Gay priests of Diocese A-J in revolt; demand Bishop conceal molesters, sue Catholic activists

Written press release mailed to diocesan bishop, priests, media outlets of Diocese of Altoona-Johnst | 5/15/03 | Priests Federation of Altoona-Johnstown

[Polycarp]

[bold emphasis in original document]

Priests Federation of Altoona-Johnstown

Johnstown, Pennsylvania

Dear Sisters and Brothers in the Lord:

Whereas the rights and dignity of priests in the Roman Catholic Diocese of Altoona-Johnstown are threatened by forces both external to the community of believers and internally by our bishop and his staff.

Whereas, in response to this threat, the Priests Federation of Altoona-Johnstown was secretly formed by 26 clrgy of this Diocese to demand the rights and dignity of all priests be respected and protected by our bishop.

Therefore, we, the Priests Federation of Altoona-Johnstown, joined with our fellow clergy, ask the following from our bishop:

Whereas our bishop insists on publicly defending lawsuits against this diocese and thus increasing the threat that more names of our priests be exposed in the media, we demand that our bishop cease and desist his public defense of any and all lawsuits concerning alleged priestly misconduct and instead settle these cases out of court so as to protect the reputation and well being of those priests so named and others that may be revealed in the course of any trial.

Whereas our bishop threatens and harasses homosexual priests into fearing for their office, we demand that our bishop cease and desist any and all harassment of homosexual clergy and instead work to protect the reputation and well being of clergy of all sexual orientations.

Whereas our bishop placates those who attack our diocese and its priests, we demand that our bishop turn the attention of his legal representation towards stopping the hateful and homophobic actions of George Foster, Brian Barcaro, Dr. Brian Kopp [FReeper "Polycarp"], et. al., who are set upon destroying the reputations of homosexuals priests and this diocese.

Whereas our bishop ignores the actions of certain priests who consistently act against the unity of this diocese, we demand our bishop suspend Fr. James Foster and Fr. John Nesbella immediately, for repeated and constant acts which threaten the unity of our community of faith.

Whereas our bishop removed Dr. David Brown [of "GoodBye, Good Men" book fame] from his position as intake psychologist and from candidacy for the permanent diaconate program due to the incessant demands of several Talibanic conservative clergy and laity, we demand our bishop reinstate Dr. Brown both to his position as intake psychologist and to the permanent dioconate program.

Whereas our bishop has ordained several men to the priesthood over the last several year who are unfit to serve the modern, post-concilular (sic) church, we demand our bishop conduct a complete review and overhaul of the priestly recruitment program:

I. Review the psychological reports of the men ordained since 1995 and order to counseling all those who are deemed to have serious mental deficiencies or proven inability to serve in the church of Vatican II.

II. Cease and desist sending seminarians to the present rigid seminaries used by our diocese and begin to use more pastoral seminaries for formation.

III. Deny orders to the present candidate for ordination to the priesthood because of a very negative psychological report and his inability to serve the present day church.

IV. Examine all present and future seminarians in greater psychological depth to determine their fitness and desire to serve the modern church.

We believe that it is better to have fewer clergy and more lay involvement than to have many rigid and juridical priests who drive women and men away from the community of believers.

Whereas the present staff our (sic) diocesan finance office (Larry Sutton, et. al.) shows no respect for our clergy and little if any knowledge of the day to day life of our clergy and our parishes, we demand that our bishop retrain or replace the staff of the finance office so as to respect the dignity of our clergy and their office.

Whereas our chancery shows little care or concern for our retired priests at Dimitri Manor or elsewhere, we demand that our bishop review and overhaul the priests retirement program so as to provide them with the comfortable retirement due to them after many years of thankless service:

I. Immediately increase the present monthly retirement benefit payment to $1,500.00.

II. Fully fund all future retirement needs 20 years into the future in a pension trust fund so as to guarantee monthly payments regardless of the future financial state of the diocese.

III. Separate all retirement monies from diocesan funds so as to protect them from being taken in lawsuits.

IV. Immediately form a committee to examine the deplorable living conditions at the Dimitri Manor priests retirement home.

Whereas the compensation of our priests under the present formula is inherently unjust as priests whose workload is heavy due to parish size are paid the same as priests in small parishes, we demand that our bishop install a new payscale to reflect a more appropriate and just salary based on workload and parish size.

We believe this list of demands is the same list Jesus himself would ask for if he were a priest of this diocese.

If our requests are not met, we ask our fellow clergy to prayerfully consider ways of peaceful protest. Ech should follow his or her conscience in discerning ways to show civil disobedience to our hierarchy until our voice of change is heard.

