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Pope Again Reaches Out to Orthodox Church
Herald Tribune ^ | June 30, 2003

Posted on 06/30/2003 2:53:51 PM PDT by NYer

VATICAN CITY Pope John Paul II again reached out to the Orthodox Church on Sunday, saying his efforts at reconciliation weren't just "ecclesiastic courtesy" but a sign of his profound desire to unite the Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches.

John Paul made the comments during his regular appearance to pilgrims and tourists in St. Peter's Square. Later Sunday, he welcomed a delegation from the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople at a traditional Mass marking the feast day of St. Peter and St. Paul.

"The exchange of delegations between Rome and Constantinople, for the respective patron feasts, goes beyond just an act of ecclesiastic courtesy," the pontiff said. "It reflects the profound and rooted intention to re-establish the full communion between East and West."

John Paul has made improving relations with the Orthodox Church a hallmark of his nearly 25-year papacy, visiting several mostly Orthodox countries and expressing regret for the wrongs committed by the Catholic Church against Orthodox Christians.

Despite his efforts at healing the 1,000-year-old schism, he hasn't yet visited Russia because of objections from the Russian Orthodox Church.

During the Mass on Sunday, 42 new archbishops received the pallium, a band of white wool decorated with black crosses that symbolizes their bond with the Vatican. Two of the archbishops received the pallium in their home parishes; the rest took part in the Mass in St. Peter's Basilica.


TOPICS: Activism; Apologetics; Catholic; Current Events; Ecumenism; General Discusssion; History; Ministry/Outreach; Orthodox Christian; Religion & Culture; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholic; ecumenism; orthodox; pope; vatican
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To: MarMema
next time you feel inclined to worry about our Russian Orthodox Patriarch you can review some sites like this one.

Really? I didn't see anything about the Russian Patriarch there.

501 posted on 07/03/2003 12:08:31 PM PDT by Ethan Clive Osgoode
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
"Unlike the Germans, who were interested only in the quickest and most efficient means of mass extermination, the Catholic Ustashi, with priests and bishops participating and giving their blessing, took great pleasure from torturing before killing. Most of their victims were not shot but were strangled, drowned, burned, or stabbed to death.'"
502 posted on 07/03/2003 12:09:19 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: MarMema
Very well, at least it's clear now that you side with the muslims against the West. It's good to know who's an ally and who isn't.
503 posted on 07/03/2003 12:11:11 PM PDT by Ethan Clive Osgoode
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
Parallel to the onslaughts made against the Serbs, was the extermination of the Jews, which continued with a vengeance, and applauded by the Catholic Croatian press. Just as the terrorism had nearly reached its climax, the "Katolicki Tjednik", the organ of Catholic Action and specifically of Archbishop Saric of Sarajevo, published an article signed by the priest Franjo Kralik, entitled: "Why Are THE JEWS BEING PERSECUTED?" Among the items is the following text:

"The descendants of those who hated Jesus, who condemned him to death, who crucified him and immediately persecuted his disciples, are guilty of greater excesses than those of their forefathers. Greed is growing. The Jews who led Europe and the entire world to disaster -morally, culturally and economically-developed an appetite which nothing less than the world as a whole could satisfy.... Satan helped them to invent Socialism and Communism. Love has its limits. The movement for freeing the world from Jews is a movement for the renascence of human dignity. The all-wise and Almighty God is behind this movement."

504 posted on 07/03/2003 12:11:16 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
"Blessings upon the first national Croatian banner in Bosnia took place in the convent of Nazareth before the Sisters of Christ's precious Blood . . . near Banja Luka. The standard-bearer was Fra.Viktor Gutic. It so happened that Fra. Viktor Gutic was none other than the Ustashi prefect who, a month before, had ordered the "liquidation" of Serbian Orthodox Bishop Platon, of Banja Luka, with all the refinements of cruelty which have, heretofore, been described. Perhaps Christ's blood was cherished by the good sisters of Nazareth but the blood of Christians, such as the Serbian Orthodox was worth nothing to them.
505 posted on 07/03/2003 12:12:36 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
An excerpt from the letter written by imminent Croatian politician, Prvoslav Grizogono, which he addressed on February 8, 1942 to Archbishop Dr. Alojzije Stepinac: [quote]

"I am writing to you as a man to a man, as a Christian to a Christian. I have been meaning to do this for months hoping that the dreadful news from Croatia would cease so that I could collect my thoughts and write to you in peace.

For the last ten months Serbs have been killed and destroyed in Croatia in the most ruthless manner and milliards of their property is being destroyed. The blushes of shame and anger cover the faces of every honest Croat.

