good enough" to go to heaven ..or they laugh and say they want to be in hell with their friends ..laughing themselves to the flames by their disbelief of the power or-of God or His wrath at the sin of men
Why would an unregenerate person ask Jesus to come into his heart and make a new creature in him? Considering such a request is blasphemy, many might be tempted to ask that. Instead, they simply need to exercise faith for salvation provided by God.
Indeed faith to salvation is a gift of God..But it not "simply" because not all men have saving faith given to them by God. How do we know that ? Look around you. To exercise that faith the man would have to seek God and desire the gift..and as you see and the bible tells us that NONE seeketh after God
This would violate His immutable nature.
Mal 3:6 For I [am] the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Num 23:19 God [is] not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do [it]? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
Jam 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
If my granddaughter is hungry I will feed her.
I know she will be hungry , that is no mystery.
But that is not what you said xzins
Here are your words
If God could have created the world differently (which He could have), then the world He did create is exactly as He wants it to be. Since this world is not through yet, then the eternal God could, because He is eternal/timeless, go back (our perspective) and make something be incorporated in the movie that hadn't yet been there.
That is God changing His mind before the end of the book Steve. It requires God to go and change something that he has already ordained, and a violation of Scripture as well as the nature of God
Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Act 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Hbr 6:17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed [it] by an oath:
But what needs to be realized is that if God inhabits eternity, then any decision that God makes NOW, he literally and actually made even before the foundation of the earth, because he is there NOW.
Thefore God can interact with us in time (now), while at the same time maintaining his eternal immutability and behold he changes not. Nothing has changed, even from the foundation of the earth.
He did, He does, and He will. And he knew, knows and will know what those decisions were, are and will be.
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