Sincerely in Christ,

Priests Federation of Altoona-Johnstown

N.B.: The PFAJ is a group of priests of the Diocese of Altoona-Johnstown united in a pursuit of justice and sworn to complete secrecy to avert the very real threat of retaliation by our diocesan bishop.

CC:
Brother Priests & Deacons
Concerned Laity
National Catholic Reporter
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Johnstown Tribune-Democrat
Altoona Mirror
Centre Daily Times
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[Jorge]

"So because you don't know anyone who's made such accusations therefore nobody ever has and I'm lying. LOL. Well you're wrong. I've encountered individuals online who've made precisely this claims."

You specifically addressed it personally as “Polycarp’s pedophile threads” NOT other “individuals” online.

I "specifically addressed" my above response to YOUR POST...... which it seems you are unable to even remember...so I will repost it for you;

Clint N. Suhks sez;" don’t know anyone who accuses ALL homosexuals of being pedophiles."

Mega-DUH to the max.

[Jorge]

"they implied as much by claiming pedophilia is a normal, accepted and integral part of the homosexual community."

Now you’re just being a liar… YOU implied Polycarp says ALL gays are pedophiles.

LOL...I'm being called a liar by someone can't remember the context of the issue being discussed half the time...or even what he said in his last post. Too funny.

But let me try to explain this to you once again. Read it slower this time.

The claim that pedophilia is a normal, accepted and integral part of the homosexual community....is implying that all gays are virtual pedophiles or accept it as normal.

Now you can try to split hairs with your pathetic APA definitions...but unlike you...I don't accept the word of an organization that removes homosexuality from it's list of disorders simply because the gay lobby threatens them.
Stop promoting your APA pro-gay propaganda.

[Clint N. Suhks]

You've got to be kidding. The APA, who removed homosexuality from their list of disorders under pressure from the gay activists?... This is YOUR authority on the the definition of "homophobe". Too funny.

Actually no…that’s the other APA, you know Marmor, Spitzer, and the gang at The American Psychiatric Association who removed the pathology from the DSM. I was talking about the American Psychological Association. But since you’ve obviously not bothered to look it up either way it’s apparent your education doesn’t go past the occasional reading the odd dictionary word.

ROFL! You come up with some definition of homophobe backed up by the pro-homosexual APA...

” obscure weirdo” Umm…The APA is the one who invented the word but don’t let facts get in your way…this is fun. But you’re right the APA is pro homosexual…so why do you deny your own abbreviated definition invented and defined by the APA as being homosexual propaganda OR are you just the convenient hypocrite caught in a lie?

and accuse me "contortions" for using the term "homophobe" in it's generally understood context...

It’s generally understood meaning is homosexual propaganda and should your memory have the capacity to remember your own words it was you who accused me of “contortions” if I recall.

which is a person who suffers from an inordinate fear and dread of homosexuals.

OK that’s a start good buddy but he rest of the definition involves denial of latent tendencies which lay dictionaries conveniently leave out for PC reasons.

You know I'm right...admit it already.

Hell no this is too much fun. I give facts and you give opinion, it’s great bravado, let’s let the lurkers decide who’s full of sh!t and who’s not. Carry on captain.

But it seems you are really keeping up on your gay lingo....almost as if it is your native language.....hmmmmm.

OK you caught me ...I'm "gay".

[Clint N. Suhks]

I'm still waiting for you to find ANY "homosexual propaganda" I've posted and paste it here....much less inform me of the so-called "consequences". Where is it?

Everywhere you called someone a “homophobe”, short attention span eh?

Your so used to throwing accusations you cannot support at all those who disagree with you...that when anybody challenges you to prove what you say.... you come up with NOTHING. Pathetic.

I see…the history of your homosexual propaganda word is NOTHING? At least try to debate it being wrong instead of using some sort of juvenile guilt by association. Boy, talk about pathetic.

[Clint N. Suhks]

I "specifically addressed" my above response to YOUR POST...... which it seems you are unable to even remember...so I will repost it for you; Clint N. Suhks sez;" don’t know anyone who accuses ALL homosexuals of being pedophiles." Mega-DUH to the max.

Nope it was to Polycarp. Nice try though…see my cite regarding your confusion.

[Clint N. Suhks]

LOL...I'm being called a liar by someone can't remember the context of the issue being discussed half the time...or even what he said in his last post. Too funny.

Hehehe…What a moroon.