The slaughter of Serbs began from the very first day of the establishment of the Independent State of Croatia (Gospic, Gudovac, Bosanska Krajina, etc.) and has continued relentlessly to this very day. The horror is not only in the killing. The killing includes everybody, old men, women and children. With accompanying barbarian torture. These innocent Serbs have been impaled, fire has been lit on their bare chests they have been roasted alive, burned in their homes and churches while still living, covered with boiling water and then their skin peeled of and salt poured into their wounds, their eyes have been pulled out, their ears, noses and tongues cut off, the priests have had their beards and mustaches raised together with their sculls, their sex organs severed and put into their mouth, they have been tied to trucks and then dragged along the ground, nails have been pressed into their heads, their heads nailed to the floor, they have been thrown alive into wells and abysses and bombs thrown to them, iron nails have broken their heads, children thrown into flames, into boiling water, into lime kilns, their legs torn from them, their heads smashed against wall, broken their backs against rocks and tree stumps and many other horrible torture was perpetrated, such as normal people can hardly imagine. Their rivers Sava, Drava, the Danube and their tributaries have carried thousands and thousands of their corpses. Dead bodies have been found with the inscription: 'direction Belgrade-traveling to King Peter'.

In a boat which was found on the Sava river there was a heap of children's heads with the head of a woman (who could have been a head of one of the mothers of the children) with the inscription: 'Meat for the Jovanova Market in Belgrade.'

Horrifying is the case of Mileva Bozinic from Stanbandza whose child was removed from her womb. There was also the case of the roasted heads in Bosnia, the vessels full of Serbian blood, the cases of Serbs being forced to drink the warm blood of their slaughter kin. Countless women, girls and children, mothers in front of their children and children in front of their mothers were raped or else sent off to Ustashi camps to serve the Ustashi, rapes even took place on the altars of Orthodox churches. In the Petrinje county a son was forced to rape his own mother. The slaughter of the Serbs in the Glina Orthodox church and the murder of Serbs on the altar of the Kladusa church is without precedent in history. There are detailed and original accounts of all these horrors. Even the Germans and Italians were astounded by these crimes. They photographed a huge number of cases of such slaughter. The Germans are saying that the Croatians did this also during the 30-years War and that is why there has been a saying in Germany since then:

God save us from the plague, hunger and the Croats.

506 posted on 07/03/2003 12:15:02 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: MarMema
Is that all you're going to do, cut and paste stuff from who knows where?
507 posted on 07/03/2003 12:15:49 PM PDT by Ethan Clive Osgoode
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
Secondly, the Catholic church made use of all this to convert the surviving Serbs. And while the soil was still steaming from the innocent victims' blood, while groans shuttered the chests of the surviving victims, the priests, friars, nuns carried in one hand the Ustashi daggers and in the other their prayer books and rosaries. The whole of Srem is inundated with the leaflets written by bishop Aksamovic and printed in his printing shop in Djakovo, calling upon the Serbs to save their lives and property by converting to Catholicism. It was as if our church wanted to show that it could destroy souls just as the Ustashi authorities destroy bodies. It is an even greater blot on the Catholic church as at the same time many Orthodox churches, all the Orthodox monasteries have been confiscated, their property plundered as well as many historical treasures.
508 posted on 07/03/2003 12:16:26 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
It's all over the web and well-documented in official archives. But go ahead and use the famous RC response about the origin of the posted material being slanted. God will
educate you in due time, one way or the other.
509 posted on 07/03/2003 12:17:59 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
The most controversial issue in Croatia in 1997 was the publication of a Croatian translation of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. The publication was particularly damaging in so far as the preface contained no warning about the book's historical inaccuracy and antisemitic contents. Owing to considerable publicity in the media, according to the Zagreb Jewish community, the book remained on the bestseller lists for several months.

In 1997 the newspaper Narod, edited by the Catholic priest Ante Bakovic, published a number of articles depicting Jews as conspirators who control international industry, media and banking.

According to the Zagreb Jewish community (report dated March 1998), two Catholic churches (in Zagreb and Split) continue to be used to propagate Pavelic's ideology and his Ustasa movement. 'It has become common practice to hold services for Pavelic when followers of his political ideas get together.'

510 posted on 07/03/2003 12:24:53 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
It's good to know who's an ally and who isn't.

What is good is to be in a church which recognizes evil and protects against it when possible. A church which chooses Christ over powerlust and "westernization". Good luck with yours.

511 posted on 07/03/2003 12:28:49 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode; katnip; RussianConservative; RnMomof7; George W. Bush
Good to know where you stand.

And good to know where you stand as well.

"John Paul II watches and endorses by his presence the immorality of scantily dressed young artists performing at the Vatican in the Paul VI Room."

link from Seattle Catholic.

512 posted on 07/03/2003 12:41:13 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
What your point of article? That there are extremists in Orthodox ranks...yes, there are and many in Catholic ranks who believe in Jewish conspiracy....but in your hurry maybe you miss this part:

Orthodox Patriarch Alexy II has spoken out against the canonizations in unusually strong terms over the past year, stressing it would be impossible to canonize Ivan the Terrible, who ordered the deaths of several clergymen who were later sainted, and Rasputin, whose debauchery and dubious healing practices compromised the last imperial family of Tsar Nicholas II.

