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It is the last three words that I have a question about. Is it doctrinally-correct to say that Mary is "so wholly divine?" She is fully human, and from her womb, was born Jesus, is fully human and fully divine. So at first glance, it seems wrong to call her "so wholly divine." What do you think?
1 posted on 05/14/2003 7:00:12 AM PDT by Pyro7480
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To: NYer; Siobhan; Polycarp; Aquinasfan; St.Chuck; american colleen; Tantumergo
Ping!
2 posted on 05/14/2003 7:15:40 AM PDT by Pyro7480 (+ Vive Jesus! (Live Jesus!) +)
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To: Pyro7480
"She will crush your head..."

Is this what I think it is, a take on Genesis 3:15?

Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Emphasis mine.

3 posted on 05/14/2003 7:17:17 AM PDT by jboot
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To: Pyro7480
***The Immaculata is the mother of our entire supernatural life because she is the Mediatrix of the grace of God***

This doesn't bother you too? It ascribes the role of the Holy Spirit to Mary. Might as well make her divine.
4 posted on 05/14/2003 7:21:25 AM PDT by drstevej
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To: Pyro7480
[The Immaculata] is a most loving mother, because you do not have any mother so affectionate, so loving, so godlike, so Immaculate, so wholly divine.
[A]t first glance, it seems wrong to call her "so wholly divine."
From the American Heritage Dictionary entry for divine:
Adjective: 1a. Having the nature of or being a deity. b. Of, relating to, emanating from, or being the expression of a deity: sought divine guidance through meditation. c. Being in the service or worship of a deity; sacred.
Who is more wholly in the service of the Word made Flesh than the mother who gave him his flesh?
16 posted on 05/14/2003 9:09:23 AM PDT by eastsider
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To: Pyro7480; american colleen; sinkspur; livius; Lady In Blue; Salvation; Polycarp; narses; ...
Is it doctrinally-correct to say that Mary is "so wholly divine?"

The following is from Coredemptrix On-line Publication web site.

THIS GLORIOUS TITLE of Co-Redemptress, and that of Mediatrix of all graces, which it implies, have been given Mary by the latest popes. On February 2nd, 1904, Pius X wrote in the encyclical Ad diem:

“In virtue of the communion of sorrows and of will which attached her to Christ, Mary wanted to become the worthy Reparatrix of the fallen world, and in consequence the Dispenser of all the graces Jesus acquired for us by His bloody death . . . Because she surpasses all other creatures by her sanctity and by her union with Christ, and because she was called by Christ to participate in the work of our salvation, she merits for us de congruo, as the expression is, what Christ has merited for us de condigno, and she is the first steward in the dispensing of graces.”

Benedict XV wrote similarly, March 22nd, 1918: “When her Son suffered and died, she so to say suffered and died with Him, renouncing for the salvation of men and the appeasement of the justice of God her maternal rights over her Son—and immolating her Son, as much as in her lay, so that we are entitled to say that she, with Christ, has redeemed the human race.”

And Pius XI writes, February 2nd, 1923: “The Virgin of Sorrows participated with Christ in the work of the Redemption.” The actual word Co-Redemptrix appears in two decrees of the Holy Office, dated June 26th, 1913, and January 22nd, 1914.

The consent Our Lady gave to the mystery of the Cross was already contained in the Fiat she had uttered to the angel.

Speaking of this totally free acceptance Leo XIII quotes the great sentence of St. Thomas Aquinas according to which at the instant of the Annunciation, God waited for the Virgin to utter the consent of the human race in its entirety; and he adds that in consequence none of that immense treasure of grace and truth which the Lord has brought us is communicated to us apart from Mary. He calls her our Mediatrix with the Mediator.

As we may see, the mystery of the Redemption stands in the Church like a great tree of doctrine which never ceases to flower.



The above article was taken from the book: "The Mary Book".

21 posted on 05/14/2003 10:22:49 AM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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To: Pyro7480
St. Maximilian wrote in Polish, so this may be poorly translated.

Elsewhere St. Maximilian compared Our Lady to a pane of glass and Our Lord to the sun - that while she is a mere creature completely distinct from God (as a pane of glass is distinct from the sun that shines through it) she is so receptive to God's grace that it suffuses her entire being.

This is comparable to the Eastern Orthodox concept of theosis or the divinization of every saint.

It is also the message of St. Paul that "It is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me."