The claim that pedophilia is a normal, accepted and integral part of the homosexual community....is implying that all gays are virtual pedophiles or accept it as normal.

Again for third TIME please cite anyone anywhere on FR who makes this claim. Either put up or shut up. Really!

Now you can try to split hairs with your pathetic APA definitions...but unlike you...I don't accept the word of an organization that removes homosexuality from it's list of disorders simply because the gay lobby threatens them. Stop promoting your APA pro-gay propaganda.

Again wrong APA Einstein, see above…oh and feel free to prove me wrong or is it just going to be more juvenile guilt by association notions in lieu of facts or logic.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

The Faith is today TORN and SUNDERED with the politics of human beings but God is not mocked. The faithful will remain and will be transmogrified but they will not come out of any particular political eclesiastical system. By their fruits ye shall know them.

Indeed the Church is torn and sundered. Worse yet, do you know the greatest enemy of Christian unity in the American Church today?

The end-of-the-world Pre-Tribulationist Rapture fanatics.

For 200 years (since the dawn of "Pre-Tribulationist Rapture Dispensationalism" in the 1830's), the end-of-the-world Pre-Tribulationist Rapture fanatics have essentially carved out their own Church. Theology used to be a "gentleman's disagreement" between Romans and Protestants -- sure, they burned us at the stake a time or two, but we still altogether more-or-less agreed with Augustine's amillenial "City of God".

The Church is the "City of God". The World is the "City of Man". We Live as Ambassadors; and the End will come... whenever it comes. The "End" could well be thirty thousand years from now. The Church MUST... and WILL... endure; because the "End" is not tomorrow.

Nowadays, many "American Protestants" make the-end-is-right-around-the-corner Eschatology a Test of Christian Fellowship.

• What if I told you that most of John's Revelation, the "things which must shortly come to pass", has already come to pass -- exactly as John prophesied?
• What if I told you that "Babylon the Great" in the Book of Revelation is not ROME, but is rather JERUSALEM, "the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified."
• What if I told you that Rome IS NOT "Babylon", because Revelation is mostly already fulfilled??

---

• And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. ~~ The Revelation of Apostle saint John
  Besides these, a few days after that feast, on the one-and-twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared; I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armour were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities. Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner court of the temple, as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence." ~~ Josephus, "the Jewish Wars"

• And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath. ~~ The Revelation of Apostle saint John
  At Jerusalem were now three factions raging furiously. Eleazar, son of Simon, who was the first cause of the war, by persuading the people to reject the offerings of the emperors to the Temple, and had led the Zealots and seized the Temple, pretended to cherish righteous wrath against John of Gischala for the bloodshed he had occasioned. But he deserted the Zealots and seized the inner court of the Temple, so that there was war between him and Simon, son of Gioras. Thus Eleazar, John and Simon each led a band in constant fightings, and the Temple was everywhere defiled by murders. ~~ Josephus, "The Jewish Wars"

• And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.
  Admirable as were the engines constructed by all the legions, those of the Tenth Legion were of peculiar excellence. Their scorpions were of greater power and their stone-projectors larger, and with these they not only kept in check the sallying parties, but those also on the ramparts. The stones that were thrown were of the weight of a talent, and had a range of two furlongs and more. The shock, not only to such as first met it, but even to those beyond them for a considerable distance, was irresistible. The Jews, however, at the first, could guard against the stone; for its approach was intimated, not only to the ear by its whiz, but also, being white, to the eye by its brightness. Accordingly they had watchmen posted on the towers, who gave warning when the engine was discharged and the stone projected, calling out in their native language, "The SON is coming!!" ~~ Josephus, "The Jewish Wars"

---

The interesting thing is, even the Christ-Rejecting Zealot Revolutionaries of the First Century were not such fools as the Modern Protestant Apocalyptics of the 20th Century.

They knew EXACTLY what was happening. As the Talent-weight Hailstones of the Roman Artillery fell upon them, they did not cry, "The SUN is coming". This is not the Hebrew expression in question. As the Talent-weight Hailstones of the Roman Artillery fell upon them, they cried, "The SON is coming".

The Judgment of the Revelation of Jesus Christ was falling upon Jerusalem. RIGHT EXACTLY THEN. The Fulfillment of all Imprecatory Prophecy. And they knew it.

Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, and ye perish from the way, when His wrath is kindled but a little.
Blessed are all they that put their trust in Him.

It is rather silly for "Protestants" to pretend that Rome is "Babylon the Great". Granted, she may act like a Whore ~~ but so does Protestantism. Regardless, the fact remains the same... JOHN WAS NOT LYING. The "Revelation" concerns matters which which "must shortly come to pass" in the First Century, and exactly as John declared, they already have.

