Where Have All the FR Protestants Gone? [A Month Later]

drstevej

[drstevej]

Thread from last month...

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Where Have All the FR Protestants Gone?
drstevej

Posted on 04/08/2003 12:29 PM CDT by drstevej

OBSERVATIONS:

[1] There seems to be a significantly reduced number of Protestant Threads (KJV Only being the exception for sure) in the FR Religion Forum.

[2] There seems to be a reduced number of FR Protestant posts in the Religion Forum.

This thread is a place to discuss these observations.

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Now the transformation to a Catholic Religion Forum is almost complete. Must be a Marian miracle or an answer to Jim Robinson's prayer, "Can't we all just get along?" Now all the dissent is within the RC fold ... NO Mass vs. Tridentine Mass. Boredom has descended, the moderators are free to nap without fear of an **** awakening them.

Could someone arrange for a funeral mass? (a clown mass in this case might be in order).

 

-- Pope Piel  I (thinking of abdicating prior to even assuming the Chair of Peter)

[StAthanasiustheGreat]

You know priests who have dropped certain words from the creed? Which words? (I am kind of shocked they would do that, not shocked that some might disagree)

[ultima ratio]

What is your disagreement with me? I hold pretty moderate traditionalist views and try not to go around insulting people. I do think SSPX has gotten a bum rap, that its bishops were never excommunicated, that Rome has defamed the Society in order to win political points, and that it has failed in the attempt as the fraternity prospers--which is why Rome is now making all kinds of pleasant noises. But these are not extremist views. Some of the best canonists in Rome hold them. You need to look at what I have argued more closely. Much of what people THINK I believe--is nonsense. Sinspur thinks I believe the NO Mass is invalid, for instance. I never said that--not once. It is deficient, but not invalid. Nor does SSPX hold the view that the NO is invalid. These are assumptions made by people who are ill-informed but which have no merit in fact.

[TradicalRC]

There does seem to be some debate on whether the Novus Ordo is intrinsically flawed or if it is indeed reformable.

This reminds me of the post-Stalin U.S.S.R; was communism intrinsically flawed or was "the cult of personality" (to use Kruschev's phrase) to blame?

Since all are forms of liberalism or "modernism", I would say, probably intrinsically flawed. But of course we ARE human so the same could be said of us.

[SoothingDave]

You know priests who have dropped certain words from the creed?

I've heard tales. "For us ... and for our salvation" for example.

Wouldn't want to exclude women.

SD

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I posted a bit on a RC thread this weekend. Didn't go well:). After several attempts to keep it civil, I just left. I did get a private apology for the rudeness on that thread from another gracious catholic, but hey, gracious catholics are few a far between and I am tired of fussing.

Becky

[Pyro7480]

Does anyone believe the NO is invalid??

[Pyro7480]

Yeah, I know how you must feel. I'm sorry that you've had a bad experience with Catholics. I've had to chime in every now and then to remind people to remain civil and to be charitable. I hope things do get better eventually. People can argue without being nasty.

[ultima ratio]

Not as far as I know. Some of the Masses are made invalid by the liberties taken by individual priests, but the Mass per se is not considered invalid.

[drstevej]

How can a NO Mass be valid if it is Protestant in theology as you have argued?

[SoothingDave]

How can a NO Mass be valid if it is Protestant in theology as you have argued?

It's not that Protestant. :-)

SD

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I will be fair. I have been nasty plenty of times in the past myself, and am sorry for it now. This week end I was trying hard to be nice though. Sometimes I think that because we can't see/hear the person we are posting too, we may read something into things that are really not intended. Expressions and tones make a big difference.

Becky

[StAthanasiustheGreat]

Wow, and I hate to say it, that is the Creed line I know. Then in my defense, I am only 20, thus I never had the benefit of knowing the Pre-Vatican II Church. One question, isn't "He Descended into Hell" suppossed to be in the Creed, or is that the Nicene Creed of 325? God Bless

[SoothingDave]

Wow, and I hate to say it, that is the Creed line I know. Then in my defense, I am only 20, thus I never had the benefit of knowing the Pre-Vatican II Church.

All you have to know is to open the missalette. The line is "for us men and for our salvation." This is not meant to exclude the fairer sex, this is how the English language works.

One question, isn't "He Descended into Hell" suppossed to be in the Creed, or is that the Nicene Creed of 325? God Bless

That is in the Apostle's Creed, an older, but shorter creed.

SD

[RnMomof7]

I will be fair. I have been nasty plenty of times in the past myself, and am sorry for it now. This week end I was trying hard to be nice though. Sometimes I think that because we can't see/hear the person we are posting too, we may read something into things that are really not intended. Expressions and tones make a big difference.

    Luk 8:10   And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

[drstevej]

Duck quick, another Protestant has arrived!

[Alex Murphy]

Not sure if it's the same subject, but there's a Jesuit named Count Hans Kolvenbach who has been called the "black Pope".

According to one internet site that claims the Jesuits are linked to every major global conflict and political assassination of at least the last half of the twentieth century, Count Hans Kolvenbach controls the Vatican. The same author claims Jesuit leaders worship Satan via a Black Mass, are the leaders of the High Shriner Freemasons, were responsible for the creation of the US income tax and social security, are in COMPLETE CONTROL of the entire intelligence apparatus—FBI, every bureaucratic agency in this country, all of it - and whose ultimate goal is the rule of the world, with a Pope of the Jesuit's making, from Solomon’s rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem..

In the words of Dave Barry, "I am not making this up." Trust me, I couldn't make up stuff this weird, and God knows I've tried. I'd have given the Jesuits super powers derived from radioactive Holy water, and it still wouldn't be this weird.

[Alex Murphy]

It's not that Protestant.

Okay. I'll bite, In my best Ed McMahon voice, I ask you...
How Protestant is it?

[ultima ratio]

Even non-Catholic liturgies may be valid. For instance, the Orthodox have valid Consecrations, celebrated by validly ordained priests. In the N.O. you have a valid Consecration, celebrated by a validly ordained priest, but this is done not to offer a present unbloody sacrifice of Christ Himself to the Father so much as to commemorate at a memorial meal the Sacrifice that had already happened--as Protestants would say, once and for all--two thousand years ago. Such a liturgy had been specifically condemned by Trent.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

And your point is.....?

Becky

[Pyro7480]

Expressions and tones make a big difference.

I totally agree. That's why I like to add emoticons to my posts (not all the time, but when needed). I have a friend who I talk to over Instant Messenger, and she doesn't use the emoticons, so it's hard to determine her mood or intention at time during the conversation. That's one thing we may want to look into to pacify things around here.