Posted on 06/27/2003 11:31:19 AM PDT by Antoninus
Friends,
In light of recent national and international events, it should be clear to most of you that the Christian underpinnings of western civilization are being knocked out from under our feet. Recent acts of judicial fiat in both Canada and in our own country have made it abundantly clear that the "post-Christian" world envisioned by anti-Christian radicals for centuries now may be close at hand.
Rather than continuing to scratch and claw our own eyes out over our differences (which will not, by the way, be resolved on this forum) I suggest that we call a temporary truce. Nearly all of us have the same cultural values including an abhorrence for abortion, a desire to raise our children free from intrusive and pervasive immorality, a revulsion at the "gay" deathstyle, and a desire to express our religious convictions publicly without threat of punishment.
If we continue on our current trajectory, is there any doubt that Christians will be reduced to the status of second class citizens? There are already whiffs of persecution emanating from Canada and some European countries. Are you truly prepared to face this threat if it arrives here? Of course, there is something to be said for being imprisoned and stripped of your family and possessions for expressing your Christian beliefs. But how many of us in our soft communities are ready to face the same trials that routinely confronted our early saints?
I maintain that there is much we can do to turn the tide. First and foremost, taking a cue from the citizens of Nineveh, we should put on sack-cloth and ashes (at least figuratively, if not literally) and seek personal repentence. Second, we must get active. If you're already active, prepare to become moreso.
The activity I'm proposing is not simply political, though that is a part of it. It needs to be evangelical--I accuse myself and my Church in general of going mainly soft on this issue. Indeed, many of the most celebrated evangelical Catholics are converts (!) And for you Evangelical Protestants, I challenge you to turn your fervor away from trying to convert pious and believing Catholics and train your theological cannons on the great and growing mass of secularized, sexualized youth. In short, I believe that a new, powerful burst of evangelization is the only thing that can save Western civilization from the otherwise unavoidable implosion of anarchy.
At any rate, if you think I'm being ridiculous or overstating the problem, just imagine we were back in 1990 and I told you that within 15 years, the Supreme Court would declare sodomy to be a constitutional right and that Canada would consider two homosexual men the moral equivalent of marriage.
If we unite, we can win. If we stay divided, we cede the victory to the forces of darkness. Your choice.
John answered him, saying: Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, who followeth not us: and we forbade him. But Jesus said: Do not forbid him. For there is no man that doth a miracle in my name and can soon speak ill of me. For he that is not against you is for you. (Mark 9:38)
Might make a good Religion Forum Ghetto tagline...hmmmm....needs some editing for length.
Yes, Of course, you'll never know if you don't try.
Pram, I must tell you that, though your socially conservative bona fides are better than most here, at least as measured by your courageous witness to traditional values on the Culture Wars threads on the News Forum, others here will get bent out of shape. Frankly, you are doing more to spread our gospel than many of the hypocrites here in the Religion Forum Ghetto who would condemn you to hell in the blink of an eye and not think twice about it, yet are too cowardly to engage the real battles you engage here daily.
But Jesus has the last Word. He judges according to His Word, not their false interpretations of it. I see you as more of a brother in Christ than many who claim and proclaim the necessity of John 3:16.
The Great Commission is not being fulfilled in the Religion Forum Ghetto. Its a bunch of committed Christians wasting precious time and energy rehashing the same old arguments ad nauseum, while the culture of death rolls over our land. Leave this ghetto, shut it down, and then BEGIN pursuing the Great Commission in places where your efforts may bear fruit, not do the work of the evil one, as so much debate on this Religion Forum now does.
1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with
one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
It seems that there are now several subthreads, or suggestions, derived from the original concept of this thread.
!. Treat each other's position with consideration, at least for a month.
2. Start with a scripture re: how we should treat each other.
3. Everybody work for two certain constitutional amendments.
The first two are not particularly radical, although #2 might be slightly divisive. Adherents to religions, which do not value the Bible, might be offended by Bible verses.
The last leads to some random thoughts regarding working together.
Although I, personally, believe that my limited energy must be otherwise directed, I would not want to discourage someone who believed otherwise; and even the mere explanation of my reasons for this belief (or opinion) could well have the effect of discouraging them.
It is possible that a reasoned presentation of the case FOR these amendments would win the hearts and minds of more workers for this cause. It is also possible that such a presentation could lead to a furthering of division, and hardening of positions. That would be up to those participating in the discussion.
This brings up the other issue involved in working together: how much difference of opinion, or belief, can be encompassed by an alliance?
Consider the parable of WWII: The US, UK, Commonwealth, and part of Western Europe ALLIED themselves with the Soviet Union. This alliance, which was arguably necessary to defeat the Axis, had the desired result; AND, it had the very bad result of the enslavement of Eastern Europe.
Alliances can be very useful, but one must consider both the scope of the alliance, and its purpose. In a battle for a political goal, one might well ally with people and parties which hold to substantially different points of view. In an alliance for an explicitly religious purpose, the participants need not agree on ALL points of doctrine, but MUST, as a foundation, be in agreement on the specific purpose of the alliance.