Which state blatently that Church is against all of this.

513 posted on 07/03/2003 12:47:15 PM PDT by RussianConservative (Hristos: the Light of the World)
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
Which basic charity...to leave you alone, yes...now leave us alone. We not try and steal your flock don't do damn same to us...I am sure it is wasted wish.
514 posted on 07/03/2003 12:48:28 PM PDT by RussianConservative (Hristos: the Light of the World)
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
Maybe you missed but most of Balkins clear of muslim rule, except where Catholics support NATO attack on Orthodox Christians....maybe you missed Crimean War when western Christians side with Islamics against Orthodox Christians. But then Catholics and West support Autoturk while he had orgies of exterminations against Aremnians, Assyrians and Anatolin Greeks.....but we not notice that or the Turkish exterminations in N.Cyprus....sure or the Sudenese exterminations of Orthodox in S.Sudan or the Eritrian exterminations of Ethiopian Orthodox...we'll ignore where stance of your all holy and might is/was on issues.
515 posted on 07/03/2003 12:51:46 PM PDT by RussianConservative (Hristos: the Light of the World)
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To: MarMema
Speaking of anti-semitism, Serbian Defense League says
In 1933 Judea conspired against Germans and now against Serbs when one Jew lies all Jews lie -- and all Jews lied about the Serbs Jewish conspiracy also indoctrinated the Serbian Orthodox Church... By using lies and their influence to turn world's powers against the Serbs, and by joining coalitions of Serb enemies, Jews transformed a civil war into genocide [...] Jews herd stupid Americans like cattle against one people after another and they sell weapons to the enemy to kill Americans in order to profit from spilled blood [...] FROM THE PROTOCOLS OF THE LEARNED ELDERS OF ZION -- "Throughout all Europe, and by means of relations with Europe, in other continents also, we must create ferments, discords and hostility. . . . if we allow the possibility of a general rising against us, we shall respond with the guns of America. . . ." [...] 1933 Jews world-wide declared war on Germany on behalf of German Jews; this time Jews world-wide committed genocide on behalf of the Zionist state of Israel... Because they are Jews, they united in U.S. Senate against Serbs [...]

516 posted on 07/03/2003 12:51:49 PM PDT by Ethan Clive Osgoode
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
Mongols rather than come to terms with the West.

You just show yourself for ignoramous you are....when we do stupid thing of ask bloody Catholics "brothers" for help against Mongols, your pope send us Lithuanians, Poles and Teutonics to conquer Kieven Russ from other side...maybe you heard of Alexander Nevski? He defeat two of your murderous armies while fighting Mongols....learn your own blood soaked history before lecturing morality which you lack.

517 posted on 07/03/2003 12:53:58 PM PDT by RussianConservative (Hristos: the Light of the World)
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To: RussianConservative
Which basic charity.

Ok, so you won't extend basic charity to Catholics, but you're willing to do so to KGB employees. Good to know where you stand as a Christian.

518 posted on 07/03/2003 12:55:34 PM PDT by Ethan Clive Osgoode
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To: RussianConservative; MarMema; RnMomof7
Thank you....I not sure if you meant sarcasm/joke or serious...

A little of each. Over the last few years, we've had a number of threads like these. In the some mean person (often me) posts the picture of the pope kissing and adoring the Koran. You got here a little late. We have progressed to the point where our Roman friends no longer deny that he did it, an ecumenical breakthrough if ever I saw one.

As our friends from the various Roman churches could attest, I have on many occasions pointed out how different this pope who claims a throne of Peter's is from Peter and the martyrs of the early church. Rather than offer a token sacrifice or to so much as bow their knees in obeisance to the Roman god-emperor as an exercise in a civic religion in which no one actually believed, they instead sacrificed their lives in testimony to Christ. Their hallowed testimony even to the point of cruel death is what established and built the early church and brought it to victory over the Roman empire.

How different this current pretender to Peter's legacy behaves from the ancient martyrs to whom all of us who are orthodox Christians may lay a spiritual claim. Except for this pope and his most deluded followers because they repudiate their own saints' practices and testimony. It is worth noting that not all the adherents of Rome's authority are willing to endorse this pope's actions, particularly his whoring after false gods or in kissing a Koran when those same Muslims are daily murdering and raping persecuted Christians in Arab lands, generally with the tacit approval of the Arab governments. This pope is a cowardly idolator and could hardly be further from the picture of devout conservative Roman orthodoxy that his sycophants paint him to be.
519 posted on 07/03/2003 12:57:19 PM PDT by George W. Bush
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
Which basic charity? Hmm? You avoid answer, which charity?
520 posted on 07/03/2003 12:58:08 PM PDT by RussianConservative (Hristos: the Light of the World)
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