23 posted on 05/14/2003 10:30:56 AM PDT by wideawake (Support our troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
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To: Pyro7480
I ascribe the phrase "wholly divine" to poetic hyperbole. This is somewhat justifiable since Mary never sinned, and is the holiest human being who ever lived. This kind of hyperbole rankles a lot of people, especially non-Catholics. It's the theological equivalent of "my love, my light, my reason for being, my sugar-bunny..." For obvious prudential reasons, this kind of rhetoric should be avoided in apologetics.
37 posted on 05/14/2003 11:21:48 AM PDT by Aquinasfan
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To: Pyro7480
"So at first glance, it seems wrong to call her "so wholly divine." What do you think?"

In a sense it is right to call every Christian divine, because through the sacraments God bestows His very own divine life on us and in us. The sacraments are "the great and precious promises" by which we are made partakers of the divine nature (Sacramentum in Latin literally means oath or promise (str.)):

2 Peter 1:3 "As all things of his divine power which appertain to life and godliness, are given us, through the knowledge of him who hath called us by his own proper glory and virtue.
4 By whom he hath given us most great and precious promises: that by these YOU MAY BE MADE PARTAKERS OF THE DIVINE NATURE: flying the corruption of that concupiscence which is in the world."

The goal of our lives as Catholics is to be transformed more and more into likenesses of Christ by yielding to that divine nature abiding in us. In other words being forever bathed in that justifying and sanctifying grace which transforms us into sons and daughters of God.

Because Mary is without sin, and so put no obstacle in the way of that divine nature, it is quite acceptable to describe her as "wholly divine". Her theosis or divinisation is fully complete. She was and is the perfect spouse of the Holy Spirit. Her motherhood of all believers is a divine motherhood.

As St. Athanasius once said "God became man in order that men might become gods."
39 posted on 05/14/2003 12:32:59 PM PDT by Tantumergo
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To: Pyro7480
Christos Voskrese!

So at first glance, it seems wrong to call her "so wholly divine." What do you think?

I wouldn't worry too much about it - unless speaking with Protestants :-)

Taking into consideration the time and place that he wrote this, I think the context is orthodox. Just like the term "sanctification" is used, the term "deification" used to be used a lot in terms of our final goal in life. That is, to be made godly. In other words, to have a share in the Divine Life of the Blessed Trinity as sons and daughters in the Son. That's what Grace is - the life of Christ (God) in us!

Think of the Preparation of the Gifts in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass where the Priest pours a small amount of holy water into the altar wine before the Consecration. What does he say? (Paraphrase) "Christ shared in our humanity so that we can share in his Divinity". Through Grace, our goal in life to to be made gods! Not in the sense of, say, the Mormons, who teach that they can be individual gods of our their own worlds, or in the sense that we will be the One True God, or even the pantheistic concept of us being part of a "universal soul" or some such. But in the sense that in the Beatific Vision, where we will see God "face to face", we will have a full share in the Divinity of Christ.

Mary, who was conceived without Original Sin (whence humanity fell from and lost the Grace of God in our souls), and was "full of Grace" (a singular title pronounced to her as her name by the archangel Gabriel), and who was Assumed into Heaven and made the Queen-Mother of all Creation as the ever virgin mother of Christ, can then be said to be wholly divine in that sense.

45 posted on 05/14/2003 1:02:04 PM PDT by TotusTuus ( Voistinu Voskrese!)
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To: Pyro7480
My soul rejoices in the Lord My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God, my salvation. For he has shown me such favour - me, his lowly handmaiden. Now all generations will call me blessed, because the mighty one has done great things for me.

His name is holy, his mercy lasts for generation after generation for those who revere him.


He has put forth his strength: he has scattered the proud and conceited, torn princes from their thrones - but lifted up the lowly. He has filled the hungry with good things; the rich he has sent away empty.


He has come to the help of his servant Israel, he has remembered his mercy as he promised to our fathers, to Abraham and his children for ever.


Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end.
55 posted on 05/14/2003 6:30:46 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Pyro7480
A bit about divinity from the Catechism of the Catholic Church that NYer is posting.

52 God, who "dwells in unapproachable light", wants to communicate his own divine life to the men he freely created, in order to adopt them as his sons in his only-begotten Son.3 By revealing himself God wishes to make them capable of responding to him, and of knowing him and of loving him far beyond their own natural capacity.

The divine plan of Revelation is realized simultaneously "by deeds and words which are intrinsically bound up with each other"4 and shed light on each another. It involves a specific divine pedagogy: God communicates himself to man gradually. He prepares him to welcome by stages the supernatural Revelation that is to culminate in the person and mission of the incarnate Word, Jesus Christ.

St. Irenaeus of Lyons repeatedly speaks of this divine pedagogy using the image of God and man becoming accustomed to one another: The Word of God dwelt in man and became the Son of man in order to accustom man to perceive God and to accustom God to dwell in man, according to the Father's pleasure.5

56 posted on 05/14/2003 7:23:01 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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