Painful as it is to say, Luther was wrong. Rome (no matter how much she acts like a Theological Whore) cannot possibly be the Whore of Babylon. Most of Revelation has already happened.

We are left with Revelation 20 -- "The Millenium of the Church" (not exactly 1000 years, I suppose; But 1,000 years with the Lord is as a single Day). Just as Augustine himself exposited.

How long is the Revelation 20 "Millenium of the Church"? I don't know. Neither did Augustine.

Personally, I suspect it will last at least until the Roman Church returns to the Biblical-Pauline-Augustinian Gospel, and until the Protestant Church returns to... shucks, any "Gospel" at all.

Best, OP

[George W. Bush]

You're an evil, evil man, FRiend GWB.

Not a problem for Christians of Calvinist outlook!

I really hate it when someone knows exactly how to push my buttons. Here I stay up a little too late on a Friday night, and the next thing I know GWB has me writing "Short Takes" for The Wanderer and The New Oxford Review.

I expect to read about Cardinal Ratzinger quoting you shortly.

...(which was really nothing more than GWB goading me into a response, bomb-thrower that he is)...

I deny ever throwing any explosive device larger than a cherry bomb firecracker.

[George W. Bush]

You make excellent points against the Rapture folk. But we can hardly imagine the modern shape of American Christianity without its influence.

[Polycarp]

Uh oh, I fear Mercy, in his/her merciful fashion, must now consign you too unto the flames of eternal perdition for being an apologist for the Whore of Babylon. At least I'll have some good company with a keen sense of humor!

[Revelation 911]

bump

[mercy]

Well Gee, I was going to abandon this tiresome thread but you have drawn me back.

I've never been a big rapture rooter. Though I plead guilty to evangelical leanings I could never bring myself to arrange my doctrine based on one verse of scripture.
Let's just say if it happens I won't be carping about it.

Just as I believe that The Messiah did not scoop up twelve adult celibates out of jewdom and make them his eunich priests because it is contrary to common sense .... I don't think God would spend so much scriptural verbiage warning about The Last Day and then let it come and go and life go on as ususal.

The Jews were made Jews through the miraculous events surrounding their Exodus. The mind of the Jew was indelibly marked for all the ages. Not by mere words and traditions but by an imposssible plague, a column of fire and a parted sea. Just for starters.

Just so The Christ miraculously proved to his Apostles and many disciples that indeed God is God and ... He was one with God. This Son of God promised he would return. I believe Him. Surely you don't think THAT came and went?

Man has been given an amount of time to accept his salvation. This amount of time is measured. It is limited. The Second Coming has not happened yet. The Mount of Olives has not been split and rivers of living water run out. The Holy City has not descended. God is a God of miracles. The final act in this drama will be another time of miracles and all mankind will be given a final chance and a helping hand to get past their unbelief.

I don't know about a 'rapture'. It does not matter to me. But I do know about my God and he is a God of miracles. He has warned me that the world will end in a miraculous fashion and that some will be saved for eternal life because and out of this cataclysm. I in no way can tell just when these things will happen but I think the fig tree is budding.

It makes no sense The Lord would allow the play to go on another thirty thousand years as you say. After all he has to deal with our shortcomings.

[BlackElk]

I don't disagree with a word of that sentence of yours. On the other hand, not now and not ever do I need to be guided by ANY ONE outside the Church nor do I need to be nagged by pretentious jackasses who think they are in a position to tell me what I or any other Catholic should believe when they are outside of the Roman Catholic Church. If you enjoy indulging in the self-worship of YOPIOS, have a ball but keep your unwelcome advice as to Catholicism and matters Catholic to your nonCatholic self. We don't tell you how to practice whatever you may believe. Mind your own business. No one died and named you to preach to us. You evidently have nothing whatsoever to offer.

If you find those three languages so easy, you apparently don't find them easy enough to compile a simple sentence in each.

[Jorge]

"I'm still waiting for you to find ANY "homosexual propaganda" I've posted and paste it here....much less inform me of the so-called "consequences". Where is it?" Everywhere you called someone a “homophobe”, short attention span eh?

Is this ALL you've got?

Just as I thought. You can't come up with ANYTHING.

You like to make wild and hysterical accusations against anyone who disagrees with you....then when anybody challenges you to prove what you say.... you come up with NOTHING.

The idea that calling someone a homophobe is gay propaganda is such a weak argument.