In both cases, we need to consider the very real probability that some wolves in sheeps clothing will enter into the alliance, with the intent of furthering their own agenda.
DG
I totally agree with your tag line, "To all hiding out in theReligionForumGhetto-It's time to fight the CultureOfDeath on the NewsForum"....we need them now more than ever!!!!
13 posted on 06/29/2003 11:40 AM EDT by GrandMoM ("Vengeance is Mine , I will repay," says the Lord.)
I do not mean to be "difficult" , But the first priority we must have is to pray and study Gods word.
When Jesus gave the great commission He did not include changing governmental policy.In fact He told us to render to Caesar what is Caesar s. Slavery was approved of in His time , He did not call for a political revolution , He instead told slave to obey their masters.
The change that needs to happen is in the hearts of men.
On the other hand we are told to contend for the faith
Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
We can not disregard Biblical commands for one that in principle opposed to scripture.
No one is more upset at the turn of events under a "Christian" President that I am, but it just proves that the solution to sin in the world is not a man , but as always a work of God.
I agree on the News forum we need to be of one voice
To all hiding out in theReligionForumGhetto-It's time to fight the CultureOfDeath on the NewsForum
So this is you solution to a Spiritual War!
It's time to fight the CultureOfDeath on the NewsForum
Eph.6
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
21 But that ye also may know my affairs, and how I do, Tychicus, a beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, shall make known to you all things:
22 Whom I have sent unto you for the same purpose, that ye might know our affairs, and that he might comfort your hearts.
23 Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen.
Things to think about!
Prince; All verses relate to PRINCE The rebel Lucifer/Satan Who was created prefect and later was found with iniquity therefore being unclean wss thrown out of heaven but retain the rank of Prince!
prin·ci·pal·i·ties. 1. A territory ruled by a prince or from which a prince derives his title. 2. The position, authority, or jurisdiction of a prince; sovereignty. 3. principalities. Theology. The seventh of the nine orders of angels. Also called In this sense, also called, princedoms.
In this bit of knowlegde of order Lucifer/Satan seemed to obtained the 7th order or rank! As read in (Eph.6;12)
He never reached the an order to received a mortal body, yet Satan does for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. (Eph.6;28) .
He will never be able to have an increase in rank or order, even thoough he can reek havoc!
Gen.32
24 ¶ And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob’s thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
31 And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh.
32 Therefore the children of Israel eat not of the sinew which shrank, which is upon the hollow of the thigh, unto this day: because he touched the hollow of Jacob’s thigh in the sinew that shrank.
So this Evil dued Lucifer/Satan is an angel/prince who only obtain the 7the order in rank.
The son of man is also angel/prince who obtain 8th order for we also have a mortal body who someday receive a body of flesh and bone which will immmortal for all eternity!
The Evil dude can never recieve a mortal body nor any increase in order or rank!
I pray you will search the scriptures more and ponder these things in the name of Jesus Christ!
A huge Amen to that! First we have to unite ourselves to God and seek the Holy Spirit. After that, hey, martyrdom doesn't look so terrible to me.
I'll just say what bothers me about the homosexual movement. They remind me of the islamic movement. Ever been to the tip of Cape Cod? The homosexuals in the late 80's had nearly completely taken it over. A very nice area, as you can imagine. Seattle is another city where they run rampant and have made tremendous progress politically.
And God help the Boy Scouts, for whom my father worked as a professional his entire life.
The point I wanted to make here was that because Lucifer/Satan is also has obtained the status of a prince ,he too has power with God.
How much? I think it means he can cause a lot of havoc on planet earth. He has no power in Heaven or over those who keep the commandments of the Lord.
He can try to trick, tempt, lure etc. It is up to us to stay clean in the Lord!
I am often amazed at how often I get freepmail from lurkers, though, after I post here on the religion forum. If we post here and constantly attack each other, or if we are perceived as doing so, what is our witness to Christ?
...the hypocrites here in the Religion Forum Ghetto who would condemn you to hell in the blink of an eye and not think twice about it, yet are too cowardly to engage the real battles...
I think it would be good to consider whether this assessment might be inaccurate at best, and based upon a lack of both historical perspective and accurate data regarding the activities of other posters.
1 Chronicles 5:20
They were helped in fighting them, and God handed the Hagrites
and all their allies over to them, because they cried out to him
during the battle. He answered their prayers, because they trusted in him.
1 Chronicles 5:22
and many others fell slain, because the battle was God's. And they
occupied the land until the exile.
2 Chronicles 20:15
....This is what the LORD says to you: 'Do not be afraid or
discouraged because of this vast army. For the battle is not yours, but
God's.
Isaiah 28:6
He will be a spirit of justice to him who sits in judgment, a source of
strength to those who turn back the battle at the gate.
Romans 14: 4
Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he
stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
DG
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.