My sister tells me that her husband is a homophobe..that he gets freaked out around anybody who is gay. And he admits it.

Guess they are both promoting gay propaganda according to your rationale?
Give me a major break.

[Jorge]

Jorge;" I "specifically addressed" my above response to YOUR POST...... which it seems you are unable to even remember...so I will repost it for you;
Clint N. Suhks sez;" don’t know anyone who accuses ALL homosexuals of being pedophiles."

Nope it was to Polycarp. Nice try though…see my cite regarding your confusion.

Let's see;

My post was addressed to "Clint N. Suhks".
It is the ONLY name that appears in the heading.

The only quote in the post is from "Clint N. Suhks" and it is followed by a response to "Clint N. Suhks" and nobody else.

Polycarp's name doesn't appear either in the post heading nor is Polycarp mentioned ANYWHERE in the post.

Yet you still insist it was to Polycarp.
And you call me confused?
Are you trying to make me laugh on purpose or what?

[Jorge]

Jorge;"The claim that pedophilia is a normal, accepted and integral part of the homosexual community....is implying that all gays are virtual pedophiles or accept it as normal."

Again for third TIME please cite anyone anywhere on FR who makes this claim. Either put up or shut up. Really!

This is the FIRST TIME I've ever read such a request by you...and unlike you, I can back up my claims.

Polycarp posted that it is "an integral part of the homosexual subculture, and tacitly and explicitly accepted by the entire movement. Thus the call for lowering the age of consent for homosexual sex across the board by the homo movement."

(from ;"Even more posts on homosexuality...i'm curious as to why?" Posted on 05/01/2003 5:41 PM EDT by Polycarp)

[Jorge]

Jorge;"Now you can try to split hairs with your pathetic APA definitions...but unlike you...I don't accept the word of an organization that removes homosexuality from it's list of disorders simply because the gay lobby threatens them. Stop promoting your APA pro-gay propaganda."

Again wrong APA Einstein, see above…oh and feel free to prove me wrong or is it just going to be more juvenile guilt by association notions in lieu of facts or logic.

Without attempting to untangle the incoherent mess of a sentence we see above...I will simply repeat that it is a well known and documented fact that the APA caved into the gay lobby when it remove homosexuality from it's list of disorders.

[Jorge]

…that’s the other APA, you know Marmor, Spitzer, and the gang at The American Psychiatric Association who removed the pathology from the DSM. I was talking about the American Psychological Association. But since you’ve obviously not bothered to look it up either way it’s apparent your education doesn’t go past the occasional reading the odd dictionary word.

Excuse me, but you simply refered to the APA and made no such distinction in the post I was responding to.
It's not my job to research your posts to determine what sources of information you are citing...especially when you don't even bother clarifying them yourself.

And you use this weak point to criticize another's education? LOL!

In any case it doesn't matter. The wacky definition of "homophobe" you posted is clearly not the normally understood or socially accepted usage of the term.

[Jorge]

"You come up with some definition of homophobe backed up by the pro-homosexual APA..."

” obscure weirdo” Umm…The APA is the one who invented the word but don’t let facts get in your way…this is fun. But you’re right the APA is pro homosexual…so why do you deny your own abbreviated definition invented and defined by the APA as being homosexual propaganda OR are you just the convenient hypocrite caught in a lie?

What on earth are you talking about?

I simply refered to the FACT that the normal, the generally accepted and understood use of the term "homophobe" is a person who has an inordinate or irrational fear or dread of homosexuals.

What does stating this fact have to do with "homosexual propaganda" or "hypocrisy" or ANY of the numerous incoherant disconnected accusations you feel the need to throw at anybody who disagrees with you?

You are clearly hypersensitive and overly defensive to anybody using the term "homophobe". I wonder why that is?

[Jorge]

"which is a person who suffers from an inordinate fear and dread of homosexuals."

OK that’s a start good buddy but he rest of the definition involves denial of latent tendencies which lay dictionaries conveniently leave out for PC reasons.

Huh? What is PC about avoiding definitions of "homophobes" that make them look even WORSE, and more emotionally disturbed?

What's PC about a definition that makes "homophobes" look better?

Homosexual activists are the only ones I've heard attempt to label all homophobes as closet homosexuals.

You've got it backwards.

"But it seems you are really keeping up on your gay lingo....almost as if it is your native language.....hmmmmm."

OK you caught me ...I'm "gay".

I realize how hard it was for you to admit this.

But confession is good for the soul and it is the first step in recovery.
You're getting closer to the truth. Don't give up!